looking for a good welder - learning

[plain2car]

hi,
i am looking into getting a welder & i did not want to spend more then $500. i know that is not alot,but i can not do much right now. my main purpose is light automotive welding along with hobby type stuff. i would prefer it to be a 220v welder(i have dedicated plug now). i will be learning to weld with the unit i buy. i know at this price i can not be picky, but i would like to get a good solid unit. i would prefer new but would buy used if a very good unit. i have looked locally (CL).i am also looking at ebay, although not very trusting of it i am wanting the help of all the great guys on this board - along with suggestionsvalued thoughts please.....

i am looking at something like this one for example...
http://weldingsupplyusa.com/index.p...&category_id=8&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=1

thanks for your time & ideas!

 

[nismomans13]

That's a decent welder to learn with. You can check craigslist too and probably find better deals. I wouldn't get anything under 220v just because you really are going to want that extra power down the road somewhere and when you don't have it, its a real pain.

 

[tdkkart]

The small Lincolns and Millers are all good products, really can't go too far wrong. I would however recommend that you save up the cash and do the gas conversion as soon as possible, makes a world of difference.

 

[56nash]

Ditto on the 220V statement, I have a Miller 135 Mig that I love, but I find myself wishing often that I had the extra current output of the 220V model. I have found that MIG is very easy to learn and become quite proficient with. I am by no means going to say that I will feel comfortable welding structural or pressure rated items, but it has done me very well for Auto body patch panels and some offroad fab work on Jeep suspensions. Don't let the salesman tell you that you will do fine with flux core wire though, I thought for sure after using that **** that welding was black magic that I would never get, then I got argon/co2 mixed gas and solid wire and my world changed. Probably more than you cared to hear, but just sayin'.

 

[Wanna Ride]

The small Lincolns and Millers are all good products, really can't go too far wrong. I would however recommend that you save up the cash and do the gas conversion as soon as possible, makes a world of difference.

According to the info further down in the listing, that one already comes with the free gas kit. But he's right, definitely go with a MIG unit over the flux core only.

Just call to confirm, but it looks like an ok deal. As far as used stuff... I usually steer away from used items of this nature, but that's just my opinion. I prefer some piece-of-mind with big-ticket, or technical purchases.

For my two-cents... I'd recommend starting with a 110 unit for a first unit. They're a little more versatile/diverse as far as being able to move the unit where you need it, instead of bringing the job to the welder. You can usually welder thinner metals without as much risk of burnuing through. A decent 110welder can handle pretty good stuff, I built my entire 7' x 11' trailer with it, and it's a much more durable trailer than you can buy of the same size. You can always buy a larger, 220 unit later on that will widen your scope of possible projects. It's difficult for the hobbyist welder to dial a big 220 machine down to working with thin sheet metal.

But I'm sure someone will chime in on the exact opposite of what I said... after all, this is the internet.

 

[minhster]

I only have 3 words for you, 'GET A MILLER" and you wont regret it! In my opinion the best quality welder out there for the money and there's no such thing as a crappy miller welder.

 

[38Chevy454]

Agree on the gas kit for MIG over flux core. If the weldder comes with gas kit, then all you need to do is buy a gas cylinder locally. For most people that are just home welding, leasing cylinders gets too expensive. Just buy a used one and then no troubles with fees adding up. Exchange it when you need a new one.

 

[sberry]

Ditto on the 220V statement, I have a Miller 135 Mig that I love, but I find myself wishing often that I had the extra current output of the 220V model. I have found that MIG is very easy to learn and become quite proficient with. I am by no means going to say that I will feel comfortable welding structural or pressure rated items, but it has done me very well for Auto body patch panels and some offroad fab work on Jeep suspensions. Don't let the salesman tell you that you will do fine with flux core wire though, I thought for sure after using that **** that welding was black magic that I would never get, then I got argon/co2 mixed gas and solid wire and my world changed. Probably more than you cared to hear, but just sayin'.

This is pretty well thought out and very typical. There is only so much you can squeeze thru the wall with 120V units and the 240 ones are not all that much of a stretch for so much more. They are still affordable but were aimed at this crowd specifically, a bit more poop that allows for some light structural work on occasion. Would do most anything routine that come to mind in a home/automotive environment. I have all the processes and machines but in all reality do most of the work I come across with one.

