Long nail punch?

[bluedog225]

I’m having a hard time driving nails into metal Simpson hangers at the right angle joint where the hanger turns. Some of the holes are 1/4” or so from the turned up metal edge. It can be challenging to get a hammer in there.

I thought I’d ask if there is a tool for this situation. That is, driving nails in hard to reach corners. Something like a 12” punch with a hollow ground head (to accept the nail head) would do the trick. Or a sleeve that would hold it on task then slide away as the nail drives home.

Not finding it with some basic google. Thought you guys might know.

Thanks

 

[PCustoms]

Plenty of drifts, chisels and punches out there.

I've never seen one setup as a nail punch with a hollow at the top (big enough for structural nails).

Have you tried hanger screws and a right angle drive like everyone suggested in your other thread?

 

[dutchgray]

Never seen what you're asking for but I have made long nail punches out of SDS chisels before for the purpose, I do them on the lathe but you could grind them with a bench grinder with the chisel chucked in drill to spin it against the wheel, as long as you were careful and regularly cooled with water.

 

[bluedog225]

Plenty of drifts, chisels and punches out there.

I've never seen one setup as a nail punch with a hollow at the top (big enough for structural nails).

Have you tried hanger screws and a right angle drive like everyone suggested in your other thread?

While I’m a big fan of the hanger screws and the big SDS screws, some of these Simpson hangers only specify nails. That is, if you want to achieve the rated capacity for the hanger.

and the Simpson engineers are clear that one should not mix fastener types.

 

[lardy1]

I'm not sure what your clearance issues are so I can't directly address it but it brings to mind my time in the cabinet shop. They had a semi long punch that was magnetized. We used it regularly to install the pilaster nails without smashing our fingers. If that concept could apply to your clearance issue I'm pretty sure you could either find or devise something.

 

[Firstram]

Pea shooter Amazon

Or a palm nailer if you have enough compressor

 

[wssix99]

Go get a cheap palm nailer and you are done. It was a life-changer for me the last time I did a bunch of decks, particularly compared to the way we had to deal with this stuff in the old days...

 

[Beerhippie]

Yep, palm nailer is the way to go with the little Tico nails and tight spaces.

 

[bluedog225]

I’ll pull out the palm nailer again and give it a shot. As I recall, it was having to drive the nails in at a pretty extreme angle given the geometry involved.

 

[PCustoms]

I’ll pull out the palm nailer again and give it a shot. As I recall, it was having to drive the nails in at a pretty extreme angle given the geometry involved.

Curious how the long punch avoids the extreme angle, wouldn't it be worse?

 

[Lassen Forge]

Every time I landed a punch with long nails, I cut my own palms up... worse after I got those stainless steel tips. They DID look sharp, tho!

 

[PCustoms]

Taken from OP other thread

 

[whateg01]

Pea shooter Amazon

Or a palm nailer if you have enough compressor

Go get a cheap palm nailer and you are done. It was a life-changer for me the last time I did a bunch of decks, particularly compared to the way we had to deal with this stuff in the old days...

Yep, palm nailer is the way to go with the little Tico nails and tight spaces.

If I'm understanding the problem,I don't see how a huge palm nailer is going to help in any way. You'd have to drive the nails at a 45 to get the palm nailer into the corner.

 

[bluedog225]

That’s not the pic of the current thread. That pic presents a different though similar issue.

Though it is example of the right angle corners that are difficult with a claw hammer.

I believe the angle will be less severe if I pulled the striking surface back 12” or 16”. No?

 

[bwringer]

There are cordless palm nailers as well, and a few in a form factor sort of like a right angle drill:

https://www.amazon.com/Brushless-Hammer-Including-Battery-Charger-AH6552A-11/dp/B0DMVW1GRY?tag=atomicindus08-20

I've also installed nails in bad situations by putting a sturdy steel bar on top, then supporting the other end of the bar and whacking the bar as close to the nail as possible. Janky, but it can be a workable way to transfer nailing force sideways underneath something.

As others have said, a regular old punch, perhaps with the tip lopped off so it's wider, and magnetized, might do the trick. It's really hard to say without a good look at the entire situation.

 

[PCustoms]

That’s not the pic of the current thread. That pic presents a different though similar issue.

Though it is the close to the right angle nails that are difficult with a claw hammer.

I believe the angle will be less severe if I pulled the striking surface back 12” or 16”. No?

Do you have a current pic?

For the record I copied that from a thread you started on 12/25/24...

