Looking for cost effective building

[Big-Earl]

Hi there,

Next summer, I will be building a new garage/workshop. I have been throwing many different options around. I am open to anything from stick built to a quonset type building. I am looking to learn two things right now

1. the true cost of building a garage. I know there are a lot of little things that will add up. I have been looking at pre-assembled kits and other options but would like a true figure.

2. I am looking for any small options that will help me save some money. an example would be can I go with 24" OC instead of 16" OC? What are other suggestions that have been done?

As I laid it out, I would like something around the 24X40X10 size. This size is flexible, but the smallest I would like is 24X30. I will park 3 cars and a boat in the garage as well as have room for a work shop. I would like to have a bare minimum garage, no insulation and no wiring as of right now just a concrete pad with a garage on it. I am fairly handy with building things, although I have never built a complete garage I am familiar with framing methods and have friends that could help. That being said if there is a method that I can completely do myself that would be the best. Sorry for the wordy post, but I am excited/ready to learn a lot of things. I am sure I forgot something so lets start with this, thanks in advanced for the help.

 

[Falcon67]

Get busy with Excel - you can create a tab for different iterations of the building and estimated costs. If you spec it out well and keep up with it, you'll get close. About like a remodeling job, figure going 10~20% over even with careful planning. The "true cost" is what that pile of receipts adds up to after the project is complete. And it'll vary by region, season, material supply, individual effort and scrounging.

You can save a bit going 24" OC rather than 16" OC - but you want 10' walls, so IMHO that's possibly false economy. I'll go 8' at 24" OC, but not 12. It also depends on the external siding as to how it mush be supported.

10' walls will make it more difficult to work alone. Raising the walls is harder and working at height will require larger ladders and possibly scaffolding.

You can save some $ by framing rafters over 24' rather than buying trusses. The trade off is speed of assembly. And at 10', you'll have crane or lift rental as part of the expense of setting trusses.

You don't say where you are, but around here we're fairly rural and the most common 24x40x10 building will be a metal building. It's cost effective to timber if you don't really plan to finish out the inside with insulation, ceiling, environmental control, etc.

I did a couple - I can tell you that the product of your labor is extremely satisfying, but it is a LOT of work.

 

[Big-Earl]

sorry forgot, I am located in northern MN. As I said the 24X40X10 is flexible, I will look into 8' walls.

 

[rburke65]

Well, first of all welcome to Garage Journal. It would help all of us to help you if you would post a location in your profile. As far as the build goes, if you can build it, that will same a lot of bucks. In reference to the 24" rather than the 16" studs, that my depend on your local building codes. And you want just " bare bone", but some of your bare bones may also be dictated by local codes. When I built my shop with 13' plus side walls, I was not going to install gutters and down spouts because we have LOTS of trees and I didn't want to climb almost 14' up to clean 148' gutters. BUT......I could not even get a build permit without first getting a "down spout" permit and I was told "you will have gutters and down spouts". Not only that, but I was required to dig a dry well to catch the water coming from my roof. The down spout permit was only $185, $718 for gutters and downs, and I had over $450 in 4" and 6" drain pipe and fittings, and $500 in the dry well. All this for something that I didn't plan on doing in the first place. Trust me it's not only the little things that will be adding up.....it's the big things and the unknown. Hey....good luck and again, welcome to GJ.

 

[barks]

Three cars and a boat in 24 X 30 = 720 sq'? Plus a workshop? Before you start with Excel you might be well served to spend sometime with a drafting program to see how this space is going to be used.

 

[kbs2244]

Stick built is the easiest to DIY.
You can build a wall on the flat, have a wall lift party, and do it again.
So, if you don't count your labor time, it will be the cheapest.
If you need to get help, it is easier to find.

Personally, I have never thought the saving of 24" over 16" was worth it.
There are millions of 2x4 building out the that are pretty old.
So I don’t think two 2x6 or 2x8 extra strength is valid argument.
Now, if you plan on insulating in the future, the extra void space will be good to have.

 

[Fastback]

I have not priced out a quonset myself but From causal searching I can't see them being a lot cheaper than a stick built building. I would look into one and price it out based on already having a slab and see what it comes out to be.
If I ever move out into the country I will check into one of those just for the equipment barn, but they may not insulate easily and you can give up precious wall space that holds up cabinets etc...

