Looking for a bargain Mig

[Cheap5.0]

Ive been scouring craigslist for the past 3 months daily looking for a nicely used miller/lincoln/hobart/esab/etc...

Ive seen a lot of older Millers for sale (like a 35 for example), and some hobarts. It has me wondering if i should include them in my search? Ive written them off just because of how old they are, but maybe im wrong?

Am i missing any other "bargains" out there as far as migs go?

 

[tyndall]

Northern Tool 135.

 

[crewchief888]

i wouldnt rule out any name brand older mig as long as i could try it out before purchasing.
personally i'd steer clear of any older offshore units, sometimes it's just too hard to get replacement (hard) parts.

just my $0.02

 

[Cheap5.0]

So even those miller 35's i see occasionally, even being from the 70's are still worth the usual asking price of around $600-800?

What about the power source and separate wire feed setups i see? Are they still relavant for the right price?

 

[Tarheelgarage]

Northern Tool 135.

Great mig; goes on sale a lot.

 

[sberry]

What are you intending to do? They are very reasonable new, very little markup on welders, very competitive market. If I didn't need every bell and gadget would be looking at a Hobart 210 and there is a reason you do not see the add list littered with them. People that buy them like them and keep them a long time.

 

[Cheap5.0]

I like to stick things together and give them to my mom for her gardens (the yuppys call it lawn art), auto work, and i plan on putting together some goofy **** before i die. I doubt ill ever go over 3/16-1/4", but ive learned to get as much welder the first time around. I do have a lincoln tombstone to do heavy stuff if i ever need to.

The new Hobarts are still solid machines? I did a quick search and someone on ebay has a new HH210 for $860 shipped. But welding mart also has the Esab 200's for $780sh shipped...and i really like the esabs lightweight and Qset feature.

Im really lost when it comes to features, but the Qset sounds nicer than the MM's auto set feature.

Of course, will I (as a amateur, low hour welder) even notice the difference or benefits? Probably not.

 

[RangerDaleXp]

Northern Tool 135.

 

[Cheap5.0]

Found a Esab MM 250 w/ 2 guns and 10 lbs spool of wire that looks like new (owner says used twice) for $1000 right down the road from me.

250 amps is overkill for me, but having 22 voltage taps is nice. I would need to buy a regulator and gas hose + cylinder rental or purchase.

Any input on this?

 

[22lover]

I have a Hobart Handler 140 and it is a great little 110V welder as long as you know its limitations. 3/16" is no problem, but if you are just sticking stuff together for lawn art you don't even need the 140.

I've done even 1/4" with mine without a problem, but it wouldn't be my first choice if I was regularly welding that thickness. Then again, I'm not building skyscrapers or bridges.

Where it excels in every respect is car bodywork.

 

[Jack Olsen]

You can get a Hobart Handler 140 for $500. I had one and loved it. Very nice little welder.

 

[sberry]

The new Hobarts are super, they really worked on the arc. I am not familiar with all the ESAB models but they are premium. As for a 140 being plenty of machine or overkill just not so. A 120V circuit is just plain a poor power source for welding period, the advent of the inverter has made a difference but a 210 is twice the machine of a 140 and a noticeable difference, one main reason it will run a 030 wire well.
The 230V 200A wire feed was invented for this crowd, a passable 1/4 machine for limited amounts, they are so handy I have 2, ha. But a Esab 250 is certainly a better machine, there are probably rare cases a guy in your position might be able to take advantage of that but this is likely a 1 gas type, one wire shop, I could make it with a compact too.

 

[Cheap5.0]

The new Hobarts are super, they really worked on the arc. I am not familiar with all the ESAB models but they are premium. As for a 140 being plenty of machine or overkill just not so. A 120V circuit is just plain a poor power source for welding period, the advent of the inverter has made a difference but a 210 is twice the machine of a 140 and a noticeable difference, one main reason it will run a 030 wire well.
The 230V 200A wire feed was invented for this crowd, a passable 1/4 machine for limited amounts, they are so handy I have 2, ha. But a Esab 250 is certainly a better machine, there are probably rare cases a guy in your position might be able to take advantage of that but this is likely a 1 gas type, one wire shop, I could make it with a compact too.