 

[Leaflessshadetree]

Maybe you could find or make something similar to a trim nail punch but for larger hanger nails.

https://www.zoro.com/malco-trim-nail-punch-heavy-duty-blue-8-in-tnp2s/i/G2064876/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=surfaces&utm_campaign=shopping%20feed&utm_content=free%20google%20shopping%20clicks&campaignid=21430537883&productid=G2064876&v=&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQiAj9m7BhD1ARIsANsIIvBx7Rs3GfT7-LLY7I4DVL35UFYiFTHrljaBgnBYlJjZHSnlY6TtoHgaAtYGEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

[SwissMetric]

Maybe a rivet setter ("Nietzieher") or rivet header ("Nietkopfsetzer") can be used though the ones I know are only 100 to 130 mm (appr. 4 to 5") long. They can be used for various purposes, not only related to rivets.

For example, see page 54 of the Rennsteig PDF catalog as example, I mention them as I know them but I'm not related to Rennsteig nor their resellers. There are probably many manufacturers. A search engine can be used as I don't know if catalog links can be mentioned.
BTW The parallel pin punches with guide sleeve (page 41) and the screw extractors (page 61) are beside the marking exactly the same as the Stahlwille as Rennsteg is the original manufacturer, the Stahlwille are just heavily overpriced.

 

[Miss the Pontiacs]

palm nailer - Google Search

 

[danski0224]

Malco (sheet metal and siding tools) has a couple of sleeved nail setting tools.

Might want to look at those.

There are also positive placement pneumatic nailers made to install joist hanger fasteners.

 

[AEAdam]

Malco (sheet metal and siding tools) has a couple of sleeved nail setting tools.

Might want to look at those.

There are also positive placement pneumatic nailers made to install joist hanger fasteners.

I just bought the MPT Hitachi one and returned it. I couldn't get it to sink Simpson nails. Last time I read the Simpson instructions their screws were good enough. I think the hangers are rated for more than the joints require. I could be wrong. Regardless, I rarely nail them,

Tying a couple threads together. GJ peer pressure forced me to buy a bit ratchet. I chose the Klein and immediately disassembled it to lube it properly. (It's unsealed I just oiled with Starrett Instrument Oil and put it back together). Anyway, in the last 2 days this thing has totally saved my *** 2 times.


I was forced to put these 2 joists pretty close together. Thinking about buying the Milwaukee right angle impact driver because this wasn't fun and I will have several more of these.

 

[Beerhippie]

I didn't know that Simpson had a rated screw for hangers. Bravo!

I can't help but look back at Tico nails with fear and loathing... and remembering just how long it takes a black, mashed fingernail to fall off.

 

[bluedog225]

Ha! I’ve got a fingernail split right down the middle nailing these stupid things, all the way into the base. Trying to decide better superglue or epoxy.

 

[Beerhippie]

Tip--if you want to keep the tip (of your finger): It does much less damage when you hit a finger lying flat than one on edge. Hold the nail between the first and second fingers, but with the fingers flat to the surface.

Maybe I need some pictures to make this clear... also the way to start short roofing nails.

 

[Beerhippie]

There we go... I used a 1/2" shank screw as I have no nails in the shop and I'm not walking 20 yards through a 36 degree snowstorm to the container to get one. You'll get the idea:



That's gonna hurt a LOT.



That's gonna hurt less.

 

[AEAdam]

If you insist on hand nailing, buy air nails. Twist the first nail in the row 90degrees. The paper will hold the nail pretty well allowing g you to hammer with touching the nail with your hands. You need to buy Simpson hanger nails and there are a couple different sizes.

 

[AEAdam]

While I’m a big fan of the hanger screws and the big SDS screws, some of these Simpson hangers only specify nails. That is, if you want to achieve the rated capacity for the hanger.

and the Simpson engineers are clear that one should not mix fastener types.

I was right. The SD connectors do not reduce the capability of the hanger. They are actually stronger.

Strong-Drive® SD CONNECTOR Screw

Specifically designed to replace nails in many popular Simpson Strong‑Tie connectors, these screws are easier and more convenient to install than nails in certain applications.

www.strongtie.com

This is what I use, what you see in the picture I posted earlier.

 

[AEAdam]

There we go... I used a 1/2" shank screw as I have no nails in the shop and I'm not walking 20 yards through a 36 degree snowstorm to the container to get one. You'll get the idea:



That's gonna hurt a LOT.



That's gonna hurt less.

This works great for face nailing, flooring, wall board etc. For joist hangers it’s a bit Marie Antoinette. You sorta have to picture where we are working from to understand specifically why this doesn’t work.

The solution to this OPs problem is to read the Simpson catalog more thoroughly then buy a box of SD connectors. OP: for std duty hangers using single 2X material, you will need 1-1/2” #9s for the faces and 2-1/2” #9s for the toe nails. Bigger diameter screws are required for the heavier duty hangers.

