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Loft plans

Overhaulin63

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Feb 22, 2012
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Akron, Ohio
Hey guys, I am certainly no carpenter or engineer but I would like to put a 16x16 loft in my garage. The garage walls are all 2x6 but I am not sure if I can safely go 16x16 with 2x10 or 2x12 lumber for the floor joist. Can I safely go with just one corner 6x6 post with 2 2x10 or 2x12 stacked from each wall to the notched 6x6 corner post?

I have some heavy stuff on skids like a couple of engine blocks, heads, and crank but probably the heaviest single item will be a 7 HP compressor which I am guessing is a hernia waiting to happen.

Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks!
 
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NitroGarage

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Can you draw us up a diagram of what you're looking to do? Sounds like you are building this into a corner of the garage?

|-------|--------|
|-------|
|-------|
|_____|
|
|
|
|-----------------|

Like that?
 

NitroGarage

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Looks like a 2x12 12" OC will do a 16 foot span, structural grade southern yellow pine. 20psf dead load and 100psf live load.

http://www.awc.org/codes-standards/calculators-software/reversecalc

http://www.southernpine.com/app/uploads/SPtable11_060113.pdf

For the beam - this will be tricky. 4x 2x12's laminated (glued and ring shank nailed) should do it but I'm looking for a load chart.

For the post -

6x6 no2 southern pine post, pressure treated, 8 foot tall un braced will hold 14k lbs so I would look at an 8x8 to get you to 25,9K.

https://courses.cit.cornell.edu/arch264/calculators/example7.1/
 
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Overhaulin63

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Hey Nitro your assumption of the loft layout is correct!

I wasn't planning on 12" OC. Is 12" OC the only way to get the full 16" span with one 8x8 post? Would 16" OC span the 16', but limit my weight capacity or is just not recommended?

Thanks again for all the help guys!!
 

NitroGarage

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Hey Nitro your assumption of the loft layout is correct!

I wasn't planning on 12" OC. Is 12" OC the only way to get the full 16" span with one 8x8 post? Would 16" OC span the 16', but limit my weight capacity or is just not recommended?

Thanks again for all the help guys!!

I was basing this off of a live load of 100 lbs per square foot, or 25600lbs total, plus the dead load which is the weight of the loft itself. Basically if you filled it full of engine blocks, worst case scenario.

You could space it 16 OC and it would limit your weight capacity, but this is just using 2x12's, I haven't spec'd it with engineered lumber, which now going back through a few threads it looks to be the way to go, I'd definitely use it for the load bearing beam that the joists connect to. The other factor is what that beam connects to, is it just a stud in the wall? That's not gonna fly, really. You'll need to bring that load into the foundation with another post.
 
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Overhaulin63

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Thanks Nitro,

I apologize for not being clearer on my weights.

The walls are 2x6 and I was going to put a 6x6 post in the wall where each of the beams would sit and pivot on your suggested 8x8 on the floor. Realistically I would probably a couple of engines (600 lbs. each) in pieces up in the loft with the compressor which I estimate weighs around 600 lbs to. So say 2000 to 2500 lb plus totes and other parts like bumpers or gas tank that for future projects. So maybe 5000 to 6000 lbs plus the weight of the loft itself.

Would stacking 2x12 for the beams be anywhere close to the strength of an LVL?
 

terabitdan

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[I created a spreadsheet to calculate the total load, load per header and per joist. Using 55 lbs per sq foot, your 16x16 loft would support 11,520 lbs.

Double 2x12 for the header and single 2x12 for each joist 12" OC will support it.

I'll attach the calculator if I can figure out how to do it.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Attachments

  • Loft Calculator.zip
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Overhaulin63

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Thanks TerabitDan, unfortunately when I saved it and tried to open it said the folder was empty.

I was able to use the calculator link that Nitro sent and found that Doug Fir 2x12 had enough modules of elasticity to handle the weight and then some if I built it 12" OC.

Thank again guys for all the help. I'll post some pics once we get going.
 