 

[brownbagg]

It sound like you want to go mig, not many people want to start out using stick, it just not "IN" no more. If you wanted to go stick I reccomend the lincoln ac/dc 230 amp machine, the red tombstone , that machine been around fifty years it a good cracker box, I would stay away from ac only machine. Just because DC is 300% easier and nicer weld. Plus you can pick up 7018 rods free laying around on jobsites, they are a dc rod

OK, mig stay away from anything that not lincoln,miller, hobart. dont even look at harbor freight. I have a miller 130, its very very limited, its a sheetmetal welding and not good at that. the best machine would be the 180+ dual voltage, 110/220 with gas. maybe $700 if lucky

But if you want to learn stick, you can pick up a use crackerbox as cheap as 50 dollar and be welding under 150. then go to mig later, then tig but with welding you need, cutter, grinders, gloves, jackets, helmets etc, it adds up, If you had to go mig and buy new and good, it would cost close to 2000 to be equip

 

[billspit]

I have a 110 volt Lincoln and am very happy with it. But I only weld sheet metal on cars.
One thing I noticed on the welder you showed is it says Century-Lincoln. That may be a cheapened Lincoln welder. I don't know.

 

[tdkkart]

Agree on the gas kit for MIG over flux core. If the weldder comes with gas kit, then all you need to do is buy a gas cylinder locally. For most people that are just home welding, leasing cylinders gets too expensive. Just buy a used one and then no troubles with fees adding up. Exchange it when you need a new one.

The pisser here is that the guy is on a budget and the bottle purchase can add up to a chunk of change. I wouldn't go anything smaller than the 120cf bottle(I think that's right, the 4ft tall ones) for MIG gas. Problem is it's gonna cost about $150 up front for the bottle.
I got a deal on a TIG a few years ago, and then spent about $500 on a new bottle and other consumables before I turn the switch on. Happy I did it, but it sure hurt.

 

[sberry]

I only have 3 words for you, 'GET A MILLER" and you wont regret it! In my opinion the best quality welder out there for the money and there's no such thing as a crappy miller welder.

This is true, Miller doesn't have any losers in the lineup, I am a Miller fan but the others have machines that work well too, this is a niche where how well it works is very competitive. The Miller, Hobart and Lincoln are "cant miss" products. A while back each had a couple model stars and 1 or 2 that were kind of losers and even those differences were rather minor to some extent but these guys have been tuning the lineup in the last few years and the machines all work good. There are even some good China models now but not enough price difference to be real enticing and they are hit and miss.

 

[muibubbles]

posted this in another thread...

ive been looking into the hobart 140... i think its a pretty good deal..
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/too...6073_200306073

475 free shipping
+ free welding cart
+ gift card (if you spend 500 you get a 50 gift card)

hopefully santa pulls through for me this year... =)

 

[sberry]

Hobart for one has made some model changes and the fit is good. They toss out 2 and replace with one, IM230, move the IM210 back in to the compact class and got rid of the 250. The 187 is their bare bonz but its got a great arc. Got a Lincoln also in this same class, gets used for something most days, 18 yrs old, had to replace the tap switch and oil the fan. Lot of hrs on it though, well earned its keep and still runs as good as when it was new.

 

[ishiboo]

Hobart for one has made some model changes and the fit is good. They toss out 2 and replace with one, IM230, move the IM210 back in to the compact class and got rid of the 250. The 187 is their bare bonz but its got a great arc. Got a Lincoln also in this same class, gets used for something most days, 18 yrs old, had to replace the tap switch and oil the fan. Lot of hrs on it though, well earned its keep and still runs as good as when it was new.

My Handler was IDENTICAL to the Miller unit, except for the wire feed was nylon-reinforced composite instead of aluminum. The Hobart's seem to be a good value. The actual welding should be the same, at least at the time (a couple years ago) the electronics were identical.

I think for under $500 that's going to be your best bet.

 

[sberry]

The small 230V units run 023 solid very well if needed for light sheet and body work but are optimized for 030 solid. A 120v will be on the top end and struggle but the 180 class really sizzles it.

 

[sberry]

The Millers and Handlers do share some parts, they are owned by the same syndicate. At one time though the only models that were exactly identical was the stick, the Tbolt and the Stickmate ran down the same line with different jacket installed. One I think would be a good addition for Hobart is a bare bones 120V inverter stick. Real entry level like the 125EZ which is a fine machine in its own right.

 

[Wanna Ride]

Some career welders will tell you 110 is not sufficient. It's difficult for them to think like a hobbyist welder. Not discrediting them at all, by no means. But remember... they weld for hours DAILY. While I'm no stranger to welding and fabrication, I wouldn't walk into a welding shop and try to apply for a job as a certified welder.

On those same lines, I'm more than capable of cooking my own dinner, but I wouldn't try to convince anyone I was a chef. Let's be realistic, most people aren't rebuilding back-hoe buckets in the garage, next to the mini-van. Building some shelves, repairing lawn mowers, or conjuring up some typical home hobbyist projects is about the scope of it.

A basic 110 unit will work fine in a home garage application for occassional use.

 

[tdkkart]

I was in the local HF store awhile back, browsing in the welder aisle when some guy standing there looking at the mig welders.
He holds up a mig gun and says "is this what they use for welding exhaust pipe and stuff??"