I like the idea of the Esab 250 because i want to build some power lifting/strong man stuff (another hobby). Its hard to find equipment that isnt total **** locally. You can find good stuff online, but it all ships via truck so it gets expensive quick. Being able to build my own cage, farmers, yokes, etc...would be awesome.

For the most part, that stuff is all 6 mm but some of it goes up too 12mm. That 250 would handle the 12 mm very well.

My concern is parts availability in 10 years. I know Esab is a big company on a global scale, but there is very little representation here in the states. What if they completely pull out of the US like some other company's have? Ill have to ship in parts from EU. Is that likely?

Also why is the Esab 250 $1000 used when a comparable Lincoln/miller 250 is easily double or tripple that?

 

[Cheap5.0]

I know im looking like the biggest Esab fanboy, but i promise im not hunting for them

These inverters Esab makes, what would the downside be?

Like this one?

http://www.bakersgas.com/ESA0558101320.html

It has 100% duty @ 100 amp, 35% @ 150 amps. There is place that has them for $470 shipped from a dealer/new with warranty.

 

[sberry]

The esab is a quality unit, there is stuff, service for them, they are a major player in Europe and world wide like Lincoln. It wouldn't scare me and look at a piece of **** TV in comparison, you worry about 10 yrs? You cant run it hard enough to wear out a liner if you are not full time behind the hood. Thats probably a deal, ask Dan or Scott on Hobart, they own a couple as well as a couple other highly qualified tester types.

Reason I mention the Hobart is couple fold. First, value, price and not shorted on quality by any means especially for this market. In fact they got the IM230 which is a super unit for those who want to step out of a compact, run larger and bigger spools of wire, especially if labor costs are any kind of factor, sounds like a moot issue here but thats the score.

Back to the Hobart compact, they had you guys picture on the wall as a poster child when they design this class of machine. Great for marginal electric service, good with cords if needed, running 230 is no kind of drawback, its a plus, lets you **** twice the current (watts) from the wall. 030 wire is so much better than this little fishing line 023 for all but continuous auto body. They sweeten the spot in particular for this.

The gadgets are sales tactics, the fundamentals are the same, auto set has no interest for me. I am not so fussy that I actually like taps, so much easier to use the repeat settings without having to tune the thing at most every turn. In my case I could probably out tune the auto set anyway if I gave a ****.

Again reason I mention all this is that if a suitable solution is needed for most problems this crowd encounters and they don't want to fuss shop there is absolutely no shame or regret needed about marching right down with the charge card and snagging up one of these. Hobart 190-210, can be found on sale and promotional on a regular basis with very little effort, they work so well and have great warranty vendors feel confident in selling these on extremely slim margins, mainly in hopes of accy and consumable biz in the future.

This unit with spool gun has pretty much replaced tig in my shop.

 

[Cheap5.0]

Thanks for the lengthy talk, thats some internet gold right there.

Dont think all this is going in one ear and out the other, it isnt. Its just that the Esab @ 470 landed is a real good deal. I seen on weldingweb.com that the Esab rep actually said it tops out @ 180 amps but for marketing purposes they say 160 amps to help draw the line between the 160 and 200.

Ill spend the next night or two reading up on inverter welders....

I emailed toolking.com asking if they knew when they were going to get more of the refurbished HH 187s in. They quickly responded (under 20 minutes) and said that that item is discontinued, and it will probably be awhile before the HH 190's come in refurb'd condition.

Right now:

Esab 160 inverter = $470.00
HH 190 (@ TSC) = $688.99
Used stuff on CL = ???


edit: After reading the Esab manual a bit, it says its "optimized" for .030 wire. Im assuming that means dont run anything else in it right?

If so, what does that mean for me? I know larger diameter allows more current to flow, which allows greater penetration. But how is .030 wire when working with 18-20 ga sheet?

