looking into solar: my thoughts

[vavet]

I'm just starting some research into equipping my home with solar panels. We had a local rep visit us Saturday to give a presentation and estimate.
Our roof size and orientation (nearly due south) give us the opportunity to easily replace 100% of our annual usage (about 15 kWh) with solar power. The panels (31 325w panels at 66x40 inches, each with their own microinverter) would occupy about 1/3 of the back part of our roof and would not be visible from the street. Our energy provider does annual net metering. They don't pay anything for overproduction, but energy we generate would be credited to us on a 1-for-1 basis over the course of a year.
The price is about 50% higher than I expected. That includes the 26% federal income tax credit.
It's not a slam dunk, but it's not a lost cause either. Depending on how you swing the numbers (time value of money, opportunity cost, interest rate, predictions of kWh rate in the future, etc) it might make sense.

All this has prompted me to take a more critical eye at our recent power bills and their billing rates and policies. Unlike some providers, our provider charges less per kWh when you use more power. The threshold is 800 kWh per month. It's a fixed rate for the first 800 kWh, but then the rates drop slightly above that. They break it out by transmission, generation, fuel, monthly basic charge, and then a whole bunch of riders for different things. The categories that have different rates based on use are distribution and generation. There's also different rates for taxes above 2500 kWh, but we're not even close to that. This seems like a disincentive to equip your home with solar, either fully or partially.

I'm going to continue some research, talk to more companies, and continue to play with my spreadsheets to see how it might make sense.

 

[vavet]

I stand corrected. After looking into some additional info, I found out that during the months of May through September, the generation rate increases from the first 800 kWh to 800+ kWh. The rest of the line items remain the same.

 

[PelicanPines]

Be careful... had an accountant and solar install owner friend talked me out of getting solar... installed on my roof. Install guy said ground installs tend to be better.

 

[JamesW84]

If you don't mind me asking, how much was the quote for the total installed setup?

 

[Git]

3 years later and I still think it is one of the best decisions I ever made. AND that is from a financial perspective, but I do like the clean energy part of it.

First thing you need whole years' worth of data from your power company so you know what you're working with. Annual usage in kWh and what your costs were for the year. If you're using 15,000 kWh annually, you're getting up in usage. What is your cost per kWh would be my next question?

In S Cal, they are now forcing new installations to use Time of Use rates. Electricity is more expensive in the late afternoon and evening hours and cheaper during the day and on weekends. In situations like that, having some west-facing panels can actually be advantageous since they will be producing more power during the peak times, but it is on a case by case situation.

Don't get hung up on the panels. I believe at this point in time, solar panels are like computer ram. As long as you go with a name brand, they are all basically the same. At the same time, make sure you are clear on how they are going to install the system on your roof which is probably the most important part. I have posted pics and info before on how they installed my system and I have been very happy with it. Also, I am very pleased with my LG Panels and SolarEdge inverter.

Do you need micro inverters or can you use optimizers and a string converter? (may be able to save some money). When I was looking at solar, I came to the conclusion that 'SunPower' was at the top when it came to equipment and installation. But, they come with a price - a SunPower system was about $10k more than my LG system. The reason why I mention them is SunPower has 'certified' installers which helps weed out these fly by night contractors. I had one quote me a SunPower system and they also gave me a quote on the LG system and I ended up going with them

https://us.sunpower.com/dealers-installers/find-dealer-installer

Any good installer is going to have modeling software which should give you a pretty good idea of how much a system will produce in your area based on your installation, weather etc. At that point, it is pretty easy to crunch the number to see how long it would take for you to break even. Here is a government web site where you can play around with thing yourself - panel orientation, etc

https://pvwatts.nrel.gov/

 

[BillK]

The other questions you have to ask are:

If you sell your house next year, what happens and what do you owe.

If you need to replace your roof what is it going to cost for them to come and pull the panels and re-install them after the roof is done.

What happens if one of the panels fails

 

[PCMusicGuy]

I had a coworker install some recently. He had 28 panels, LG, with micro-inverters. It was right at $28k, so I figure $1k per panel is a decent guesstimate. Here in the Houston area, on a modern house with good insulation I would expect your average annual electricity costs to be ~$1500. That is a long time to see that break even especially considering most don't stay in the same house here for more than 5 to 10 years.

