Looking for a sewing machine

[Ohmthis]

My wife has asked for Christmas ideas and I’ve given her the usual items. We had a smaller singer that would do fancy stitches and even a little embroidery work. That machine was lost to a house fire and it wasn’t replaced. Now I’m thinking it would be nice to have another one. What I’d like is one that can sew two pieces of heavy vinyl. Something like what a boat interior would have. I have flipped a couple boats and the interior work is the only thing I can’t do myself. Do you guys and gals have any input? As far as a budget, I’d say $300. I know that may not do it, but I really don’t know. Also, it needs to be commercially available, no used market here. Thanks for any insight.

 

[Milton Shaw]

Two thicknesses are just the start of sewing. When you are doing upholstery work you have at least two vinyl, gimp (edging) and sew foam and then you get to a corner and can have twice that. You need a walking foot commercial upholstery machine, the kind with a 1/4 to 1/2 horse motor mounted under the table. Look on Ebay and you should be able to find one in reasonable shape but watch the shipping charges as its heavy and big. You are close enough to Nashville and other metro areas to be able find one within a days drive.

 

[Dumber than lumber]

Until you said commercially available I was having lots of ideas.
Anyway, flea-bay has a lot of this kind of stuff. And $300 doesn't go far if buying new. Or am I missing your meaning?

 

[mikegt4]

You might find some ideas/suggestions in this thread.
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=331931&highlight=sewing&showall=1

 

[Zewnten]

I suggest looking at a vintage unit from a repair place , so you know it works and parts are available or getting a Babylock, they have a metal frame and metal gears so it handles heavy materials well but no fancy stitches. My wife's Pfaff she inherited will do what you want but those are serious money new.

 

[speters33w]

You need a pretty heavy machine for the thicknesses you are describing.

Maybe look at a Singer 9960. It should do what you want right at budget.

A Singer 4452 may be a little more rugged, and is cheaper.

If you really start flipping a lot of boats or re-doing upholstery, look at a Juki in the $600-$1000 range.

 

[Aaron_W]

My wife wants a new sewing machine and she likes to make costumes for renaissance faires etc, so I've been looking at used commercial machines.

For what you are describing I think you really want a commercial sewing machine, and for that you will get a lot more machine on the used market.

Singer and Brother make some "heavy duty" machines in the under $300 range, but I don't know if they would really be up to upholstery work.

You might find some ideas/suggestions in this thread.
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=331931&highlight=sewing&showall=1

I really did not expect to see a legit sewing thread on GJ, certain it was a joke. Actually a pretty cool thread.

 

[metlmunchr]

Unless the OP lives in a hotbed of bankrupt upholstery shops, he's not going to find anything suitable for upholstery work anywhere near his $300 budget.

Most of the machines around here listed as commercial or industrial machines are relics from sewing plants, made for production sewing of clothing and useless for any sort of upholstery work.

I suggest looking at some youtube videos of compound feed walking foot sewing machines to see how a machine suitable for vinyl and leather works. There are some videos with slow motion showing the motions of the various components as the machine runs. Jamming a needle thru multiple layers of material is no big feat. The complexity and high cost of these machines is primarily related to what it takes to feed the material thru the machine at an even speed and make consistent length stitches. A homeowner type machine WILL NOT feed this stuff evenly regardless of any labels like "heavy duty" and regardless of how many fancy stitches it may have.

Dealers who have used compound feed walking foot machines of the type needed for vinyl or leather upholstery are typically asking 75% of new price for 30-40 year old machines.

I watched FB marketplace and CL regularly for months looking for any sort of reasonably priced suitable machine, and eventually gave up and bought a new Juki 1541S with a servo motor and table for about $1400 including shipping. When the used market wants a thousand bucks for 30 yr old clutch drive machines, buying new sorta becomes a no brainer.

Juki is the only machine still made in Japan as all the other former Japanese manufacturers have moved production to China. There are several Chinese machines on the market that can be bought for around $1000 including shipping. I don't know anything about the quality of any of them, and spent the additional money to buy the Juki because it consistently has top ratings for general purpose vinyl and leather use.

Now, if I could just find the time between other projects and honey-do's to actually learn to use the damn thing

 

[1cargarage]

There are only two classes of sewing machines - home machines and industrial machines. Home machines generally have captive/built-in motors and are thus semi-portable. Industrial machines - the ones found in every upholstery, sail, leather, and even alterations shop are mounted to a dedicated table and powered by a separate motor (clutch induction) which is mounted under the table. These units are not portable. Between the two are very few offerings, and none can be had new for $300.