 

[Slim9687]

It's gonna be hard to fit 3 cars, a boat and a small workshop in that size....it can be done but will be tight. The bigger you go the more it cost. I was planning a 40x60 but had to settle with a 36x50

 

[Big-Earl]

The location is near Bemidji MN and is in the country. As far as the size, my boat is a small 14' and one of the vehicles is a small jeep wrangler another is an S-10. having the boat inside would be mostly a winter thing as I fish 3+ days a week in the summer. I would love to go bigger but paying off college loans and house payment along with everything else I am restricted to what I can spend. Love the input so far thanks a lot. As far as the quonset style goes I have looked into them and they are about the same as stick build, the advantage is ease of installation, should be able to put it up in a week. keep the comments coming thanks again.

 

[bczygan]

Steps:
1. Find out what you CAN build. Check zoning restrictions and look at easements.
2. Design and estimate the project with alternates on a spreadsheet to see what alternates are attractive.
3. Make a decision and go with it.

In the design phase, since you are essentially building a shell, don't skimp on the size or quality of the shell. Properly excavate and install a well compacted base with good drainage to a height that promotes good drainage.
Strongly consider insulating under the slab.
Think about future in slab heat.
Don't skimp on slab thickness and quality of the mix, reinforcement and finishing. Make provisions for future gas, electrical, plumbing, communication, security and alarm lines underground.
Design for future lift if desired.
See if a floating slab could be approved. Foundation walls are a major expense.
Design roof structure for any future storage and weight of future insulation, lighting and ceiling material.
Make provision for any future doors and windows by providing header beams as needed.
Cheapest structure will probably end up being a wood framed and metal sided and roofed pole barn, especially if extra height is desired.
Consider installing slab later, or just placing concrete for shop area to begin with.

Designer, Builder and Estimator

 

[mypov]

You do not want to give up those extra studs... Seriously, trying to skimp in those areas does not make sense. In the end you might save 1000 dollars by going 24 on centre, but if you're into your garage for 30 000 what is 1000 dollars? You want resale value, longevity, and structural support. The way you save money is by finishing, the framing, and materials are not THAAT expensive - it's your insulation, wiring, drywall, windows, paint, and finish materials that are the expensive part. If you're trying to do it on a budget I would frame it all with 2x6 lumber, you can strap and insulate later giving you 2x8 wall thickness (with less thermal bridging), frame your windows in now, but don't add them, and get your roof and doors on. Depending on material costs you could probably do this for 10-15 grand. Then as money allows add your extras (windows. insulation, finish materials).
as mentioned above, do not skimp on the areas below the finish product if you want it to last and if you want long happiness out of your hard work. Insulating under the slab makes HUGE difference if you are going to have it as a heated space...And if you're going to be working on your vehicles and laying on the ground, you want it insulated...

But there are many different ways to skin a moose as they say here in Canada's North. Enjoy the build process.

 

[creativecars]

Earl,
Spend several late nights looking around here. There are LOTS of great ideas. I don't live in town now so I don't have to deal with the city bs, which is great. I am frugal when it comes to this kind of thing. I found some cheap pallet racking that was 12' tall and 44" wide. I was able to have 12' walls for a 30 X 40 building, standing for less than $300.00

 

[djjsr]

Think about a 2 story. It's a cost effective way to get square footage. If not a full second story, at least use trusses built for storage.

 

[Stuart in MN]

Living where you do, you may be able to find a local sawmill that can supply materials for less money than a home center - for instance, my brother in law lives outside Grand Rapids and has a portable bandsaw mill; he on occasion will do custom milling for people from their own timber. Chances are there are similar guys in the Bemidji area.

 

[speadphreak]

Have you considered a pole barn? Its one of the cheapest ways to build a building. I helped build my neighbors for him(he does all my mechanical work when I dont have time). We put up a 30x32x12 4/12 trusses, with 4x6 poles, concrete, 2x12 doubled headers, electric, steel roof and walls for under $7k. We dont have a snow load here so we did the trusses on 4ft centers but it only would have cost another$700 to do 2ft centers. He did cheap out on the doors, and made 12' tall plywood swing out doors with 2" angle iron frames.

