Looking to start insulating

[Dugan]

I have a 30x40x14' pole barn.

It gets hot and hell and there is no air movement with a 10k CFM ceiling fan, a floor fan at the door pointing in and a just installed 20" exhaust fan from QCSupply.

I though the exhaust fan would pull air into the shop, but it seems to just be pulling air from my ridge vents..

I was thinking of insulating the ceiling to allow a space for the ridge vents to the peak vent and separate that from the actually garage space...

Found this stuff.

http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/productImages/400/4c/4cc05a0b-7901-4c31-86a7-1a47d501971e_400.jpg


Is this a good idea or does someone have a better idea? I called for a spray foam estimate... I was thinking like 2k to do the whole garage... it was 5k for the walls alone...

I just need something that allows me to pull air from my large door and to the other end of the shop, where my lift is haha.


As you can see my garage is a dead zone in the back when it comes to air movement..

 

[aap71]

Hah! The Marlboro garage can't breathe... No, I kid. $5k for closed-cell spray foam is too much. Just the walls? You'd never recoup in energy savings. It does go to show though just how large 1200 sq ft is with high ceilings. The roof is metal, I presume? What color?

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[Dugan]

Hah! The Marlboro garage can't breathe... No, I kid. $5k for closed-cell spray foam is too much. Just the walls? You'd never recoup in energy savings. It does go to show though just how large 1200 sq ft is with high ceilings. The roof is metal, I presume? What color?

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Haha thats a good one. Its a sign we took from back in the day at Indy speedway during an indy car race. it has to be 25 years old. My mom just found it in her house and asked if I wanted it.


Roof is darker green and metal. This is why i wanted to possibly do a reflective barrier.

Yea the quote for the walls was around 4500$ give or take and it was only because I could give him the exact wall sizes, he said hed have to measure the roof..

 

[Fueler]

If you go the reflective route look at this stuff. http://www.warehousefoil.com/
I used this in my home attic and it did help but it's not a replacement for insulation. Probably should do both.
I have insulation on my pole barn roof and have been contemplating adding the reflective foil also. Rent a man lift and staple it up there.

I also have been leaning toward using foil covered insulation board. I think it would be less awkward to put up. My neighbor did that to his shorter conventional garage and it looks good as well as providing some insulation. Available in thicker, higher R values.
http://www.menards.com/main/buildin...so-rigid-foam-insulation/p-1356987-c-5779.htm

 

[Dugan]

If you go the reflective route look at this stuff. http://www.warehousefoil.com/
I used this in my home attic and it did help but it's not a replacement for insulation. Probably should do both.
I have insulation on my pole barn roof and have been contemplating adding the reflective foil also. Rent a man lift and staple it up there.

I also have been leaning toward using foil covered insulation board. I think it would be less awkward to put up. My neighbor did that to his shorter conventional garage and it looks good as well as providing some insulation. Available in thicker, higher R values.
http://www.menards.com/main/buildin...so-rigid-foam-insulation/p-1356987-c-5779.htm

That warehouse foil is rather cheap. Might be a good option.. Ive just seen the prices of the foil backed insulation at HD and lowes and almost cried at how much it would cost haha.

If I went with the foil, I believe getting a vapor barrier type would be best. right?

 

[Fueler]

The reflective does what it does. Reflects. Others more smart may say you need the vapor barrier but I don't think so. Think about it. The foam guy was just going to plaster plastic mud up there and say adios.

A DIY version would be that foil based foam board I mentioned. One step and done
OR
for insulation between the roof boards this stuff kicks ****. http://www.homedepot.com/p/Roxul-Co...-Wool-Insulation-12-Roll-RXCB351525/202090820
Follow up with the foil if desired.

Might go through the warehouse foil videos and articles. They do a good job of showing what and what not to expect from it. Not too much smoke blowing in other words.

 

[Dugan]

The reflective does what it does. Reflects. Others more smart may say you need the vapor barrier but I don't think so. Think about it. The foam guy was just going to plaster plastic mud up there and say adios.

A DIY version would be that foil based foam board I mentioned. One step and done
OR
for insulation between the roof boards this stuff kicks ****. http://www.homedepot.com/p/Roxul-Co...-Wool-Insulation-12-Roll-RXCB351525/202090820
Follow up with the foil if desired.

Might go through the warehouse foil videos and articles. They do a good job of showing what and what not to expect from it. Not too much smoke blowing in other words.

Yea, my main goal is to cool the garage down and maybe not fully insulate but cut down on the drafts in the winter and oven effect in the summer. My issue is that I use my walls to hang things, so using full batts would be an issue.

 

[CNGsaves]

Get spray foam estimate for CEILING only . . . that's your primary heat loss point. Still likely scary expensive so you'll opt for plan B.

If too much for foam ceiling, then plan on building drop ceiling of some sort and put in blown cellulose insulation for ceiling, and close in walls for insulation of your choice (anything is better than fiberglass) so cellulose or roxul would be better . . . or could have mix of 1" spray on walls and rest loose.

 

[Fueler]

The walls are easy once you get around to them but the ceiling/roof is what needs addressed first and will give you the biggest bang for the buck.
At the moment you bascially have an oversized easy-bake oven.

 

[Dugan]

The walls are easy once you get around to them but the ceiling/roof is what needs addressed first and will give you the biggest bang for the buck.
At the moment you bascially have an oversized easy-bake oven.

hahaha, yes the other night I was standing there and wondering how those individuals felt back in Auschwitz.

