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Long 30 Amp Run

bad_idea

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I recently bought a 5HP air compressor for my garage, with a rated amp draw of 20 amps or so. Garage is a 30x40x12 detached. I have a 90 amp service running into the garage to a panel. The panel is by the side door closest to the house. I plan to put the compressor on the wall opposite the panel. The run will be ~70' long. My thought is to run 10/2 romex on a 30 amp breaker. Sound good?
 
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Lassen Forge

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Wire size normally is determined by current in Amps, and tolerable voltage drop. Really does not matter the voltage. When discussing Power, than voltage comes into play.

Yeppers, you get better efficiency at a higher voltage for a given wire size... It's been decades since I had to do any electrical math, but roughly I can run double the current at half the voltage through the same size wire... Gak. But it's the voltage that will require the amp draw and if that 10//2 wire is large enough or grossly undersized...
 

ycgoat

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Because I always get called out when posting without looking things up, I went back and looked at some web sites not sure what code cycles, but

120v 5HP needs 56 amps, but a 120v 21 amp circuit can use #10 wire and be under the 3% VD

The NEC 5HP at 230v is 28 amps and #10 wire is still below the 3%VD
 

pattenp

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Need more information about compressor. Is it plug in or it has no cord and it's to be hardwired? Listed HP on motor data plate, not HP shown on marketing label that maybe on the tank.
 

wyliesdiesels

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I recently bought a 5HP air compressor for my garage, with a rated amp draw of 20 amps or so. Garage is a 30x40x12 detached. I have a 90 amp service running into the garage to a panel. The panel is by the side door closest to the house. I plan to put the compressor on the wall opposite the panel. The run will be ~70' long. My thought is to run 10/2 romex on a 30 amp breaker. Sound good?
If it is a true 5HP motor (which it sounds like it is since the FLA is around 20a), it needs #10 THWN in conduit or #8/2 NM-b per code. It will need to be hardwired if you cant find a plug and receptacle rated for 5HP (not many exist). if hardwired, breaker can be max 70a. a local disconnect is required if the breaker panel is not within sight of and more than 50' away from the compressor
 

wyliesdiesels

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Because I always get called out when posting without looking things up, I went back and looked at some web sites not sure what code cycles, but

120v 5HP needs 56 amps, but a 120v 21 amp circuit can use #10 wire and be under the 3% VD

The NEC 5HP at 230v is 28 amps and #10 wire is still below the 3%VD
NEC requires 35a rated wire for a 5hp motor so you need #10 THWN in conduit or #8/2 NM-b
 
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bad_idea

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Thanks wyliediesels. I was hoping you would speak up on this one. It is a Quincy 325 with a 5hp 3PH motor. I'll be installing a VFD on the unit. There will be a local disconnect at the compressor.

Final question - if the NEC calls out 35a wiring, what breaker should I use? I understand you said a 70a breaker max, but what is the minimum I can use? Or more accurately said, what size breaker is most appropriate?

Thanks again.
 

mike93lx

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Thanks wyliediesels. I was hoping you would speak up on this one. It is a Quincy 325 with a 5hp 3PH motor. I'll be installing a VFD on the unit. There will be a local disconnect at the compressor.

Final question - if the NEC calls out 35a wiring, what breaker should I use? I understand you said a 70a breaker max, but what is the minimum I can use? Or more accurately said, what size breaker is most appropriate?

Thanks again.
You can't only mention 3 phase at this point.

That changes things since you need to supply the VFD and the motor.

I would find out what the rated draw of the VFD is in that application. Then share that info
 
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alfredeneuman

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I'll be installing a VFD on the unit. There will be a local disconnect at the compressor.
Don't install the disconnect between the VFD and the compressor. Install it before the VFD
When shut off between the motor and the VFD suddenly, the VFD will do damage to its output transistors.
The effect is cumulative, and will greatly reduce the life of the VFD.
 
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justsam

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Odd voltages, 117V was the rating of old Japanese electronics, back in the days when made in Japan meant the same thing as made in China does today.
I am not so sure Tung-Sol, RCA, Sylvania, etc. would like their vacuum tubes of the era considered "Japanese Electronics". Some electronic designs of the era used line voltage filament tubes. All this family of tubes had a prefix of 117 such as 1117L7. Common radios of the day used the "all American Five tube line up, which had filaments of 12, 35, 50 VAC, etc. The idea was to string filaments in series to equal 117VAC, thus negating the need for a step down filament transformer. This of course was an era where US line voltage was 110VAC. The 117 gave a little margin to prevent blowing out tube filaments in high line voltage areas. Repair drawings typically showed 117VAC as the input voltage and designated trouble shooting voltages were based on 117VAC input.
 

wyliesdiesels

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Thanks wyliediesels. I was hoping you would speak up on this one. It is a Quincy 325 with a 5hp 3PH motor. I'll be installing a VFD on the unit. There will be a local disconnect at the compressor.