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NitroGarage

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We built a 40' long 10' wide mezanine in our shop, 2x10's 12OC off the wall to the beam, main beam was 4 2x12's laminated together and supported by two 8x8 posts. Beam was bolted to a 2x6 stud and backed up by more 2x6's on each side of that stud. Same thing, engine parts, air compressor room, etc. Pretty sturdy.

We could have put an LVL on it and a single post instead of two but the post would have been right in the center of one of the windows on the sidewall (although 10' away from it, still annoying, so we split the difference).
 

bczygan

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Nitrogarage has some solutions, but lets look at this in some detail.

First a disclaimer. I was never an Architect or Engineer. Just a draftsman and designer. Not registered. So there are some finer aspects of structural design that you should go to those folks for.

What I offer here on GJ is a look into the choices you make to design a structure, so people who don't know anything, can begin to realize that structures need to be engineered, and not to take someone's comment that "We used a couple of 2x12's and it held up fine" as a solution for their own project.

The first thing to consider is the live load that will be placed on this mezzanine. The OP mentioned some engine blocks and a large compressor. I suspect he will also fill up any additional available space. What it will be filled with, I don't know, so we'll make some assumptions. I looked up engine and trans weights on the net. Let's go with 700 pounds for an engine and 300 pounds for a trans. Air compressors of that size weigh in at around 700 pounds. So figure 4 engines and 4 transmissions the compressor and say another 2000 pounds for misc. So a total of 6000 pounds. Loft area is 256SF, so 5000/256 is 24.5#/SF.

A typical residential floor is designed for 40#/SF.

Now these are uniformly distributed loads, and the engines, transmissions and compressor can be more concentrated and point loads. The OP says the engine parts will be on pallets. That helps spread the load. Don't know if the compressor is vertical or horizontal. You can spread the load with an extra layer of floor sheathing that spans more joists. You can also space joists closer together under these loads.

But let's also up the live load from the 40# to say 50#/SF. This gives you a 12,800# total load capacity.

So lets size the joists.

Here's the calculator I use for joists:
http://www.awc.org/codes-standards/calculators-software/spancalc

I use Hem-Fir #2 and better as the species as it's cheap and available. I set the spacing at 16" to begin with and L/360. Dead load at 15#/SF. Let's try 2x12's.

Calculator says 15' 5" span. Actual span will be 15' 7" so close enough. You can also use different species and spacing.

The beam will probably need to be LVL's, so I use this info. Note the 1.9E. That strength is readily available at places like Menards.

parr.com/PDFs/LP LVL 1.9E.pdf

The contributing area for each LF of beam is 8SF times 50#/SF LL. So the beam must support 400#/LF. But it must also support 520#/LF total load. Divide that in half for a double LVL, so 200#LL and 260# total load/LF.

Looking at the charts for floor beams, a 14" deep LVL will support 274#/LF with L/360 and 378#/LF total load, so a double 1 3/4 x 14" deep LVL beam will work.

The other end of the joists need supporting, so a beam needs to do that. It can be a ledger beam, and the span between supports can be less than 16' since it is against a wall. I like to place a support under my ledger beams, in addition to lag bolting them into the studs, so 3 2x4 support posts give an 8' span. You could probably use dimensional lumber or an LVL for this ledger beam. Since this will be a single ply beam, it will need to support a 400#LL/LF and a 520#/LF total load. A 9 1/4" deep LVL will support 624# and 704# respectively. But since it is less deep than a 2x12 joist, it would need to be placed under the joists. Use a rim joist lagged into the studs.

For dimensional lumber use this:
http://www.awc.org/pdf/codes-standards/publications/wsdd/AWC-WSDD1986-ViewOnly-0301.pdf

Use an Fb of 1300 and look for w in the chart under 8' span. A 2x14 will support 594#/LF so you can use it to support the joists with joist hangers. Don't forget the 3 2x4' posts lagged to the wall and used as supports.