 

[joe_padavano]

Have you considered a pole barn? Its one of the cheapest ways to build a building.

Beat me to it. I've built three pole buildings on my farm (two barns for the wife's horses and one garage for me). I've since erected a metal building. The foundation for the metal building exceeded the cost of the building itself (OK, I got the building from a prior owner who bought it but never erected it, so I didn't pay list price).

I'm currently building a 36 x 48 pole shed. Just ordered 6x6x16 posts (14 for $530, 8 ft OC). Trusses will be $1036 (4 ft OC, 4/12 pitch, agricultural load design limits). Figure another few hundred bucks for beams, girts, purlins, and hardware and the whole frame is under $2K and it's completely clear span inside. Siding and doors are your choice, metal or wood.

The big expense is the floor. I put a pressure treated 2x12 band around the base and use it as the form for a slab on grade (no footers). To prep for the slab I lay several rows of corrugated drain pipe down first, running it to daylight, then gravel. By ensuring that the area below the slab is well drained, there's no water to freeze and no cracking of the slab due to frost heaves. This has worked fine for the last ten years in my garage. I'm in Northern VA, near Harper's Ferry, so it definitely gets cold in the winter.

 

[Zeke]

Look up "optimum value engineering framing."

Here is one example of the explanation.

 

[KPSquared]

I'm pretty sure "The Pedestrian Garage" on here had to be one of the most cost effective DIY builds on here. Maybe I'm wrong but search and read that thread. I'm on my phone but I'll try and find the one I'm talking about.

Edit. . .Found it! http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=99486

 

[38Chevy454]

Cost is always a factor. But so is appearance, usefulness, utility costs, etc. I would go big as possible, fully insulate, 2x6 studs on 16 inch centers. You really don't save much and the 2x6 allows you to go more than 8 ft. Plus thicker wall = more insulation. MN gets cold, so insulation is required. The more you can do yourself, the more savings potential. Also consider how the outside appearance will benefit your house value. A bit more spent outside can help keep neighbors and potential buyers happy.

 

[Falcon67]

Look up "optimum value engineering framing."

Here is one example of the explanation.

I used some of that thought process. FWIW - going from 16" OC to 24" OC stud walls will save a hundred maybe, not $1000 or anywhere near that. Studs are cheap. It's the other materials to go to 10' that add cost. I deleted those spread sheets, but I looked at 8', 9' and 10' walls, The cost difference between was not that much for the framing - minimal. However, for a finished wall - OSB, siding, insulation, etc - figure roughly 25% more per linear foot of finished wall going from 8' to 10'.

 

[Spudland_Dave]

Living where you do, you may be able to find a local sawmill that can supply materials for less money than a home center - for instance, my brother in law lives outside Grand Rapids and has a portable bandsaw mill; he on occasion will do custom milling for people from their own timber. Chances are there are similar guys in the Bemidji area.

Could be false economy there...unless you have it sawn to "normal sized" lumber. I know a guy who framed with rough sawn..in other words a 2x4 was truly 2" and 4"..etc.. and he got killed with the little things of finishng it. The whole world is built around the normal lumber sizes. If you use Rough sawn 2x6's, a pre-hung door for 2x6 walls is not deep enough for example. And 2x6" insulation isnt thick enough either.

You can save some $ by framing rafters over 24' rather than buying trusses. The trade off is speed of assembly. And at 10', you'll have crane or lift rental as part of the expense of setting trusses.

True on the crane, BUT I dont think theres any cost difference between pre-fabbed trusses and DIY rafters. I know I couldnt have built my trusses for what I paid for them.

I did a couple - I can tell you that the product of your labor is extremely satisfying, but it is a LOT of work.

AMEN to that! TONS of work...but I go to bed every night knowing its done to my spec.

 

[BDT/NWMN]

Hi there,

Next summer, I will be building a new garage/workshop. I have been throwing many different options around. I am open to anything from stick built to a quonset type building. I am looking to learn two things right now

1. the true cost of building a garage. I know there are a lot of little things that will add up. I have been looking at pre-assembled kits and other options but would like a true figure.

