Looking for feedback or critcism

[trainman1385]

Four years ago I finished up a four year term as a city councilman and as a token of appreciation for my service to the community I was given a flag that was flown over the whitehouse in a nice wooden box. I have had it on display since then in my office. Today I had a veteren chew me out for displaying a flag that way, because he said only family members of veterans killed are allowed to display a folded flag. In all my years on this palnet I have never heard that, and it bothers me. What do you all think?

 

[shooting4life]

Re: Looking for feedback on critcism

I think do not worry about what other people think.

 

[TAMPAGT07]

Re: Looking for feedback on critcism

I've never heard of that either...

 

[Paul1956]

Re: Looking for feedback on critcism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title_4_of_the_United_States_Code

 

[4xdog]

Re: Looking for feedback on critcism

Never heard that, and can find no reference to displaying folded flags in the US Senate Congressional Research Service report on flag display.
http://www.senate.gov/reference/resources/pdf/RL30243.pdf

Seems to me if you're not going against any conventions or rules and you're showing the flag respect, you should be good to go.

 

[54FordPanel]

Re: Looking for feedback on critcism

I think the veteran would have bigger fish to fry than to pick on you for proudly displaying the American flag that you received as a gift. There are people who spit and stomp on the flag, he should start with them.

You know you are not disrespecting the flag or the families of those lost, or even that veteran who has a problem with your display of the flag. You have as much right to that flag as anybody else. You don't have to have served in the military to get a say on it.

It's your flag, and you're proud of it. Good enough.

 

[csp]

Re: Looking for feedback on critcism

My brother-in-law is an active duty USAF Colonel and gave us a flag folded in the same fashion and placed in a frame for a Christmas gift. It was a flag that flew with him over Afghanistan during combat.

If there was some sort of code against this type of display, the USAF wouldn't be letting their people give out gifts like that with official USAF documentation.

The guy is making **** up.

Edit: Families of fallen police and firefighters are presented flags folded in the same fashion. The US flag is representative of all US Citizens, not just veterans.

 

[A_Pmech]

Re: Looking for feedback on critcism

As CSP so rightly says:

Edit: Families of fallen police and firefighters are presented flags folded in the same fashion. The US flag is representative of all US Citizens, not just veterans.

(Emphasis mine)

I've found that some people in our armed forces only too easily forget that without the citizens of the United States behind them, they would be fighting wars to protect nothing, using sharpened sticks as weapons.

 

[trainman1385]

Re: Looking for feedback on critcism

Thanks, honestly I was offended by his remark because I woudl have served in the military if they would have taken me, Instead I have served as a city councilman, planning commission member, Electric service district board member, Volunteer Fireman and Scoutmaster

 

[Midnight_America]

Re: Looking for feedback on critcism

Four years ago I finished up a four year term as a city councilman and as a token of appreciation for my service to the community I was given a flag that was flown over the whitehouse in a nice wooden box. I have had it on display since then in my office. Today I had a veteren chew me out for displaying a flag that way, because he said only family members of veterans killed are allowed to display a folded flag. In all my years on this palnet I have never heard that, and it bothers me. What do you all think?

Don't lose sleep over it. No disrespect intended, but You were a councilman for four years and this is the first time a citizen went medieval on you? Consider yourself very, very, very, lucky. One needs to have a thick skin to be involved in politics. Politicians must deal face to face with their constituents, most of whom are insane, misinformed, and dangerous lunatics. I ran for public office once in my life and I would rather put a gun in my mouth and pull the trigger than run for public office again.

 

[brucer]

Re: Looking for feedback on critcism

Thanks, honestly I was offended by his remark because I woudl have served in the military if they would have taken me, Instead I have served as a city councilman, planning commission member, Electric service district board member, Volunteer Fireman and Scoutmaster

You might not want to compare your career in politics to what a soldier has sacrificed and or endured while serving.


This is probably why the veteran was pissed! I'm not certain that it is a written rule or such, I think its more etiquette..

A U.S. flag will be placed in a display case or frame if it is historic, if it was used during the funeral of a military veteran or mortally wounded soldier, or if it complements a display of medals or other patriotic items. Historic flags usually are displayed unfurled and behind glass in a traditional frame. Flags used during funerals are folded ceremoniously and can be displayed in a smaller, triangular case. Flags that complement other items should be displayed in accordance with flag etiquette.

 

[Daniel Dudley]

Re: Looking for feedback on critcism

Consider that for a veteran, looking at a flag folded like that could be something of a shock, and don't take it personally.