Final question - if the NEC calls out 35a wiring, what breaker should I use? I understand you said a 70a breaker max, but what is the minimum I can use? Or more accurately said, what size breaker is most appropriate?

Thanks again.
ummm the 3phase totally changes things here. why wasnt this mentioned in the beginning? the wire size is gonna be different than normal

BTW the amp draw for a 3Ø 5HP motor should be around 10-12a NOT 20+... the FLC table amps are listed as 15.2a
 
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KenC

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ummm the 3phase totally changes things here. why wasnt this mentioned in the beginning? the wire size is gonna be different than normal

BTW the amp draw for a 3Ø 5HP motor should be around 10-12a NOT 20+... the FLC table amps are listed as 15.2a
Yep, I did the math several years ago when I installed my 5hp, 240v, 3ph compressor. Running for years on 12ga THHN. About 50 feet of wire run.
 

justsam

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Doubling the voltage will cut the voltage drop figure in half
True, because typically a dual voltage motor, 120/240 will draw half the current at 240, as opposed to 120. Voltage drop is a function of IxR, current times resistance, of the wire in this case. Electrical power will be the same in both cases, eg, a motor drawing 20 running Amps at 120 might also be wired to operate at 240 volts and draw 10 running Amps. Power is 2400 watts either way. Wiring needs to be based on current draw and of course as mentioned, motors are special case due to start up current.
 
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bad_idea

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ummm the 3phase totally changes things here. why wasnt this mentioned in the beginning? the wire size is gonna be different than normal

BTW the amp draw for a 3Ø 5HP motor should be around 10-12a NOT 20+... the FLC table amps are listed as 15.2a

I didn't realize it made all that much of a difference. The motor is rated to pull 14.2 amps at 230v 3PH, I was mistaken.

Plan to use this VFD: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B077KSN4C5/?tag=atomicindus08-20

I do not see the amp draw of the VFD by itself. Not sure what the typical amp draw is when converting from single phase to 3 phase. For clarification - this is in my residential detached garage with single phase service.


Motor Data Plate.jpg
 

Norcal

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I didn't realize it made all that much of a difference. The motor is rated to pull 14.2 amps at 230v 3PH, I was mistaken.

Plan to use this VFD: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B077KSN4C5/?tag=atomicindus08-20

I do not see the amp draw of the VFD by itself. Not sure what the typical amp draw is when converting from single phase to 3 phase. For clarification - this is in my residential detached garage with single phase service.


Motor Data Plate.jpg
My question, would you buy a Yugo automobile? Huanyang VFD's have a horrible reputation, so bad that the Practical Machinist forum bans them from any discussion on that forum.

 

ycgoat

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Do you have 3 phase power? You may want to call a VFD supplier to ensure you get what you need, then size the circuit from there. For a 5 HP motor using a VFD for phase conversion may bump up the power requirements.
 

wyliesdiesels

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Do you have 3 phase power? You may want to call a VFD supplier to ensure you get what you need, then size the circuit from there. For a 5 HP motor using a VFD for phase conversion may bump up the power requirements.
in post #23 above he said he has single phase power
 
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bad_idea

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My question, would you buy a Yugo automobile? Huanyang VFD's have a horrible reputation, so bad that the Practical Machinist forum bans them from any discussion on that forum.

If I could find a Yugo, I would buy it. They truly are an amusing car.

BUT... in regards to the VFD, I know this is a 'get what you pay for' situation. I'm going to run a cheap VFD, as a quality runs 5-10x the cost.
 

Norcal

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If I could find a Yugo, I would buy it. They truly are an amusing car.

BUT... in regards to the VFD, I know this is a 'get what you pay for' situation. I'm going to run a cheap VFD, as a quality runs 5-10x the cost.
Might shop around, buying the cheapest garbage may end up costing a whole lot more, when wanting VFD's for phase conversion, only ended up paying more then I wanted to because needed one with a NEMA type 4X enclosure & they are more expensive then a NEMA type 1, the others I stumbled on deals, they were discontinued GE/Fuji drives.
 
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