A 6x6 corner post will give enough beef to support the double LVL beam let into the side of it. Pay attention to the connection by through bolting with at least 2 bolts through the remaining 2" of the 6x6 in addition to resting the double LVL beam on the post. And also secure the column at the floor.

3/4" T&G ply decking glued and screwed with solid blocking at joints. The other end of the 2ply LVL beam can be supported by 2 or 3 2x4's or 2x6's in the wall. Check out the requirements in the charts.

Understand?

The point of engineering is that you know how much a structure will support along with how much it will deflect under that load. Otherwise you have no idea.

Bill

PS, This is probably over designed for what the OP will use it for. But with a 16' span for the joists, and some possible point loads, it will keep it stiffer. I would probably design mine for a standard 40#/SF LL.
 
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Overhaulin63

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BCCYGAN...wow, you certainly need to be careful what you ask for on this site. You may learn more than you wanted. LOL

Seriously, thank guys I certainly don't want to have any accidents and I hate doing things twice so thanks again for all the insight and recommendations.

I'll send pics.
 

theoldwizard1

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First a disclaimer. I was never an Architect or Engineer. Just a draftsman and designer. Not registered. So there are some finer aspects of structural design that you should go to those folks for.
Plus you probably have 100s more in the experience column !
 

bczygan

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Plus you probably have 100s more in the experience column !

Not all that much experience. Didn't work a long career, but I do like to mess with it. Missed by one year, the chance to get registered without school, by taking the test in NC. Was going to go to NC State. Gropius had just left and I talked to the new guy.

Different guys know different things. Some specialize in hospitals or schools or churches or industrial or commercial.

We had one guy, registered, whose whole career was designing H.C. restrooms. He was good at it and so that's what we had him do at that firm.

I liked to mess with everything, and at one big firm I got tutored with old time guys in electrical, plumbing, HVAC etc. Then I got interested in landscaping, and got to do it because no one wanted to learn the Latin names for plant material. I took a few years of Latin in school. Still have a copy of Hortus Third right by my bed. Worked for builders and always learned a lot from my contractors. Got into estimating and purchasing. Did some ink and pen working for a surveying company. Had some engineering exposure at the Architects I worked for. A lot of Architects do more conceptual work and let the engineers fill in the details, so being able to size some things helped, especially in residential. One place we had an engineer we used for industrial work. We would size the members in a building and take it to him. He was only guy left in a 100 man firm, so we would take it over there, to a big empty office and he would go through the plan and pick out the conditions where we had to upsize a member or where we could save some money by doing something different. He was good at finding unusual conditions we didn't see.
Another thing I got into was designing site work including drainage, utilities and cut and fill calculations. This was before the fancy programs.
And I also got good at planning work where we went for ZBA approvals for appeals. And besides drawing on the board, I got to do some spec writing.
Got to work on different building types but not too many churches, hospitals and schools, but most everything else.

So I guess I got to mess with a lot. It was fun, which is why I still like it. It's a challenge to take a whole bunch of existing conditions, regulatory restrictions, client needs and functions and build a 3 dimensional solution in your head that is a match to the budget. My kind of 3D chess. Not bad for a guy who quit school in the 9th grade.




Bill
 
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bczygan

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BCCYGAN...wow, you certainly need to be careful what you ask for on this site. You may learn more than you wanted. LOL

Seriously, thank guys I certainly don't want to have any accidents and I hate doing things twice so thanks again for all the insight and recommendations.

I'll send pics.

You weren't likely to have a structural failure by undersizing the joists. More likely to have more deflection and a bouncy feeling if you overloaded it in the middle. The beams are where people tend to undersize much more because they are used to dimensional lumber and the solution jn their minds, for every beam, is a couple of 2x12's. Ledger beams and their connections and supports are another place where many people don't know how to size, support and connect. In fact, connections are something else to be careful with. Triangulate wherever possible.

Bill
 
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Overhaulin63

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Akron, Ohio
Thanks Bill

When you say triangulate are you referring to the cross bracing between the joist?
 
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