 

[Dugan]

http://delawaresprayfoam.com/index.php

Found a local company, they use open cell. Is there an advantage to open vs closed?

 

[accokeekwoods]

The short answer is that open cell has a lower R value and in reasonable thickness is not an impermeable barrier, but is somewhat cheaper to install from a material POV. IIRC, closed cell has an R value of ~=6 per inch. The following is from a DOE manual:

"Closed-cell foam is the most effective, with an insulation value of around R-6.2 per inch of thickness. Open-cell foam cells are not as dense and are filled with air, which gives the insulation a spongy texture. Open-cell foam insulation value is around R-3.7 per inch of thickness."

So for equivalent insulation value you need about twice as much open cell as closed cell. Hope this helps, spent a lot of time researching spary foam and finally went with closed cell foam, but shop for quotes! Mine varied by more than 100% for 4" of closed cell spray foam installed.

 

[Dugan]

The short answer is that open cell has a lower R value and in reasonable thickness is not an impermeable barrier, but is somewhat cheaper to install from a material POV. IIRC, closed cell has an R value of ~=6 per inch. The following is from a DOE manual:

"Closed-cell foam is the most effective, with an insulation value of around R-6.2 per inch of thickness. Open-cell foam cells are not as dense and are filled with air, which gives the insulation a spongy texture. Open-cell foam insulation value is around R-3.7 per inch of thickness."

So for equivalent insulation value you need about twice as much open cell as closed cell. Hope this helps, spent a lot of time researching spary foam and finally went with closed cell foam, but shop for quotes! Mine varied by more than 100% for 4" of closed cell spray foam installed.

What company did you use? Thanks for all the info. Your not that far away, wonder if the company would travel.

 

[shadyluke]

I have the bubble insulation on my ceiling and if I keep the doors closed its not too bad but I haven't started working out there yet. Is your door insulated ?

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[Dugan]

I have the bubble insulation on my ceiling and if I keep the doors closed its not too bad but I haven't started working out there yet. Is your door insulated ?

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yea the door is insulated

 

[Dugan]

I dont know why people like sauna's.... its annoying dripping sweat when working on stuff and wondering if its leaking or if its just from you leaking.. hahaha

 

[Dugan]

I thought the 4000CFM exhaust fan would help more... it really doesnt.. makes that 200$ feel worthless

 

[INTMD8]

Just want to say that if you can make it happen, I don't think you will be disappointed in closed cell foam.

I had my 36x47 pole building done and on a hot day it almost feels like you are walking into a refrigerator. (and there is no a/c yet).

Everyone who's been over helping out with it can't believe how nice it stays in there.

 

[Dugan]

Just want to say that if you can make it happen, I don't think you will be disappointed in closed cell foam.

I had my 36x47 pole building done and on a hot day it almost feels like you are walking into a refrigerator. (and there is no a/c yet).

Everyone who's been over helping out with it can't believe how nice it stays in there.

Would you mind saying how much that cost you? Did you do 2" or 4"?

 

[INTMD8]

It was supposed to be 2" on the walls and 3" on the ceiling but ended up a bit thicker on the ceiling (in most spots). Cost was $5500 though most quotes I received were in the 7-10k range.

 

[Dugan]

It was supposed to be 2" on the walls and 3" on the ceiling but ended up a bit thicker on the ceiling (in most spots). Cost was $5500 though most quotes I received were in the 7-10k range.

See 5500 for a full garage that size isnt bad. When he told me almost 5k for just the walls i about spit my drink out.

 

[INTMD8]

My walls are only 8ft so that's a big difference in area as well.

 

[cpayne5]

Bummer about the fan not working. I'm subscribed to your build thread, so was interested to hear if it helped.

I have a 40x60. When built, I had them put the bubble wrap radiant insulation on the ceiling. I did not have it installed on the walls. Wish I had. Kind of a pain to go back and do it right now. I think it helps on the ceiling. You can feel the heat radiating from the walls from several feet away. The sun beats down on it. My walls are tan with dark green wainscoting.

My building is just for personal, hobby use. It freezes you out in the winter and sweats you out in the summer. I picked up some pedestal fans this summer from my mother who no longer had a use for them. I don't know the specs, but they move a lot of air. And even just having them blow hot air over you helps. I do find myself turning them off to keep them from blowing rust or oil in my eyes when I'm working under a car on the lift.

I put one fan across the shop from the other. So, One blows into the back of the other one. Not sure if it's the best way to do it, but it is certainly more tolerable in there as opposed to last summer.

I can relate to you sweat/leak comment. Many times I've looked to see where that clear liquid has leaked from only to realize it ran out of my gloves when I raised my arm to reach something...

If I had the money, I'd spray foam the whole thing. I don't, so I'm going to continue to freeze and sweat. Spray foam and a HVAC system. Maybe one day.

 

[rancherbill]

Put in a ceiling and blown insulation.

 

[Dugan]

Reviving my old thread. IF I was to use plastic to block off my gable and ridge vents to the garage area, BUT allow them to breathe to each other could this help out at all? Including with moisture issues?

 

[Evilunclegrimace]

Try looking up BIG *** fans. They are not cheap but they move lots of air.

 

[Dugan]

Try looking up BIG *** fans. They are not cheap but they move lots of air.

I have some 10k cfm fans already, the BAF to me isnt worth 5k