2. I am looking for any small options that will help me save some money. an example would be can I go with 24" OC instead of 16" OC? What are other suggestions that have been done?

As I laid it out, I would like something around the 24X40X10 size. This size is flexible, but the smallest I would like is 24X30. I will park 3 cars and a boat in the garage as well as have room for a work shop. I would like to have a bare minimum garage, no insulation and no wiring as of right now just a concrete pad with a garage on it. I am fairly handy with building things, although I have never built a complete garage I am familiar with framing methods and have friends that could help. That being said if there is a method that I can completely do myself that would be the best. Sorry for the wordy post, but I am excited/ready to learn a lot of things. I am sure I forgot something so lets start with this, thanks in advanced for the help.

Not wordy enough; Earl...... I am less than an hour west of Bemidji, so I am well aware of the climate and building issues that lie before you... 24X30X12 is the size of my gravel floor machine shed.. It is far easier to picture the size of a building when you are standing inside one the same size... This shed is the cheapest type permanent building that can be built around our area.. That is; it is a pole shed with truss rafters 7 1/2' on center and 12X16 sliding door on the south end... Low cost unheated storage with no walk-in door or windows.. There have been folks in our area who have later upgraded such sheds with a concrete floor ... Add the price of the concrete floor, and you may as well built a studwall in the first place.. But here is the deal: build a bigger pole shed, and pour a concrete floor in a small area..


I have jabbered about a few things;, but I have not mentioned one of my pet gripes;; that is when I cannot open a vehicle door when I drive into a garage... ggrrr

Earl; Besides the four units that you mentioned, what else will be in that building..... Tractor and snowblower, pickup with tall camper, snowmobile, canoe, portable fishhouse, your cousin Rufus and his motor home(kidding)... and then still have room for a workshop area?? Better think bigger..
\

You can just about double your storage area if you go two story, or even a loft would help... Same roof and concrete and footprint.. the second story or loft can be built later,,,,provided the walls are tall enough in the first place..... This is one thing to ponder aaand, you can put a loft in a pole shed, also..

Keep an eye on Craig's list for a garage door, used truss rafters, rebar, plywood, even primer paint.. Just make sure that the materials are what you actually need for your project...

 

[camarotoolman]

If you realy want to do it cheap, start buying and dismantaling old unwanted buildings. Saw mill lumber is good too. Used doors and windows wil l save alot. Make you own trusses or go with rafters. When I built my garage, I bought a whole building,delivered for $300.

 

[Spudland_Dave]

Make you own trusses or go with rafters.

As I mentioned before...I cant speak for every shop or every building supply, but there is no way on gods green earth could I even buy just the lumber to do my trusses for what I paid for them done and delivered. Same story for a buddy of mine when he did his.
It may just be me, but I once built trusses for a small 12x16 garden shed I built. I wouldnt even reccomend building them that small. I spent/wasted an entire day assembling them.

If you want to save money, build simple, and dont be picky. I just wouldnt use old doors or such because they might already be shot. Saving 50 bucks today to spend 200 tomorrow on a replacement. Do it right the first time. You can probably save just as much money by shopping the clearance/return bins. You can easily get brand new entry doors for cheap money. Another good example is I saved $75.00 on each of my attic windows...they were returns/mis-shipped. They had never even left the lumberyard..they arrived in "plain insulated" not Low-E...more then good enough for my attic...so I took those 2 and ordered 2 more to match for the main floor.
Another thing...build using stocked products. I had some fun with my entry door, so I know theres differences...getting an in-stock style & door usually is a bit cheaper.

I had originally started out that 12x16 garden shed as a "Cheap is good" build...then the wife took over...went from the In stock "close enough" vinyl, doors, windows, roofing, etc.. to "You need to get the same as the house"...along with it came a bill $500.00 higher then I was planning.

Not to say taking a building down wont give you some lumber & materials on the cheap, but what is your time worth? and how much scrap will you have? If you take apart a 8' high building...how would you get the lumber to build a 10' high one for example.

Also if you want to build it "Cost Effectively" know where you want to end up. At first I wanted a pole building because they go up cheap & easy...but I wanted a finished garage in the end. That being said...finishing a pole building isnt as cheap or easy as a stick built one. So I waited 2 years and voila...got what I wanted. Heck, even thats something else to consider...timing & market volitilty. I've got a quote from 2 years ago for my garage (except 30x40 which is 10' SMALLER then now) and its $2,000 more then what I got into my 30x50.