 

[sberry]

They would have to add another set of controls to optimize it for every wire. An inductance setting. With these types of machines they kind of shoot for the middle, a sweet spot if you will. Its probably going to run 023 for body pretty well. My take is if this isn't steady I make couple extra tacks and run 030, 18 isn't bad, lighter can be done, if I was rebuilding a car would likely switch wire sizes.
As I said, not intimate with the esab models but have ran several other machines in this 175-200A compact class, I have tested them and put meters on them. Switching to 035 may allow a pinch more current (030 is substantial over 023) but they have it really tuned for the 030 and the arc becomes erratic at some point, maybe a pinch more than 030 but they run it so well and I can wring all it gives out so 030 is all that is in my little machines. Its got good range, all the way from light auto sheet to limited 1/4. Let me look later see if I can find a couple 030 pics with a 210.

Another thing to consider is warranty here not that you are likely to need it, its pretty rare but I believe some of the stuff is 5 yr if I am not mistaken.

 

[sberry]

I stop and change 1 volt to try to get the splatter out. On the second this is a HH210, 030, c25, don't remember what the amps are but the machine was squeezed and had it on the edge, darn near a spray, ha,,, but hot enough on this 1/4 plate that it got fluid to the point cant even see ripples from way too much coffee. A 120V 140 could never each this point on this thickness.

 

[IndyGarage]

HTP 130 was on sale for fathers day a couple weeks ago $399 with nice starter package

 

[Zeke]

For the 3/16ths and 1/4 stock, I'd learn to use that tombstone. I bought some 3/64ths rod and was welding up a storm on some 10 ga. No butts but worked great on laps and T's.
3/16" would be a snap.

 

[bobcatdan]

From what I have seen, not much for decent welders come up on CL. Old stick welders somebody found in a barn or a HF for $200. Check out places like airgas or prexair, they take trades and can have some pretty good deals on good checked over units.

 

[kald]

Here is a review form the guy at welding tips and tricks using a HH 210 for bumper build. He really to like it

I'm considering one since the feed mech is metal and you get the spool gun kit include for under a 1K
.
CL around me here in FL is a joke. Overpriced junk and the good deals are quickly scarfed by the pro blue hairs.

 

[Cheap5.0]

Anyone a regular at toolking? I see they have sold HH 210's within the past few months for $700 shipped (refurbs). Anyone know if they get them in stock frequently? Ill send an email off on that one....

I also sent that guy with the Esab MM 250 an offer. We will see what he says.

 

[Sick Puppy]

Am I the only one who read this and thought the OP was looking for a cheap fighter jet?

 

[Cheap5.0]

There is this locally, he has had it listed for about a month (refreshing it every few days). Im sure i could get it for less.

http://detroit.craigslist.org/mcb/tls/3099475252.html

From what i have read though, the "HD" models are not quite the same as the regular Lincoln migs. Im still reading up on what those differences are.

 

[sberry]

This is a Ford Chevy thing for a lot of people, I could care less. There is nothing wrong with the box store Lincoln and unless some things have been changed they are the same units, Rumors like this are great for Miller,,, ha and the box stores might not sell the + version, only the taps.

This isn't gospel but what I can tell you is that is a very good machine. If they cheap it they didn't hurt it one lick, nothing to be scared of. Only issue is purchase date, warranty and a 210 is about a 10% better machine on the top end, all you can get from 030, wring right out from operator that can get the last drop.

Hobart Darrel the engineer in this project I believe really worked on the choke design and a couple other issues, real minor and a guy wouldn't notice it unless he was looking to about 3/16 material or so. I have a red one, old, old version similar, ran way beyond a hobby shop, countless rolls of wire, Couple minor issues over near 20 yrs and easily fixed, likely never to come up in home/hobby, you just plain cant run it enough to wear it out.

I keep one right at my work bench, flip switch, weld, also use it out on shop floor and in hoist bay on occasion.

 

[Cheap5.0]

This is a Ford Chevy thing for a lot of people, I could care less. There is nothing wrong with the box store Lincoln and unless some things have been changed they are the same units, Rumors like this are great for Miller,,, ha and the box stores might not sell the + version, only the taps.