With micro-inverter panels, you don't even get the benefit of stored energy with batteries when the electricity goes out, but at least you don't have to find room for them.

 

[cvairwerks]

Something to think about... If you go with roof mount, you need to factor in doing the roof at the same time. Having to have them come pull the system off for a roof job and reinstall it doesn’t come cheap.

Unless they have changed them, micro inverters are strictly a grid tie system. Lose the feed to the house and the solar goes down too. The advantage to micros tho is that you can install all the panel racking at the initial install and add inverters and panels at will until you max out the micro harness being used.

 

[Git]

If your shopping for a system, the best way to compare prices is by price per watt

You take the total 'out of pocket' price for the system - before any rebates, incentives, etc. Then divided the cost by the size of the system in kWh DC (not annual production)

So for example, if you paid $15,000 for a 5,000 kWh DC system, then the cost per watt is ($15,000 / 5000W =) $3 per watt. You can now use this number to compare costs between installers. In my area, some 'blow and go' installers are in the low $2 per watt range, but you get what you pay for...

Also, keep in mind the Federal incentive (I think it dropped to 27% this year) is a TAX Credit! So when it comes time to do your Federal Taxes, that number get subtracted from how much you needed to pay for federal taxes that year. It may take a couple of years to get your all your money back depending on how much you pay in taxes each year

 

[vavet]

Be careful... had an accountant and solar install owner friend talked me out of getting solar... installed on my roof. Install guy said ground installs tend to be better.

The roof is the only viable place for them in my situation. What was the drawback from their POVs?

If you don't mind me asking, how much was the quote for the total installed setup?

It started at a little over $40k. They offered a 5% winter discount and include the 26% federal tax refund to get it down to just below $30k.

First thing you need whole years' worth of data from your power company so you know what you're working with. Annual usage in kWh and what your costs were for the year. If you're using 15,000 kWh annually, you're getting up in usage. What is your cost per kWh would be my next question

Do you need micro inverters or can you use optimizers and a string converter? (may be able to save some money). When I was looking at solar, I came to the conclusion that 'SunPower' was at the top when it came to equipment and installation. But, they come with a price - a SunPower system was about $10k more than my LG system. The reason why I mention them is SunPower has 'certified' installers which helps weed out these fly by night contractors. I had one quote me a SunPower system and they also gave me a quote on the LG system and I ended up going with them

https://us.sunpower.com/dealers-installers/find-dealer-installer

Any good installer is going to have modeling software which should give you a pretty good idea of how much a system will produce in your area based on your installation, weather etc. At that point, it is pretty easy to crunch the number to see how long it would take for you to break even. Here is a government web site where you can play around with thing yourself - panel orientation, etc

https://pvwatts.nrel.gov/

We have all the data from the last year from our power company. We pay, on average, about 12.3 cents/kWh and used just over 15kWh last year on a 2800 sq ft house.
Thanks for the link. I'll play with that.

The other questions you have to ask are:

If you sell your house next year, what happens and what do you owe.

If you need to replace your roof what is it going to cost for them to come and pull the panels and re-install them after the roof is done.

What happens if one of the panels fails

The house is about 5 years old. I don't anticipate a reroof within the lifespan of these panels. I do anticipate still being there in 20 years.

I had a coworker install some recently. He had 28 panels, LG, with micro-inverters. It was right at $28k, so I figure $1k per panel is a decent guesstimate. Here in the Houston area, on a modern house with good insulation I would expect your average annual electricity costs to be ~$1500. That is a long time to see that break even especially considering most don't stay in the same house here for more than 5 to 10 years.

With micro-inverter panels, you don't even get the benefit of stored energy with batteries when the electricity goes out, but at least you don't have to find room for them.

The salesman said the same thing. You lose utility power, you lose the solar panel output. That seems odd to me. We already have an automatic transfer switch installed because we have a whole house generator. I can't believe they can't use that, but I'm new to this. Either way, not the end of the world for us because we have the propane fueled whole house generator.