If your flange faces bank against double 2X, I always use the longer screws to catch both boards

 

[danski0224]

Thinking about buying the Milwaukee right angle impact driver

Almost any 90º drill adapter will work for that, unless you just want to buy a whole 90º drill.

 

[bluedog225]

The solution to this OPs problem is to read the Simpson catalog more thoroughly then buy a box of SD connectors. OP: for std duty hangers using single 2X material, you will need 1-1/2” #9s for the faces and 2-1/2” #9s for the toe nails. Bigger diameter screws are required for the heavier duty hangers.

The screws can replace nails in certain applications. Does your more careful reading give you a reason to believe they can be used here? I’d appreciate a cite. Thanks

 

[PCustoms]

The screws can replace nails in certain applications. Does your more careful reading give you a reason to believe they can be used here? I’d appreciate a cite. Thanks

What's the pn on your specific hanger again?

 

[bluedog225]

Not sure what you mean. The one I posted above is the specific hanger.

 

[PCustoms]

Not sure what you mean. The one I posted above is the specific hanger.

There's 5 different hangers in that general sheet.

I copied one from your other thread, and you said that's not the one.

So what is the series and size on the hanger(s) you are trying to fix?

Edit: for example, for the LUS28

 

[AEAdam]

I think you got the right answer. Not trying to be snarky. If you are doing structural work, an engineer or architect will know where to look. When I first started building, the acceptable screw substitution section was in the screw specs, not the hangers section. So look there but have a read thru the whole thing brother.




I took this picture 1 minute ago. It’s 30F here in SE PA. One GJ member once accused me of writing stuff I knew nothing about and I never used my tools. I was really offended by that. I build and fix stuff almost constantly. If I sounded like an *** earlier, give me another chance and be sure to ask. I know stuff because I actually do stuff. GJ is sorta my fishpond. This is all I am.

Good luck

 

[bluedog225]

Those paper tapes are interesting. Have not seen that before.

The hanger is the HGUS 412. What I said was the pic from the other thread presents a different though similar issue. That is, the other thread was about access. The hanger is the same.

I don’t think the screws are specified or allowed. Or maybe the little Simpson specs have not been updated to include using them yet.

 

[AEAdam]

Those paper tapes are interesting. Have not seen that before.

The hanger is the HGUS 412. What I said was the pic from the other thread presents a different though similar issue. That is, the other thread was about access. The hanger is the same.

I don’t think the screws are specified or allowed. Or maybe the little Simpson specs have not been updated to include using them yet.

Ok. Again. Read the Simpson catalog, not a vendor repost of one little section. I’m sure you will be fine and I don’t think you have building inspectors in Texas. But why make it harder on yourself. Here’s the link again to the screws you need.

Strong-Drive® SD CONNECTOR Screw

Specifically designed to replace nails in many popular Simpson Strong‑Tie connectors, these screws are easier and more convenient to install than nails in certain applications.

www.strongtie.com

Read it all. It’s kinda specific

The nails in the picture above are Simpson connector nails for a pneumatic nailer.

 

[bluedog225]

Again, I’ve read it. The vendor blurb was for PC. And I agree, it’s probably fine. The screws seem to be designed to equal or exceed the holding power of the nails. Though they are not mentioned on the HGUS page of the Simpson catalog. Thanks for the input.

 

[PCustoms]

Hgus is for gluelams, right?

I wonder if there's any issues with the screws on them.

 

[KnurledNut]

SST does not give a definitive substitution on their schedule for screw approved connectors for the HGUS.
It may be best to give them a call and ask one of their engineers.
It could have to do with the double shear connection.

Also if screws are used, predrilling is not required but allowed and may be necessary in certain applications.
The general notes have this to say:

1. A fastener that splits the wood will not take the design load. Evaluate splits to determine if the connection will perform as required. Dry wood may split more easily and should be evaluated as required. If wood tends to split, consider pre-boring holes with diameters not exceeding 0.75 of the nail diameter (2015/ 2018 NDS 12.1.5.3). Use a 5⁄32" bit for Strong-Drive® SDS Heavy-Duty Connector screws and a 3/32" bit for Strong-Drive SD9/SD10 Connector screws.

Regarding the OP's original question, @bluedog225 have you tried predrilling the holes for the nails? That may help tremendously. I have used a wide variety of hangers over the years and understand the frustration. SST makes great connectors, but they are only as good as the installation.

 

[bluedog225]

Thanks for the additional detail @KnurledNut. I did try predrilling a while back. It did help on the accessible holes but similar problem getting the drill bit in that close to where the metal takes the right angle turn.

I recall being annoyed that 75% of 0.162 was just small enough that a 1/8” drill bit was too large by a tiny amount.