This isn't gospel but what I can tell you is that is a very good machine. If they cheap it they didn't hurt it one lick, nothing to be scared of. Only issue is purchase date, warranty and a 210 is about a 10% better machine on the top end, all you can get from 030, wring right out from operator that can get the last drop.

Hobart Darrel the engineer in this project I believe really worked on the choke design and a couple other issues, real minor and a guy wouldn't notice it unless he was looking to about 3/16 material or so. I have a red one, old, old version similar, ran way beyond a hobby shop, countless rolls of wire, Couple minor issues over near 20 yrs and easily fixed, likely never to come up in home/hobby, you just plain cant run it enough to wear it out.

I keep one right at my work bench, flip switch, weld, also use it out on shop floor and in hoist bay on occasion.

You are a wealth of info man, you really are. I spent 3 hours today searching/reading and you just summed up all the effort.

The box stores have "HD" "T" etc...for marketing purposes only. The only differences is the "C" models have a cast AL drive and the store brands have a plastic drive and obviously they are tapped. Thats it. Basically what you said.

Its rare i get to warren, but i might have to make a special trip for that. Its about 30 minutes each way from where i work, but i think its worthwhile. I might even have a driver pick it up for me while he is on a route....hmmm..ideas...

I got an email back on the Esab MM250. Its in Sandusky OHIO, not Sandusky MICHIGAN. However, if there is anyone around Sandusky OH that machine can be had for $800 possibly less. They accepted that offer in the reply and asked when i would be there to pick it up.

What is it you do in your shop? Is this a full time, "support the family" place?

 

[sberry]

I am a farmer. Yes its full time and unlike the traditional view of a farmer I am really a full time mechanic, shop is our strength and we try to design as much labor out of things as we can.
As for the plastic thingy,,,, might even be better, sometimes they keep old styles because the customer insists,, etc but that drive bracket doesn't mean squat and I think mine may even have that style,, did have to replace it when someone backed into it with a forklift and knocked it off a tall cart.

The little red machine has paid for itself hundreds of times over, seems I calculate it, like 2 cents a weld machine cost over 20 yrs, don't recall now. I use that for about 90% of my work, I use a little stick on equipment when climbing around or outside. But the linc does the real work, there is a 250 class sits near it that is pretty lonely for the most part.

 

[Cheap5.0]

I am a farmer. Yes its full time and unlike the traditional view of a farmer I am really a full time mechanic, shop is our strength and we try to design as much labor out of things as we can.
As for the plastic thingy,,,, might even be better, sometimes they keep old styles because the customer insists,, etc but that drive bracket doesn't mean squat and I think mine may even have that style,, did have to replace it when someone backed into it with a forklift and knocked it off a tall cart.

The little red machine has paid for itself hundreds of times over, seems I calculate it, like 2 cents a weld machine cost over 20 yrs, don't recall now. I use that for about 90% of my work, I use a little stick on equipment when climbing around or outside. But the linc does the real work, there is a 250 class sits near it that is pretty lonely for the most part.

Thats a spectacular set up you have there. You are near my grandparents (Frankfort), the next time im up there ill have to bug ya.

As if i needed to muddy the waters even more, i emailed a guy that just posted (about 30 minutes ago) a L-tec 250 w/bottle/consumables/autodark helmet/misc other stuff for $500. Hope to god its not a scam, its not already gone by tomorrow morning when he gets the email, etc....fingers crossed.

The guy with the Lincoln 180 is a bit of a *******, but i dont care for that price. If the L-tec doesn't come through, ill call that guy again.

 

[sberry]

The Ltec is a good unit, I think its a Linde. I think it has another knob or 2 on it for your amusement. I have used a couple of them, way back when though. Yes, south of Frankfort, takes abut half an hour from here.

 

[Cheap5.0]

The guy with the L-tec got back to me during the night, he said i was first to email him so ill be first to look at it today

What should i look at/for? Im waiting to see if i can try before i buy, hopefully I can. Run it through most of the tapped settings? Increase/Decrease wire speed? What should i look at closely.