Something to think about... If you go with roof mount, you need to factor in doing the roof at the same time. Having to have them come pull the system off for a roof job and reinstall it doesn’t come cheap.

Unless they have changed them, micro inverters are strictly a grid tie system. Lose the feed to the house and the solar goes down too. The advantage to micros tho is that you can install all the panel racking at the initial install and add inverters and panels at will until you max out the micro harness being used.

The house and roof are less than 5 years old. We have a 22kW backup generator, so loss of utility power means loss of solar panel power, but we'd still be OK.

 

[Git]

So if I have done the math correctly, you're paying roughly $1,800 yearly for electricity and it would take you over 16 years to break even on your $30k install cost?

Too long at that price. Personally, I wouldn't do it if it was more than 9 or 10 years

 

[PelicanPines]

Vavet, their issue... time to pay it off, as in payback. It was weird, my monthly cost for the first three years would have been TRIPLE my current E Bill... then it would drop to about even ... then not clear for seven years... so ten year payout...

How long do panels last, I asked... ten years... so I got nothing worth anything in ten years that I paid SIXTEEN years worth of electricity for.

New roof is a whole other issue. Leaks... they hold no liability for leak damage... beyond fixing the leak... ceilings, walls, personal items are your problem.

The guy that OWNED the solar install company could get the panels for FREE for his house... he refused because of all the potential problems.

 

[Git]

We have been down the New Jersey Solar Panel path before.... In fact, someone has even made a web page about it:

Solar Hall of Shame - New Jersey

Personally, I wouldn't use New Jersey for a reference point about anything

 

[seanc_mt]

Over those 16 years while you are waiting on your payback you could have taken that $30k invested it with a fund and made probably 6%. Compound it and you are looking at probably $15k return...

 

[walrus]

Over those 16 years while you are waiting on your payback you could have taken that $30k invested it with a fund and made probably 6%. Compound it and you are looking at probably $15k return...

Yup, thats the problem with Solar Pv systems. The media keeps saying they have dropped in cost but I can't get it lower than 12 yr payback if I pay someone to do it. I'd guess you can get it lower if you do it yourself.

 

[Git]

Solar is going to vary greatly depending on where you live and the current cost of electricity.

In S Cal, the cheapest I can pay for 1 kWh is $.22 and it rises to $.41 during peak weekday hours. I had solar installed 3 1/2 years ago and to date, the system has produced 71,160 kWh of electricity. Just using the cheapest rate ($.22) that is $15,655 worth of electricity and trust me, we pay the $.41 rate from time to time. Out of pocket was roughly $30k so we are on track to a 6-7 years payback. The next 18 years is profit and electrical rates are only going in one direction - UP

These aren't a salesman's ******** numbers to get you to buy, these are the cold hard facts. In another 3 1/2 years or so - the system will be paying me about $355 per month for the next 18 years or so

 

[PelicanPines]

We have been down the New Jersey Solar Panel path before.... In fact, someone has even made a web page about it:

Solar Hall of Shame - New Jersey

Personally, I wouldn't use New Jersey for a reference point about anything

Good point... but... that's where my Accountant, Solar Friend... and I live. Along with several other GJ'ers.

 

[Git]

Well, living in California, I shouldn't talk - but not all of California is like San Francisco, Berkley, Los Angeles, etc. S Cal is home to a lot of military bases like Camp Pendleton and a lot of us ended up just staying here once they got out. I would like to think that California has 'pockets of decency' here and there

 

[ace10]

My inlaws (also in VA) got snookered into a solar install. Slick salesguy. BS numbers.
I think the break even is sometime in the 23rd century. Joking, but it's a terrible deal IMO. I think it makes them feel good, though.

Virginia electricity is relatively cheap.
There aren't any state incentives, the last time I checked.

As mentioned above, please don't forget about the time value of money.