I say's, "well sorta, but unless you're gonna spend real money you'd be better off with a box of self tapping screws or pop rivets than that cheap POS."

 

[tdkkart]

A basic 110 unit will work fine in a home garage application for occassional use.

Hate to admit it, but I've been using a cheapo copy of a 130amp Daytona Mig for over 20 years. I don't use it every day, but when I do use it I ride it hard. Done alot of stuff that the "experts" would say you can't do with a 110V welder, including chassis work. None of it's ever broken for me, and most of it looks pretty decent.
One of these days I'm gonna get a decent MIG, in the mean time I have my Miller 180A TIG for heavier stuff.

 

[edl]

OK, mig stay away from anything that not lincoln,miller, hobart. dont even look at harbor freight. I have a miller 130, its very very limited, its a sheetmetal welding and not good at that. the best machine would be the 180+ dual voltage, 110/220 with gas. maybe $700 if lucky

why not? - understand they are not millers - but they cost a fraction - they have also come out with a new model:

http://www.harborfreight.com/230-vo...-welder-93793.html?utm_term=93793&tag=froogle

140 amp at 30% duty cycle at $350 - always a 20% cupon floating around, so $280 - most people say they need little dialing in, perhaps a little reinforcing but work fine - have you had a bad experience with one? - have others? - i am just thinking that for the OP's budget, this could be a really good alternative

 

[Az Scooter]

A little patience, and a little learning go a long way with small welders. I have a small Lincoln that I have used, and am fairly comfortable using it to weld up to 3/16 steel. It takes a slow, steady hand and some practice, and every thickness requires a little more of a learning curve to get a decent looking weld.
One limiting factor is getting enough electricity to get the heat needed. I have a 120v/30 amp outlet in my garage that I use for welding. As long as I use that outlet, welding is a piece of cake. If I try to use one of the standard 20 amp outlets, it does not work out so well. I have also used it welding off of a generator, and have had much the same experience. That means you need to make sure that you have enough electricity to power the welder for the type of wlding that you are going to be doing.

 

[minhster]

When it comes to 110 vs. 220 I think the 220v are better worth the money since they don't even cost that much more so you might as well "do it right the first time" and have the option to weld thicker material. But if you don't have a 220v outlet, there's nothing wrong with a 110 at all. Me and my buddies welded a full roll cage on a race car with a miller 120 (110v) and it easily passed tech.

I've welded with Miller Passport (the one in the pelican case), Miller 120, and Miller 225 and I have to say, welding with the 225 is SOOOOOO MUCH SMOOTHER and the machine just feels like a MAN! The wire feed has a totally different feel compare to the 120 and passport. Unfortunately I had to sell my 225 a few years back because of space and financial issues but when the time comes I will probably settling with a 180 since I do not plan on doing the amount of welding that I use to do.

 

[GN4WHLN]

I have a Lincoln Powermig 180. It's their light industrial welder and a little better than the Easymig and Promig big box store models. It has been a great welder, I've welded a lot of steel and aluminum (I have a spool gun for it) without a hitch.

Welders are one of theose things where you can go too big and you get what you pay for. Lincoln, Miller, Hobart, Esab, are all good bets. HF welders are inexpensive for a reason. Buy a good machine that is not too small and you will be a happy weldor.

Also, get it on the gas. Once you go mig, you won't go back. Get a good autodark helmet and gloves that fit well, they will help you build your skills. Once you get going, you'll find a whole world of builds has opened up to you.

 

[Bender78]

I have the Lincoln (pre Century) version of this same machine - 180 amp 220v - It's been in service for about 4 years. I have found it to be an excellent machine for the money. I recall that I paid about the same for mine without a cart.

 

[nismomans13]

I only have 3 words for you, 'GET A MILLER" and you wont regret it! In my opinion the best quality welder out there for the money and there's no such thing as a crappy miller welder.

I won't deny that millers are good welders but at long as you stick with the big 3, lincoln, miller, esab you won't be let down. Lincoln and ESAB seem to be the most expensive when it comes to machines you can run at home though.

 

[gsport]

i'd say buy the best miller you can and save up for a bigger unit down the road. the miller will hold its value alot better than some off brand units and be easy to sell later on...

 

[crewchief888]

Some career welders will tell you 110 is not sufficient. It's difficult for them to think like a hobbyist welder. Not discrediting them at all, by no means. But remember... they weld for hours DAILY. While I'm no stranger to welding and fabrication, I wouldn't walk into a welding shop and try to apply for a job as a certified welder.

On those same lines, I'm more than capable of cooking my own dinner, but I wouldn't try to convince anyone I was a chef. Let's be realistic, most people aren't rebuilding back-hoe buckets in the garage, next to the mini-van. Building some shelves, repairing lawn mowers, or conjuring up some typical home hobbyist projects is about the scope of it.