Your best options if you want a portable/semi-portable machine are the Sailrite walking foot sewing machines (zig-zag and/or straight stitch), vintage Pfaff 130s are strong machines, and there are a few others in there. If you're ok with a stationary machine, the Consew 206-RB (RB1s & RB2s) is a good machine and there are a million of them out there. The 1s and 2s were still made in Japan and they run great. Also, the Singer 211, and Juki LU 562

A great channel to check out on Youtube is AlexanderDyer. He works exclusively with heavy duty machines and has very informative videos

Here is a good video of his on the Consew 206-RB

A couple things you should decide are:
Does the machine need to be portable?
Do you want a walking foot/compound feed?
What is the thickest material you expect to sew?
Do you want more stitch types than just a straight stitch?

Once you have a few of those questions answered, it'll be a lot easier to narrow down your choices.

Best

 

[matt_i]

My research into this led me constantly to the conclusion I needed something new and somewhat adjusted out of the box. I didn't want to spend my time trying to troubleshoot the internals or scavenge europe for parts. Sort of the thought process like the golf course down the road, they sit golf carts outside probably 1-2 per season next to the road with a sign stating the price. Did they sell their best running cart or one that made all of their problems go away? Similarly the good easy running machines aren't the ones listed for sale....

I'm looking at the Sailrite Fabricator/Consew 206RB-5/Juki machines for next year. Have canvas and some web strap things I want to do...definitely servo motor from what I can see, I spent time as a youth messing with my Mom's Viking sewing machine and while I hadn't driven yet and developed a precision feel with my right foot, the gas pedal on that machine still seems like hair trigger between a loud hum and WOT. I feel like I can do a much better job if I can go stitch by stitch, slowly.

 

[kd3pc]

for boat work, nothing beats the sailrite, they have a long history and are still made well, unlike some big "names" who are now made by someone else, but junk.

We have a $1500 Pfaff that is so bad, the model no longer shows on their own website, you have to call the home office to get anything. It is only 5 years old and is OK for quilting, piecing and so on.

I have a Husqvarna/Viking Lily machine that is at least a decade old or older and it sews circles around the Pfaff. Picked it up used for $200 at a viking dealer.

Sailrite is the answer, but they are not inexpensive.

 

[rlitman]

My wife wants a new sewing machine and she likes to make costumes for renaissance faires etc, so I've been looking at used commercial machines.

For what you are describing I think you really want a commercial sewing machine, and for that you will get a lot more machine on the used market.

Singer and Brother make some "heavy duty" machines in the under $300 range, but I don't know if they would really be up to upholstery work.

I really did not expect to see a legit sewing thread on GJ, certain it was a joke. Actually a pretty cool thread.

Forget "used commercial machines". They're not what you want. These are single purpose machines, and do not adapt well to multi-purpose uses.

If you're making clothing, you want just a good plain sewing machine with a metal frame. Look closely across the machine. If the opening to the right of the needle appears to be circular, rather than rectangular, then the machine has a plastic frame, and you should STAY AWAY.

Take this for example:

I love my Brother machines, but I wouldn't touch the above one or anything that looks like it with a 10 foot pole!

Along with that, if you're actually making clothing, you'll probably want a serger, as lockstitch machines just don't perform this job well.

"Heavy duty" in sewing machines means the same thing it means in batteries. Absolutely nothing. It's just an ordinary homeowner's sewing machine in a more masculine color scheme.

Upholstery work is a totally different beast. I've sewn some leather and vinyl on my machines. I'd love a walking foot, and if you're working on boat canvas, you really need one. But so far, I've gotten away with my teflon foot, or in cases of really sticky leather, a roller foot.

 

[dodge610]

My brother in law use too have 1 or 2 comm. machines designed for vinyl not sure they are still at his house. That might be for sale.

 

[Ohmthis]

Thanks everyone for the replies. The sail rite seems to be out of the budget from what I can see. Also with the research I’ve done so far a true walking foot machine is preferred over a walking foot attachment. Can an attachment work Effectively. Thanks again.

 

[rlitman]

Thanks everyone for the replies. The sail rite seems to be out of the budget from what I can see. Also with the research I’ve done so far a true walking foot machine is preferred over a walking foot attachment. Can an attachment work Effectively. Thanks again.