 

[GRB]

A friend was pretty much in an ideal situation for solar. Big electric bill at $1200-1800/mo, lots of roof facing the right direction, with no shadows from anything. Not visible from anywhere but an airplane.
$53K install cost dropped his electric bill to zero monthly but then he would get a bill each year for about $4K. When he sold after 8 years, it cost $46k to buy out the contract for the buyer to get the system. Break even would have been at 20 years supposedly but that is the expected life of the system.
About the only benefit was not having to worry about being energy efficient and put the thermostat where you want it.
I think you have to look very hard at the options and not just assume it is a good idea. Eventually, it will be the way most of us generate a big part of the power for our houses.

 

[slow]

WOW on interest rate, 8 years of 4K payments and only taking 7K off principal! Here with sub $0.10 kwh delivered, I can't make a business case for solar, but friends who have a different power company just a few miles away pay significantly more between usage and higher base cost and could make the numbers work. One friend just installed a 20kw system.

 

[GRB]

WOW on interest rate, 8 years of 4K payments and only taking 7K off principal! Here with sub $0.10 kwh delivered, I can't make a business case for solar, but friends who have a different power company just a few miles away pay significantly more between usage and higher base cost and could make the numbers work. One friend just installed a 20kw system.

The $4k was a yearly fee to the electric company. The first one came as a totally unexpected shock to him. The payments on the $53K system were supposed to be covered by the excess generation of electricity on this huge system. I think it was 86 panels. Those credits clearly weren't covering very much principal.
People get shocked by the high electric bill and then tend to see just the $0 monthly cost. Just like poeple buying a car and only seeing the payment.

 

[tyme2par4]

To the OP, your price of $40k before tax credits for a 10kW system is not a great price. You would do good to call around to some other local companies for quotes. Once you have a few, you ought to be able to negotiate down a bit more as well.

As far as losing power when the grid goes down, that is true in most cases, with 95% of residential systems. If you are getting Enphase micro inverters they did recently come out with a battery back-up system. They use small modular batteries and the system can island itself. No idea on the pricing or availability at this time though.

PelicanPines, I'm not sure who your friend is, but he sounds like someone responsible for giving solar a bad name. PV panels will easily last 20 years, and in fact carry a 20 year warranty. So in reality, they will likely last closer to 30 years. Inverters typically only have a 10 year warranty, but I think Enphase has a 25 year warranty on their new products.
As for leaks, their liability would depend on the contract you sign. The more reputable companies are going to cover more, and are going to do a better job to prevent leaks. A properly installed system should never leak.

I installed a 6kW system on my parents roof about 3 years ago. Total cost was under $8k before incentives, but I did the install myself. We did have an inverter failure, but SolarEdge sent out a new one without too much hassle.

 

[slow]

The $4k was a yearly fee to the electric company. The first one came as a totally unexpected shock to him. The payments on the $53K system were supposed to be covered by the excess generation of electricity on this huge system. I think it was 86 panels. Those credits clearly weren't covering very much principal.
People get shocked by the high electric bill and then tend to see just the $0 monthly cost. Just like poeple buying a car and only seeing the payment.

Wow, I can agree with that payment comment.

 

[Git]

I installed a 6kW system on my parents roof about 3 years ago. Total cost was under $8k before incentives, but I did the install myself. We did have an inverter failure, but SolarEdge sent out a new one without too much hassle.

My SolarEdge inverter came with a 12-year warranty but the installer added a factory extended warranty that will cover it for 25 years

price list:
https://www.solaredge.com/sites/default/files/warranty-extension-pricelist.pdf

how to buy:
https://www.solaredge.com/warranty

 

[MFolks]

Another thought; are you in a hail zone,and how resistant are the panels to hail damage?

 

[kmacht]

Be careful with using the ability to sell back solar power to the grid in your calculations. What are you going to do if that goes away in the next 10 to 20 years. A number of states are moving to make it so that is no longer an option. The lobbying ability of the power companies are much bigger than those of the small solar startups and they are starting to use that power in congress and state legislatures since they started to see the potential of all the lost revenue when there was a big push for solar a few years back.

 

[Lassen Forge]

Our neighbor installed microinverter panels, no one told us the RFI coming off those would totally mess up our ham radio reception... nothing we can do about it now (tho we have all kinds of filters trying to block it), but I learned the hard way if I get panels I'll get regular ones with a separate inverter and a battery stack...