 

[sberry]

I am not sure what you can do, turn it on and see if it makes sparks. At this price cost some gamble is in order, if this is an owner tank I would hurry, therrow money at him before he changes his mind.

 

[Cheap5.0]

I am not sure what you can do, turn it on and see if it makes sparks. At this price cost some gamble is in order, if this is an owner tank I would hurry, therrow money at him before he changes his mind.

Yes its an owner tank as well. He works about 50 minutes from where he lives (guessing by his busines email address), so ill most likely be waiting until after he gets home at 5.

I understand that gamble, but i think its worth it.

 

[sberry]

The gamble is fairly small here, doesn't look like someone trying to off scrap, likely cleaning out things they don't need. Personally I would call the guy and say sold before someone beats me to this, the bottle is worth half the deal maybe more if its full., another hundred for wire maybe way more if one is an alloy, even a roll f steel is 50+ dollars anymore. I am sure this is single phase.

I have machines like this, don't need it and I usually don't fool with things I don't have use for but I would ****** this if it was near me just for giggles and to change up the color scheme.

 

[Cheap5.0]

The gamble is fairly small here, doesn't look like someone trying to off scrap, likely cleaning out things they don't need. Personally I would call the guy and say sold before someone beats me to this, the bottle is worth half the deal maybe more if its full., another hundred for wire maybe way more if one is an alloy, even a roll f steel is 50+ dollars anymore. I am sure this is single phase.

I have machines like this, don't need it and I usually don't fool with things I don't have use for but I would ****** this if it was near me just for giggles and to change up the color scheme.

Yes he said the bottle was full. I never got his phone number, but ill shoot him another email letting him know ill take it.

This happened last week, someone had a millermatic 175 for $400. I called on it, told the guy i would take it. He said he couldn't meet up till the next morning, to call him then and we would set up a time. I called him the next morning and he said he sold it already.

 

[Cheap5.0]

I got a phone number & the guy said he will meet me around 4-5 today

 

[skyking]

sberry ......your welds make mine look like **** on a shingle..I use a lincoln 140 for portable and am buying a hobart 190 for bigger stuff (unless you guys tell me different) Let me know. I just weld on trailers and such.

 

[ndoran]

I have a Cannox Firefly that welds 1/4 inch without a problem and runs off 120v supply needs the full 15A so you need a 20A breaker.

Anyway whether or not this is the machine for you is not the point. I looked long and hard for a good welder and one day I was in the local rental house I asked if they had any welders for sale. They did not but said they would sell one and offered to rent me a unit for the day and if I decided to keep it I could buy it for 25% of the retail price and they would deduct the rental cost from the purchase price.

I had the Firefly in my car, home, tested and was back at the rental shop habding over the money before they could change their mind. I have had this unit 12 years without a problem. Prices have come down on MIGs now but to put it in context I paid for a professional welder with the gas regulator the same sale price that Canadian Tire was listing a Lincoln gasless wire feed welder .

You may want to try your Rental shops

 

[Cheap5.0]

4 hours of driving in this 95 degree heat, $20 in gas and a nice sunburn from driving the jeep without the top the whole time and.....

Its a done deal. He didnt have 220 at his house so its still untested.

I got a 125 cu ft bottle thats filled up, 5 20 lbs spools of new wire, a new liner in a bag, 1 new regulator & 1 used regulator, and a walmart bag filled with new parts in bags. He said a shop he worked at switched from L-tecs to lincolns and gave away all the consumables to the guys in the shop for the L-tecs. I still have to go through it all, but there is a lot there....

The only thing that has me scratching my head is the plug. It looks like the one below, but it has 4 prongs instead of 3. What kind of plug is that?

edit: I was surprised i actually found what it was quickly!

Its a L14-30 Male plug. 125/250 volt safety plug. Can i remove that plug, and put in a regular 30 amp 220 plug?

 

[jomobco]

HTP 130 was on sale for fathers day a couple weeks ago $399 with nice starter package

I've been very happy with my HTP welder.