Looking for a 3/8 drive, sqare nut socket

[mikew13]

Not able to post for a few days due to restriction.

I wish people would respect my wishes for no eight point suggestions. I apologize for that but I don't want to see a page full of eight point suggestions when I am really looking for four point, and I felt I was far from the answer.

A 12 point 5/8 socket can be turned 1/8 rotation in either direction.

Because of the comments I saw, I won't reveal my workplace.

To the poster that posted the Apex pipe socket, thank you very very much, and that was exactly the answer I was looking for.

This is meant for a 1921 Davis and Furber carding machine. The section of rollers in question may be either 1914 or 1916. There is a 1914 Bramwell Feeder on it. A unified thread standard wasn't adopted by Congress until about 1918. So its possible that some of the threads may be whitworth.

Originated from this place in MA:
http://www.eastmillnorthandover.com/

A stubby crescent is used to tighten due to the lack of space between rollers, but a overhead socket is easier to use with this section of rollers. Thread feels worn so care must be taken not to over tighten.

Actual Carding Machine

Same type of machine

I have these but I don't like to loan tools to work. Too much stuff lost by others and unintended use of tools and equipment. If I really had to use these, then I would.

My reasons for no 8 point

A) Not my machine, Boss specifies the correct tools.
B) Very tempermental machine
C) Parts are very difficult to obtain so I believe in using the correct tools intended for this machine.

 

[TwoInch]

what is the reason for 3/8ths drive being correct tool for the job, but 1/2 drive not being correct? that is the question.

 

[TwoInch]

i understand what you are saying. although i still dont agree that an 8pt is not the correct tool. same thing as saying a 12pt is not correct for a hex nut. the way the socket contacts the fastener is no different, only a small portion of the socket face closest to the corner ever contacts, on both a square, or 8pt. same with a 6pt or 12pt socket, or wrench.

after looking at my 8pts, i would bet they bite further in on the fastener face than a square would. they have a slight "flank drive" type flare to the inverted "squares"... i guarantee they would have a better bite than those true square wrenches in the pictures in the above post.

 

[TwoInch]

and i understand "the correct tool for the job" in your world is a square. nut this is still a public forum, and not a single person here is in a place where they can not learn from others. and for future reference, if you post on a public forum, you will get opinions. period, plain and simple. take what you want from them, and ignore the rest, but you will never get exactly what you want from every single person out there. and having a snobbish attitude will surely cause people to be much less willing to put forth any effort in helping you.

if you can use a stubby crescent wrench on them, contacting two points on the fastener.... well.... again, i dont see the point to any of this.

 

[mikew13]

what is the reason for 3/8ths drive being correct tool for the job, but 1/2 drive not being correct? that is the question.

The threads give the feeling that they are sensitive to being overtightened.

At the this point, NOBODY knows what the threads are tapped for, but I feel care must be taken not to overtighten otherwise it would be a headache if it turned out to be a different tap than you can find in stores.

 

[mikew13]

and i understand "the correct tool for the job" in your world is a square. nut this is still a public forum, and not a single person here is in a place where they can not learn from others. and for future reference, if you post on a public forum, you will get opinions. period, plain and simple. take what you want from them, and ignore the rest, but you will never get exactly what you want from every single person out there. and having a snobbish attitude will surely cause people to be much less willing to put forth any effort in helping you.

if you can use a stubby crescent wrench on them, contacting two points on the fastener.... well.... again, i dont see the point to any of this.

It is still difficult to tighten due to lack of clearance between brackets even with a stubby crescent. A socket is better in this case.

 

[mikew13]

mikew13,
The only place I have seen these sockets and I believe they were 3/8" drive was:
www.mrotools.com . The brand name was apex, I haven't been to the website in a long time and I am using my android phone to post this on my break. People were trying to be helpful, but alot of people don't know that the SAE has a square nut standard and it differs slightly from the square nuts used in the utility industry! I helped a neighbor work on his old cornbinder and that's where he got his sockets. By the way,BB767 in his Restored 1930's Auto Shop post has multiple pictures of his restored Rotary lift and the square nuts used on that old lift are I believe SAE square nuts. As you know an 8pt will strip these hard to find nuts!

Correct answer here!

 

[TwoInch]

The threads give the feeling that they are sensitive to being overtightened.

At the this point, NOBODY knows what the threads are tapped for, but I feel care must be taken not to overtighten otherwise it would be a headache if it turned out to be a different tap than you can find in stores.

hmmm... i get what you are saying. but if over tightening is the issue, then using an 8pt would not be an issue at all if they are being tightened to light torque settings. as for 1/2 and 3/8s drives... seems like maybe a light torque spec should be made by whoever is doing maintenance on this machinery, followed religiously, with a torque wrench. i understand you dont know what the torque value should be, but you sure could come up with something on the light side, which would be better than using a 3/8ths as opposed to 1/2 drive as the determining factor when it comes to torque applied to the fasteners.