 

[kmacht]

I second the suggestion of going for a second story. You can do it without having to do a full second story with walls if you put a gembral roof on it. My garage is 24x24 and has a full workshop up on the 2nd floor. It is very nice to be able to go up to the shop, build something and not have to worry about the mess or getting dust/dirt on the cars parked downstairs. For a price reference I bought a prefab garage from an Amish company. The total cost was about 25k delivered, installed, and painted. If you go look at some of my earlier posts you will see a thread with the garage being delivered and setup. There is a picture of the 2nd story in there that will give you an idea of what kid of space you can gain by just putting a gembral roof on the garage.

Keith

 

[Falcon67]

True on the crane, BUT I dont think theres any cost difference between pre-fabbed trusses and DIY rafters. I know I couldnt have built my trusses for what I paid for them.

My 5 pitch with 2x12x24 joists and 2x6x14 rafters ran about $34 each. A truss would have been double or triple that if designed to carry the loads a 2x12 can handle in an attic. Not that I load it up that much, but still.

 

[Big-Earl]

First, wow thanks for all the input, I didn't look for one day and there is already a second page. This is by far the most helpful forum I have been on it truly is appreciated

I have jabbered about a few things;, but I have not mentioned one of my pet gripes;; that is when I cannot open a vehicle door when I drive into a garage... ggrrr

I agree, when I started I was looking for a 30' wide garage. I found that moving to a 24' wide will lower the cost, and I think that this will be plenty to park two cars side by side.

Earl; Besides the four units that you mentioned, what else will be in that building..... Tractor and snowblower, pickup with tall camper, snowmobile, canoe, portable fishhouse, your cousin Rufus and his motor home(kidding)... and then still have room for a workshop area?? Better think bigger..

Yes other than the big things I mentioned I have some other stuff, snowmobile, portable fishhouse, tents and camping gear, ect. I was looking at 10' walls to have room to hang things and make shelving. I know it will get tight to have room to work but there is nothing I can really do about that. Other than winning the lottery I don't think my garage will ever be large enough.

You can just about double your storage area if you go two story, or even a loft would help... Same roof and concrete and footprint.. the second story or loft can be built later,,,,provided the walls are tall enough in the first place..... This is one thing to ponder aaand, you can put a loft in a pole shed, also..

I have been looking into a second floor. My only question is what am I limited to putting up there? I have seen specs for around 40 psf, I don't have an exact idea of how much that is? I could see a second story coming in very handy as a small work shop/man cave type deal.




Another question I have is if i do a partial gravel floor and would like to pour concrete later do I need to concrete footings or do I pour a floating slab? Also is doing this a PITA, do you put gravel down to where you want the floor to be or do you add a few inches then scrape it away to pour the concrete?

 

[Big-Earl]

So I just read through most of the pedestrian garage build, if I am planing on insulating my garage is there any benefit to building pole barn vs stick built? It seems to me that there is full framing inside of the shed would cost as much as just building a regular garage. It seems to me that the upfront cost would be cheaper and later on end up being the same cost. Am I way off on this or am I missing something?

 

[judgeyoung]

I paid the balance on the 30X30 steel building they finished TODAY. It has a concrete slab that was pretty high on one side and cost slightly more for extra concrete and fill sand, a 8X16 door, 8x8 door, steel personnel door, shed roof with 12' on one side and 14 on the other. They set forms last Friday, poured on Tuesday afternoon and left at 3 pm today. The roll up door guys come Monday. They did a little shaping work for me at no extra cost. Total turn-key cost: $15,325.

I will be doing the electric myself.

I live close to Falcon67 (he doesn't know it but I have been racing at Abilene while he was racing too!) in Abilene, Texas.

I can't wait to begin moving in tomorrow morning and using the tons of hints that I have gotten from the GJ bunch. Thanks guys!

Randy

 

[Shocker]

Here is a system I looked into before I just had mine stick built.

http://www.socketsystems.com/

Looks like a good system for a DIY job.