 

[tyme2par4]

Another thought; are you in a hail zone,and how resistant are the panels to hail damage?

Most solar panels are designed and tested to withstand up to 1" hail.
Larger than that, you would rely on your insurance to cover repairs, the same as you would if hail damaged your roof.

 

[vrinner]

I've put in a 36 LG Neon2 panel system with Solaredge inverters. We went with a local company that was recommended from a friend and their cost was half what the big name/radio advertising companies were quoting for the exact same system.
We ended up getting a slightly bigger system than needed figuring we can put in A/C in the garage if we want and not worry about cost.

The thing I hate is that SCE still has monthly fees that for me add up to about $26-$28 per month. I have to pay these regardless of how much power I generate.

 

[CJ7VFR]

The $4k was a yearly fee to the electric company. The first one came as a totally unexpected shock to him....

Damn, that is a harsh fee/pill to swallow. And getting it every year is even worse.

I have heard that some electrical supply companies charge fees for using their "grid" items, such as wires, transformers, and other power equipment, that they apply to people with solar on their homes, with the reason being solar homes are not using as much supplied power as others who are not using solar, but you are still using their grid tied items for when you are not on solar power.

Could that be the fee your friend is paying?

Solar is going to vary greatly depending on where you live and the current cost of electricity.

In S Cal, the cheapest I [/B]can pay for 1 kWh is $.22 and it rises to $.41 during peak weekday hours...

Holy ****, 41 cents a kilowatt hour! That is outrageous.

Where I live in New Jersey, my electric company is JCP&L. My current rate for a kilowatt hour is 12 cents. That is 24 hours a day, every day of the week. You are literally paying just shy of 3.5 times that rate out there in CA. No wonder you went with solar!

The bill for my house in the July and August, with the central air conditioning running, as well as all the other things that people use electric for, runs about $135.00 a month for those two months. All the other months my average electric bill is just shy of $100.00. I have a 2000 sqft, two floor Cape Code style home for reference.

Jim

 

[Git]

You, unfortunately, installed solar after they changed to Net Metering 2.0 and was one of the main reasons I had my system installed when I did.

This is my Jan 2020 bill, which is about average for me

 

[sleek98]

I also have a large system installed, 11.92 KW I believe. If your back roof is south facing ditch the micro inverters and go with a traditional string inverter.

I got 3 quotes, on was 3.50 a watt, one was almost 4 a watt, the third one and the one we went with was 2.85 a watt but after the fed tax credit and local utility rebate I was out 18,000 out of pocket for the system, which is around 1.50 a watt installed. Get 4/5/6 quotes and have them give you both micro and string if you really want a micro inverters

We have the same heat pump winter rates, where the more we use the cheaper it gets but if you size the system correctly it doesn't matter the overall savings are great. If we were on the non-electric heat plan it would shave about 2 years off our payback, which is sitting at 8 years after 10 months of having it turned on.

I will say it is not a great fit for everyone, but if the back of your house is south facing with no trees then your are likely a prime candidate for a system. If my house was on the other side of the street I wouldn't have done it.

My system will still run if the power goes out, but ONLY if I go down and flip 2 switches to disconnect it from the grid and then it will only power the plugs at the inverters, enough to run the fridge and charge phones if needed. If it does not go down when the lineman comes out to repair the line you will be back feeding electric into the line, that should be dead, and possibly hurt them.

I have attached my last 12 month comparison, my summer months were in the mid 200s before the system. In may they owed me $4 and it was credited towards the next 2 months bills.

I have also been tracking my ROI and for this year I am at 11-12%. We actually added 2 panels right at the end since I have 2 little kids and we assumed my needs would go up as they get older, if I didnt add those two it would have boosted our ROI a touch, maybe 1/2% or so.

the panels I have came with a 25 year production guarantee, meaning that it will put out atleast 80% of the rates w in year 25 or they will replace them.

The manufacture also showed them parking a toyota tundra on them, after being up for a year I don't think anything will really hurt it.