 

[TwoInch]

It is still difficult to tighten due to lack of clearance between brackets even with a stubby crescent. A socket is better in this case.

i understood this. what i was implying was that id you have been using two contact points on the fastener so far, and no ill effects, than the 8pt is miles ahead in contact quality. and i truly believe the 8pt will contact better than the true square that you are looking for. i would like to point out that you have admitted that you are trying to limit torque applied to the threads, so im assuming that the best possible contact with the fastener is not even truly necessary, but still obviously preferred.

like i said, i understand you are looking for a specific square tool. but i think there are better options. just like in hex fasteners, a true hex socket, or wrench IS NOT the best tool for the job, as they contact extremely close to the corner of the fastener. hence why 6pt sockets and wrenches that are of any quality, are not true hexs. same for the 8pt sockets, they are a better choice(IMO), as they bite further in on the square fastener than any square ever could.

again, since the light torque you are wanting to apply, all irrelevant.

 

[back2class]

Why waste your breath. People are odd creatures and if the OP has an emotional need to use a 4pt. socket you can't convince him otherwise. Much like releigon and politics. I have a Apex set like Mrotools sells and while 8pt would be the better tool (why 4pt is obsolete in sockets) I would be happy to sell it for $60 when Ryan restores my selling privileges.

 

[2oolhound]

I say get the vernier's out and measure those nuts. It doesn't sound like they are sae. Bolt heads manufactured specifications are .488 th to .500 th across the flats on 1/2 head bolts. They very well could be whitworth if that's an English machine.

warmpancakes that's a nice set of Hinsdale sockets you have there! Thanks for posting.

 

[Dustball]

The drive size has nothing to do with the amount of torque applied to the fastener. 20 ft-lbs on a 3/8 inch drive is the same as 20 ft-lbs on a 1/2 inch drive and is the same as 20 ft-lbs on a 3/8" wrench using a 3/8 to 1/2" adapter.

 

[warmpancakes]

warmpancakes that's a nice set of Hinsdale sockets you have there! Thanks for posting.

Thanks I rarely use them but when I need them they are handy as heck, for brass plus in engine blocks 8 points will round the brass

 

[bob15]

Wright Tool 3316 is basically a 4 point with ever so slightly indents on the flats.

Torque is torque, no matter what drive you use or if it has 4 or 8 points (even if used on soft metals). Twenty foot pounds is twenty foot pound, no matter if it is 1/4" drive or 3/4" drive. I used to work on ag tractors for a live and still own a couple antique tractors (1948 Deere B & 1949 Case VAC) and have never had any issues using 8 point sockets.


bob

 

[BigTJ]

Man, some fella's really like 8-points.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

The drive size doesn't matter, if you want a 3/8 and all you can find is 1/2 drive, take an adapter and stick it in it and if necessary tack weld it to the socket, presto, a 3/8 drive. No clearance? again, not really and issue, use the nearly flush adapter. Originally they were made by Starr, but Starr appears to be out of business, and now Gray Tools markets them. If you have some concern about limiting torque, you should consider a short handled "production" type torque wrench that cannot easily be changed by the operator. Requires someone with a basic calibration checker to test and set it. I have several of these made by Sturtevant Richmont designed for removable heads. You get a adapter for the head, and weld your extension, sockets, whatever to it, and set it up and hand it to someone and tell them to never tighten past the click. Thus, for goofballs with no feel, practically any one can use it since you can set it as low as needed.

Personally, I think you should take the time, while the machine is shut down, to use calipers or mic and measure the nut, carefully, both ways, across the flats, and diagonally for that matter. If you can, remove the nut and use thread gauges and various measuring devices to measure the top and bottom of the thread, the pitch, and you may be able to determine the angle of the thread cut, it varies, certainly would have back then. If something ever does happen, you will have documentation to reproduce the part. Any good machinist could do that rather easily.

Charles

 

[NoahG]

I have a full set of Hinsdale made ones

Old thread, I know, but that is a beautiful 4 point socket set.


I found this thread while Googling 4 point sockets.

 

[rlebroke51]

as already posted the are pipe/plug sockets, any tool truck should have them only ones ive seen are 3/8 drive. I have a few.

 

[warmpancakes]

Old thread, I know, but that is a beautiful 4 point socket set.


I found this thread while Googling 4 point sockets.

Thanks I havent used them once since this thread was started less and less people are using male fittings on blocks mostly allen plugs now

 

[Jim C.]

I have a full set of Hinsdale made ones

Rarely use them but they are great when dealing with pipe plugs stuck in engine blocks or, old gas pipe

If you ever decide to part with that set of sockets, PM me for the first shot at them!!

Jim C.

 

[Jim C.]

I have a full set of Hinsdale made ones

Rarely use them but they are great when dealing with pipe plugs stuck in engine blocks or, old gas pipe

Hi Warmpancakes,

I sent you a couple PMs regarding the sockets. Thanks.

Jim C.