 

[nickv]

Re: Looking for feedback on critcism

After doing a bit of reading on flag etiquette, it appears many of our Presidents (across all parties), have a penchant for defacing the flag by putting their signature on it.

Also many of our Olympians, fail spectacularly at flag etiquette according to the link provided on this thread.

Nevertheless, I think it's stupid to get mad at someone for proudly displaying the US Flag when no ill was desired. There's more important things to get "mad" about.

 

[Glenn M.]

Re: Looking for feedback on critcism

As CSP so rightly says:



(Emphasis mine)

I've found that some people in our armed forces only too easily forget that without the citizens of the United States behind them, they would be fighting wars to protect nothing, using sharpened sticks as weapons.

??? And those citizens don't benefit from those who die using those sharpened sticks as weapons to defend them???

OP - I've never personally seen any law that says a folded flag in a display case is only used for presentation to family members of a deceased or mortally wounded veteran - and I would say that if your service is comparable to that of a fallen veteran, then you should proudly display it.

 

[justanengineer]

Re: Looking for feedback on critcism

Hate to break it to you, but yes, you broke tradition by displaying a flag in mourning. Display of flags indoors is pretty clearly discussed in the flag code, if you dont see it youre not supposed to do it. ONE exception is granted to this - a deceased serviceman's closest surviving relative may display one in their home, but even in garrison you wont find the post flag displayed while its in mourning (as in, during the night).

Is this typically forgotten in today's society? Yup. Do many knuckleheads even in our own military abuse the flag in this manner? Yup, you can buy that **** via AAFES on most posts. Do most even know the proper manner of folding a flag, the number of folds, or what each one represents? Hell no. Will many knowledgeable veterans chew your *** for doing so? You betcha!

I did quite a few funeral services when I was on active duty, hopefully I never see another ******* flag folded in that manner.

 

[HAY YOU]

Re: Looking for feedback on critcism

That's the way it was given to you & that's the way I would display it. And how old was the veteran?

 

[koditten]

I got one too. My grandmother wrote our congressman (senator now) and they flew it over the White house. It was sent with an official document stating this. Mine is in a display case and mounted to wall of my shop. I don't know if it is desrespectful to the flag, but I know I respect the flag. Right or wrong, the flag is staying on my wall.

 

[Slickster76]

http://www.senate.gov/reference/resources/pdf/RL30243.pdf


After I came home from serving 4 years in the Air Force, my father's friend (a Vietnam vet) told him that I wasn't a vet. I don't know what his friend's perception of what a vet is supposed to be. I say this because you have to be mindful that some people with opinions are not always correct or are just plain ignorant. I'm not an expert in anything. If I need to know the facts, I'll research them. Not guess or give my opinion of what I believe is correct.

 

[Mr_fixit]

You can't please everyone.

 

[justanengineer]

When the flag is displayed otherwise than from a staff, it should be displayed flat, whether indoors or out, or so suspended that it falls as free as though it were staffed.

 

[MoparTrucks]

There is nothing what so ever in the US Flag code about displaying flags in a case period (except for historical flags which would generally be displayed flat) for anyone including memorial flags for deceased Veterans and the Veteran who told you that is just incorrect.

I agree that it has been a tradition for a long time to present such flags to families of deceased Veterans, Policemen and Firemen but its not addressed in the US Flag code and if you read the legislative notes on the Flag Code: "No disrespect should be shown to the flag of the United States of America."Therefore, actions not specifically included in the Code may be deemed acceptable as long as proper respect is shown".

I received a flag in a display case from the Army when I retired and except for a hangover this morning I am pretty sure I am not deceased. Proudly displaying your flag in a respectful manner such as you are should be encouraged and you should feel no guilt in displaying it.

You don't have to serve in the military to be a loyal citizen proud of your country and any Veteran who looks down on their civilian brethren who never served needs a serious thinking realignment.

 

[jlckmj]

After reading that link on flag rules, and I find nothing wrong with what you are doing at all.

In my mind, you are not displaying or flying the flag, but rather storing a valued possession in a proper and respectful manner.

Jim

 

[James E]

Flag rules are just that--rules, not laws. They get VERY specific and not everybody delves to the bottom of the rulebook and memorizes every nuance. Some of these "rules" are more traditions than rules and traditions are hard to keep up with. This is confused even further by the fact that if you search for flag rules, you will often find incorrect, confusing and conflicting information, depending on your source.