Another item to consider is some insurance companies will not cover them, I tend to swap insurance companies every 2 or so years due to price increases (with no claims) and when I did the last go around 2 companies flat out said no coverage for them, progressive and another random company. They would insure the house but if something happened to them they wouldnt cover it.

 

[dcg9381]

Be careful... had an accountant and solar install owner friend talked me out of getting solar... installed on my roof. Install guy said ground installs tend to be better.

(Very Part Time) Solar (and wind) installer here:
It makes NO difference what the panels are mounted on. Roof or ground. What matters is pitch, compass orientation, and possible shade. Both can be tilted to "ideal" - but most roof installs are not. Ground installs are easier to orient and tilt. For installers, WAY less liability to install on the ground.

My cost, for self-installed solar, is roughly $1.30 per watt for systems between 5-10KW. That's all in with mounting hardware and all the misc stuff required.

Margins on systems that I've installed are between 35-50%.

DO NOT lease these systems unless you have a buy-back guarantee and a performance guarantee. I see so many people that are sold on "pays your power bill" - systems fall short of that and they're out money monthly until the cost of power rises. Also look at what it takes to get out of the lease (in the case of a sale). Solar is NOT attractive to all buyers and many will ask you to remove your "ugly" solar system if you go to sell your home.

Be careful with using the ability to sell back solar power to the grid in your calculations. What are you going to do if that goes away in the next 10 to 20 years.

Respectfully, I think this is "fear" based thinking. What's more likely (my opinion) is that the cost of power will continue to go up. My "guess" - in the event that big oil (or similar) squashes the solar industry, existing systems would be grandfathered. Likely, what might happen is they expire the federal credit, which will put a big dent in the industry. Right now, it's good till 2022.



Reality is that our grid cannot operate on a majority of solar power. Other countries already have this problem. We're good until utilization of solar reaches around 20% or so (off the top of my head) - within that bound, the grid can make up the difference on high demand days where there is no direct sunlight...but when the grid gets heavily solar dependent, things can go sideways....

The thing I hate is that SCE still has monthly fees that for me add up to about $26-$28 per month. I have to pay these regardless of how much power I generate.

Yes, how the PoC handles this needs to be looked at. Here, there is no additional fee beyond a $50 one-time permit and meter change.

Here, we "net meter" - so I get $1 credit for $1 usage, but as soon as I'm "over producing" I get paid back at the wholesale rate for power, which is a fraction of what power cost. IE - for me, it's not worth it to over produce. It's worth it to "net produce" to zero every month... And they look at usage and production then do the math every month.

My system will still run if the power goes out, but ONLY if I go down and flip 2 switches to disconnect it from the grid and then it will only power the plugs at the inverters, enough to run the fridge and charge phones if needed.

Worth noting: Most solar systems (exception is one mentioned above) will NOT power anything if grid power goes down. This ain't a disaster prep solution, unless it's setup that way from the beginning and has banks of batteries. For disaster recovery, a generator is a better option.

 

[tarmy]

You, unfortunately, installed solar after they changed to Net Metering 2.0 and was one of the main reasons I had my system installed when I did.

This is my Jan 2020 bill, which is about average for me

I read all this thread...and your posts in particular (we are in NorCal).

Do you have any comments/thoughts on your system, or solar system in general, and these wonderful rolling blackouts?

With all the governors’ talk of taking over power companies in this state...do you have comments about getting “paid” for excess generation...which is one of the big alleged benefits.

Thanks...great info from many of the posts...

 

[Git]

SMA SunnyBoy makes an inverter with an outlet. I considered it at the time, but people expressed concerns about what happens to the voltage/amperage etc, if some clouds happen to pass over and the power output drops? (Also, it had a max of only 2,000 watts)

 

[Git]

I read all this thread...and your posts in particular (we are in NorCal).

Do you have any comments/thoughts on your system, or solar system in general, and these wonderful rolling blackouts?

With all the governors’ talk of taking over power companies in this state...do you have comments about getting “paid” for excess generation...which is one of the big alleged benefits.

Thanks...great info from many of the posts...