The only walking foot attachments I've seen are for homeowner machines, and are made to prevent "gathering" on VERY fine fabrics. Think silks. They will absolutely not work on vinyl or canvas.

The Sailrite is just one of many clones of an old design. Thompson IIRC. Lots of people use other cheaper clones and get good results. Supposedly the fit an finish of the Sailrite is what sets them apart. If you're on the handier side, perhaps their extreme price premium may not be needed.

 

[WNYflyer]

Don't know anything about sewing machines but if you were in the area, though it looks like they also are having online bidding, perhaps something from this auction would fit the bill. Local New-Era Cap Co. factory that closed up and now auctioning off machinery.

https://blackbirdauctions.com/index.php/current-auctions/269-new-era-cap

 

[jar944]

Unless the OP lives in a hotbed of bankrupt upholstery shops, he's not going to find anything suitable for upholstery work anywhere near his $300 budget.

Most of the machines around here listed as commercial or industrial machines are relics from sewing plants, made for production sewing of clothing and useless for any sort of upholstery work.

I suggest looking at some youtube videos of compound feed walking foot sewing machines to see how a machine suitable for vinyl and leather works. There are some videos with slow motion showing the motions of the various components as the machine runs. Jamming a needle thru multiple layers of material is no big feat. The complexity and high cost of these machines is primarily related to what it takes to feed the material thru the machine at an even speed and make consistent length stitches. A homeowner type machine WILL NOT feed this stuff evenly regardless of any labels like "heavy duty" and regardless of how many fancy stitches it may have.

Dealers who have used compound feed walking foot machines of the type needed for vinyl or leather upholstery are typically asking 75% of new price for 30-40 year old machines.

I watched FB marketplace and CL regularly for months looking for any sort of reasonably priced suitable machine, and eventually gave up and bought a new Juki 1541S with a servo motor and table for about $1400 including shipping. When the used market wants a thousand bucks for 30 yr old clutch drive machines, buying new sorta becomes a no brainer.

Juki is the only machine still made in Japan as all the other former Japanese manufacturers have moved production to China. There are several Chinese machines on the market that can be bought for around $1000 including shipping. I don't know anything about the quality of any of them, and spent the additional money to buy the Juki because it consistently has top ratings for general purpose vinyl and leather use.

Now, if I could just find the time between other projects and honey-do's to actually learn to use the damn thing

I certainly dont live in a hot bed of bankrupt upholstery shops.. however I bought located and purchased 3 walking foot machines in about a month of looking intermittently. The singer 156 was $67, consew 226r was $100 and the juki 563-3 was $165. Those were with tables. The most I've paid was $200 each (head only) for a double needle singer 212 needle feed, and a pfaff 138 zigzag.

All 5 were purchased is about a month start to finish.

 

[1cargarage]

Additionally, in terms of the industrial machines, 9/10 machines you'll find are either vintage Singer Industrial machines or exact clones of original Singer Industrial design. The brand Singer is still around (part of a huge conglomerate now, but Singer Industrial was a completely separate division and has long since gone belly-up. All of their patents expired decades ago and clones abound - some of which are indeed very nice. One benefit about the clone-after-clone-after-clone marketplace is that parts are often very interchangeable between brands/models.

My Consew 227R for example is a clone of the old Singer 153/153W (W=USA), which was also cloned by Seiko (Japan) in the form of its CW-8B.

SINGER 153/153W (Without reverse function)

CLONE: CONSEW 227 (With reverse)

CLONE: SEIKO CW-8B

The pictures above are cylinder bed machines I know, but just one example of how to 'simplify' the choices out there is by researching and identifying which machines are actually which machines if that makes sense.

To complicate/simplify this even more, certain groups of machines will use one type of foot or one type of x/y/z, so you will be able to buy a foot marked "Singer **-YYY" and it will be completely compatible with your "Consew YY-***" machine even though the models aren't equivalent.

It's a confusing world - the industrial machine world, but with some exhausting research and determination, you too can get a great machine with low miles for relatively cheap.

 

[bpjr]

OK, first...You can sew heavy vinyl, Sunbrella, Weblon, etc with a vintage all metal home machine. Look for one made in Japan which will be a 50s-60s era. They will sew 4-6 layers (more with operator experience) of Sunbrella with 20 size needle and heavy duty V92 bonded dac thread. They are basic straight stitch/zigzag/length'width. Your wife won't get a modern machine with all the fancy stitch options but these will do it all at the bottom of your budget. There are a lot of different brands and they look pretty much the same...Kenmore, White, etc. Prices likely under $100. If not doing production work these are good starters.