A basic 110 unit will work fine in a home garage application for occassional use.

Hate to admit it, but I've been using a cheapo copy of a 130amp Daytona Mig for over 20 years. I don't use it every day, but when I do use it I ride it hard. Done alot of stuff that the "experts" would say you can't do with a 110V welder, including chassis work. None of it's ever broken for me, and most of it looks pretty decent.
One of these days I'm gonna get a decent MIG, in the mean time I have my Miller 180A TIG for heavier stuff.

i had one of those daytona mig 130's for many many years. i bought it used for $150, used it for close to 15 years before it needed more in repairs than it was worth.
it was replaced with a lincoln promig 140 110v machine 4 years ago.
ive welded everything from sheetmetal to suspension mounts.
would i like to have a bigger machine?
of course, it would eliminate the need for multiple passes, but i'm not trying to make a living with it.
i'd suggest for sheet metal .022-.025 wire and mix gas. heat is much more controllable, and less burn through, with the smaller wire.

 

[gahrajmahal]

I've had a Daytona Mig for 15 years & have barely used it. It is always requiring repair. 9 times out of 10 I go directly to my 35 yr. old Lincoln stick welder. I always know it will give me excellent beads. Just pre-heat the rods a bit to drive out the moisture. You should see my cast iron welds with it!

 

[rsanter]

where are you? I have a Hobart Mig Im going to sell

bob

 

[Cwood8656]

If you decide you want to try a 110 unit, I have a very nice Hobart for sale with gas bottle and accessories. I'm in the New York City area.

Here's a link to the post in the classifieds:

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=84087&highlight=cwood8656

 

[6768rogues]

I have more than one welder, but I probably use the little Hobart 140 more than the others combined, even though it is a flux wire feeder. I like the portability, so I can take it anywhere on my farm or in the shop where I have a plug; no need to be tethered to a 220 outlet. It welds well up to a quarter of an inch thick.

 

[plain2car]

guys,
thank you for the responses & honesty!!! all this is why i enjoy this board!! i would really like a 220v machine & the reading i have done indicates as you all have said is to go with one of the big 3. i agree that the gas units are also the better ones. i am going to look at a unit tomorrow & get some info from a dealer as well. thank you again & please keep any & all suggestions coming. it will hopefully come from santa!! (LOL)

 

[RbrtAWhyt]

always a 20% cupon floating around

They wont let you use the coupons on welders anymore...

 

[ZRX61]

where are you? I have a Hobart Mig Im going to sell

bob

What model?

 

[ZRX61]

why not? - understand they are not millers - but they cost a fraction - they have also come out with a new model:

http://www.harborfreight.com/230-vo...-welder-93793.html?utm_term=93793&tag=froogle

140 amp at 30% duty cycle at $350 - always a 20% cupon floating around, so $280 - most people say they need little dialing in, perhaps a little reinforcing but work fine - have you had a bad experience with one? - have others? - i am just thinking that for the OP's budget, this could be a really good alternative

Gas kit for Mig is extra & a 7ft lead is next to useless, 10ft or more is the norm. It also comes with a "hand held face shield" WTF? who still uses those?

 

[plain2car]

maybe you guys can clear something up..... a friend indicated that i should only go with L.E. or miller, that the other brands were "knockoffs" of those two. he said that any others (I.E: hobart or century & such) would be dificult to find/buy replacement parts for. i am not in agreement, i would think that the century models would be able to accept the lincoln replacement parts is this right??

thanks!!

 

[plain2car]

the main reason for "wanting/needing" a 220v unit is that my new house is limited in outlets located in the garage & they are tied to the GFCI system, so if i run anything "heavy" such as a welder or my compressor in the garage then i always need to reset the breaker!.... don't get me started on this subject!...LOL!! The house has 1 220v 50a outlet that i was able to order with it.

 

[jomobco]

I've had my HTP 200 mig (http://www.htpweld.com/products/mig_welders/mig_200.html ) for close to 4 years now and it's been awesome. I created 100+ feet of wrought iron fence, gates and more. It dials down nicely for light metal. I also purchased their plasma cutter and have used it extensively without issue. Customer service with them is very good and prices are very competitive.

 

[MichaelP]

I'll make it simple for you. Buy Hobart Handler 187, and you're going to be a happy man.

Excellent welder, perfect support (Hobart is a Miller's subsidiary), easy to get parts/consumables.

Then you can simply buy a 20lb bottle of CO2. It occupies a very little space, quite inexpensive and lasts for a long time. Later, if you need a slightly smoother performance (especially, on thin sheet), you may invest into argon/CO2 bottle (C25 gas) (or rent one).