Justanengineer's comments mirror what I have been taught during decades of Scouting. If I were given a flag like the OP has, I would do my best to display it on a staff in my office or flat in a frame. Unfortunately, most people don't have the room for that kind of display. I gave my Father a flag that flew over the Capitol Building on his wedding anniversary and he keeps it in its box because he does not have a place to mount it on a staff.

I think that most people are unaware of the signifigance of a folded flag and would assume that displaying it that way in a shadow box is acceptable. Technically, it is an improper display (if it's not from a casket) but it's such a specific technicality that personally, I wouldn't worry about it.

FWIW, whenever I see a folded flag displayed at someone's house or office, I ALWAYS assume it's a casket flag and will ask about it out of respect, so that they have an opportunity to tell me about their veteran relative. I would not presume to correct them if it turned out to be just a display flag. I am southern and my manners prevent me from doing so.

Edit: The Congressional Flag Code IS the rule of law, but enforcing penalties is prohibited.

 

[Glenn M.]

Flag rules are just that--rules, not laws. They get VERY specific and not everybody delves to the bottom of the rulebook and memorizes every nuance. Some of these "rules" are more traditions than rules and traditions are hard to keep up with. This is confused even further by the fact that if you search for flag rules, you will often find incorrect, confusing and conflicting information, depending on your source.

Justanengineer's comments mirror what I have been taught during decades of Scouting. If I were given a flag like the OP has, I would do my best to display it on a staff in my office or flat in a frame. Unfortunately, most people don't have the room for that kind of display. I gave my Father a flag that flew over the Capitol Building on his wedding anniversary and he keeps it in its box because he does not have a place to mount it on a staff.

I think that most people are unaware of the signifigance of a folded flag and would assume that displaying it that way in a shadow box is acceptable. Technically, it is an improper display (if it's not from a casket) but it's such a specific technicality that personally, I wouldn't worry about it.

FWIW, whenever I see a folded flag displayed at someone's house or office, I ALWAYS assume it's a casket flag and will ask about it out of respect, so that they have an opportunity to tell me about their veteran relative. I would not presume to correct them if it turned out to be just a display flag. I am southern and my manners prevent me from doing so.

Edit: The Congressional Flag Code IS the rule of law, but enforcing penalties is prohibited.

Especially when they're not taught or otherwise forwarded from generation to generation...

 

[HAY YOU]

On a side note, those flags that are flown over the Capital are run up the mast & straight back down almost like a production line. They don't fly for a day only a second. But I'm sure you already knew that.

 

[buddyboy]

i don't know what is right or wrong, but i do know that when i see a folded flag on display i think that it represents a dead person, military/fireman/policeman.

my dads flag is on display in my mom's house.

my father in law has one of those flags from the white house, he flys it every Fathers day and every holiday. when it's not flying it's folded in a box in the closet.

just like anything else, you can do whatever you wish, but people will interpet your actions based on their experiences.

so if a person asks 'who's' flag it is that you have on display don't act confused because the person disapproves when you tell them it's yours.

good luck

 

[wrench409]

One display of the flag out of respect negates every display of disrespect.

Display it proudly.

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[phill u7c]

I think that people lose sight of what a flag represents, it’s a symbol, it represents the spirit of, in your case, the American people. When I worked in the US I loved the fact that so many people proudly displayed the stars and stripes outside their homes. In the UK the local government has in the past, fined people from displaying the UK flag. So, as some many people here have said, it’s your flag and your obviously proud of it, and if a person has a problem with that. Then they have the problem not you.

 

[zakmartin]

OP: The guy who chewed you out obviously had a stick up his ***. My old man got a flag flown over the capitol dome in a box when he retired from NCIS and the US Army. He was a combat vet and would probably have told the guy to go f- himself.

 

[Band-aid Kid]

I got one when I retired. The unit gave them to everyone upon their retirement. Live and let live. Ignore him.

 

[Falcon67]

We have a flag in a display case at the drag strip. One (one of many) of our racers spends their time keeping the rest of us out of harm's way. Needless to say, all of us that run there are quite proud to be so well thought of.

 

[onewaydave]

Ditto on "just rules, not laws".

Evidence by just a few years ago all the rage in the news was about a citizen's "right" to burn a flag in protest.

Flag bikini's, jackets, bumper stickers, shirts...

My opinion is that I only expect one to be respectful. It irritates me more when I see flags flying at night without lighting. But, that is just me.

That you display the flag in a respectful manner and are proud of your service counts a lot.

Dave, Sargent of Marines, ret., thinking that makes me a veteran.

 

[Bib Overalls]

I received a cased flag when I retired from a combined 40 years of military and DOD civilian service. I was, at the time, (and remain) very much alive.