If you are coming to Florida anytime soon I will give (as in FREE) you a fully operational Singer 95-1 industrial straight stitch machine with stand/clutch/motor. I would rather give it to someone starting out rather than sell on clist for $100 or whatever. No I will not ship and you will have to load it. It's 1928 vintage and I bought it as a back up machine in early 1980s. It was from a men's tailor shop. At the time I was sewing boat canvas part time commercially with a Pfaff 138 and Consew 206-RB1 (which is WAY too crude and heavy duty to sew clothes). I've flipped a couple dozen boats and been sewing home project boat canvas since 2002 with a China made Morse Miniwalker (early Sailrites were actually a clone of these heads but prettied up with polished parts, paint and name change). To this day the majority of parts still interchange (I have the parts list and diagrams) but Sailrite has continued to modify that head with accessories. I can tell you from experience the miniwalkers will sew boat canvas just fine without the hyped mods you get with Sailrite.

I didn't catch this until re-reading the string...Sewing upholstery for homes and cars is a totally different application than sewing boat fabrics. Different materials, different tools different machines. They can cross over but you would not equip a marine canvas shop the same as a general upholstery shop. My Consew 206-RB1 could do both but it was better for heavy thick padded upholstery than for Sunbrella or vinyl. Leather machines for boat work are a total no go.

 

[stricht8]

Used Adler 167-373.

 

[dereksummers]

My wife has asked for Christmas ideas and IÂ’ve given her the usual items. We had a smaller singer that would do fancy stitches and even a little embroidery work. That machine was lost to a house fire and it wasnÂ’t replaced. Now IÂ’m thinking it would be nice to have another one. What IÂ’d like is one that can sew two pieces of heavy vinyl. Something like what a boat interior would have. I have flipped a couple boats and the interior work is the only thing I canÂ’t do myself. Do you guys and gals have any input? As far as a budget, IÂ’d say $300. I know that may not do it, but I really donÂ’t know. Also, it needs to be commercially available, no used market here. Thanks for any insight.

What did you get in the result?
Came across this thread recently, wanted to add my two cents in case you're still looking.

I bought a generic used Singer first (used, not so well maintained and - because of it - cheap) to try my luck and learn basic skills. It worked fine, but labored on 4 to 5 layers of seams. I spent may hours trying to learn and although I was then able to basically sew, I still had a lot to learn. Especially speed control. It's much easier to sew and learn at slow/crawl speed (esp when you're working with thicker materials) - but you need lots of practice to control the slowest speeds.

Then I purchased the Singer 4452 (here are specs). Runs great and does 5 layers of vinyl no sweat - starting slow requires a little hand crank help. It became obvious that slow speed control was the key for good looking half felled seams, tight radius/corner work and especially overall appearance. I do like this machine although it has much more capability than I require (occasional repairs + fixes). Cost me about 120$. Might be an option since you've mentioned "no used market" near you.

I'm happy so far with the purchase but If I knew then what I know now - I'd find a heavy duty preferably with only straight and zig zag stitches. Simpler is better, from my experience.
Also Sailrite posted some general tips on sewing leather, but it works for vinyl as well: https://www.sailrite.com/What-to-Look-for-in-Leather-Sewing-Machine

Good luck choosing, OP, as many great comments in this thread.
Great read on industrial machines, thanks for sharing 1cargarage.

 

[joe_pinehill1]

I found a late 70s, early 80s Viking Sewing machine on Craigslist, for $20. Its one of the last generation all mechanical sewing machines with a set of mechanical cams for stitch patterns.

It was completely locked up when I picked it up. Opened up the machine, used carburetor cleaner to degum every that moved. I don't know if its unique to Viking but the oil Husqvarna used turns solid after 20 years. The zigzag cam was cracked, the only piece of plastic on the internals of the machine, but replaced the part for $40.

So for about $60 we have a Viking Sewing machine, it can sew leather, and almost indestructible.

 

[bpjr]

That's interesting. I just pulled a Necchi 575FA home machine out of the cob webs with metal drive and plastic cams. A receipt was in the owners manual and new purchase cost was $299 in 1988. They used white lithium grease on the plastics and oil on the metal parts. Probably the standard way for most plastic cams. I've had a couple machines with plastic/nylon gears and over time the oil degrades them and they start crumbling with use. So keep an eye on those plastics.