No - it is definitely not worth it to overproduce in my opinion (and we do every year)

In S Cal with SCE, when you go solar, you are placed on a yearly plan that starts the day your system goes active. They call it 'true up' but basically you 'settle up' every year on your anniversary date of when the system went live. And, SCE limits the size of your system to 120% of your prior year's usage, and we had to get special permission to get the 120%

You may have to pay a small monthly bill to cover line transmission fees, taxes, etc. but due to the nature of solar, during the summer months you may end up using more electricity than your system produces. But during the Fall and Spring months, you will probably produce more than you use. Right now with my 'True Up' date in July, I am about $500 in the hole - we have used more electricity than the panels produced. But, March through June, we produce more than we use and we will end up in July with excess production.

The problem is when you overproduce - when it comes to the True Up, SCE is only going to pay the Wholesale rate, which is about $.02 per kWh. So it's really not worth it. I usually take the option to just roll it over for credit

When it comes to rolling power outages - I have looked into the Tesla power wall. It has to be sized for you system, so we would need two batteries. Costs are around $21k installed for my system, and with incentives, I would still be looking at around $13k out of pocket. I just can't justify that. If I was really concerned, I would just buy a whole house generator from Costco and have it installed. I do have a small dual fuel generator, but really we don't have too many outages where I live

Here is what my solar production looked like for the last year, July to July Even in December and January, it is still producing 1,000 kWh per month

I should add - I would not want to be a PG&E customer - your rates are going to do nothing but go up!

 

[tyme2par4]

I read all this thread...and your posts in particular (we are in NorCal).

Do you have any comments/thoughts on your system, or solar system in general, and these wonderful rolling blackouts?

With all the governors’ talk of taking over power companies in this state...do you have comments about getting “paid” for excess generation...which is one of the big alleged benefits.

Thanks...great info from many of the posts...

If I was in NorCal, I would definitely be looking into battery backup.

Generac recently acquired a small inverter/battery company out of Maine that makes a great product. I think Generac is marketing pretty hard in California with this option now.
Pika Energy is the company. They make a pretty robust inverter and a modular battery system that should be cheaper than Tesla, and you won't have to wait 6 months to a year to get your hands on one.

 

[dcg9381]

As I understand it, battery backup requires fairly substantial re-wire of existing circuits. For the Tesla battery - output is limited and you need to choose specific circuits. It'd be expensive on existing construction.

And at what these batteries cost, you're easily into "whole house" generator range at a fraction of the price of 2 Tesla batteries.

IE - it's cheaper to do a generator to handle the occasional brown out. This is what I'm doing in my own home. IE - add an ATS to the main and cover all of it. I looked a Tesla and other battery options, but it made no sense to do it that way for me.

The battery wall makes sense as a cost savings option in certain geographies where the cost of power varies throughout the day. IE - you can store power when cheap and use it when expensive. I don't think many people fall into this category and again, you're into a lot of house electrical re-engineering if your home already is up.

 

[tyme2par4]

As I understand it, battery backup requires fairly substantial re-wire of existing circuits. For the Tesla battery - output is limited and you need to choose specific circuits. It'd be expensive on existing construction.

And at what these batteries cost, you're easily into "whole house" generator range at a fraction of the price of 2 Tesla batteries.

IE - it's cheaper to do a generator to handle the occasional brown out. This is what I'm doing in my own home. IE - add an ATS to the main and cover all of it. I looked a Tesla and other battery options, but it made no sense to do it that way for me.

The battery wall makes sense as a cost savings option in certain geographies where the cost of power varies throughout the day. IE - you can store power when cheap and use it when expensive. I don't think many people fall into this category and again, you're into a lot of house electrical re-engineering if your home already is up.

rewiring should be relatively the same as adding a transfer switch for a generator, not extensive re-engineering.
Yes, a generator will probably be a bit cheaper in the installation, but then you will have fuel costs. And depending how long the outages are (I've heard they can be multiple days) you need to plan to store a lot of fuel. Adding a large propane tank can be expensive if you aren't using it often. If you have access to cheap natural gas, then that is probably the best option.