Looks like I made a mistake....

[justanengineer]

Hey -- justanengineer -- I'd be willing to bet $8k is a "huge' problem for the vast majority of posters on this forum -- nothing like kickin' a guy when he's down!

Nobody’s arguing that $8k is a lot of money. My point was that it shouldn’t be a project-halting amount as in the OP, and I doubt you’ll find many folks hiring new construction without cash available to cover significant cost overruns and emergencies. **** happens during construction but the project needs to get finished. If you doubt it read a few of the posts on material cost increases, job layoffs, or other unexpected issues.

As to kicking someone while they’re down, apparently you also missed the fact that I was the only one reassuring the OP that his money isn’t lost. Listening to the mostly bad advice on this thread and presumptively taking legal action against a potentially honest business is a really good way to lose a lot of money and ruin your own reputation tho. Sue me for no reason and you’ll pay my lawyer’s bill + quite a few hours of my time before I start telling friends. Ten days incommunicado while waiting for construction to begin is nothing, esp given the OP’s admission that he’s been calling/texting constantly. Getting uppity bc construction hasn’t started two weeks after paying for materials is similarly silly, many wait MONTHS after making down payments for work to begin and this time of year the weather constantly screws schedules.

TLDR? - be reasonable.


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[twistedstang]

So the guy gets busy for 10 days and you’re calling the cops, lawyers, and state AG? Good grief, I hope you don’t expect to ever need a reasonably-priced contractor in that area again.
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Chances are the contractor has other jobs he's finishing up. Its not uncommon for a contractor to receive around 100 calls, texts, emails a day from customers, suppliers, subcontractors, inspectors, etc.

If you've done your homework and hired a reputable builder that's licensed and bonded, give him some time. "Able to start soon" could mean a month. Especially if there are other materials needed to get going. Especially with the Covid backups.

 

[twistedstang]

I had to put 25k up front for a 50k shop. It took about a month to see any activity.

 

[The Tool Tyrant]

PSM...One way to make sure this NEVER happens to you is to use a 'FUND CONTROL'. This is quite common in California and is usually administered by a lumber company or a bank. Your money/ loan is placed into an account, a progress payment schedule is set-up and the contractor gets paid after the fund control inspector has visited the site and confirmed that the work has been completed to that point.

This helps folks that are not savvy to construction while assuring the contractor that he WILL be paid if he performs.

 

[patterg2003]

There is a lesson here. The project may have a contract price but there is a way to protect ones self. I had two building projects that used an architect and they administered the contract. It was a good eye opener. The general submitted for payment with time sheets for the hours, rental costs and material costs and verification of the work done once a month for the work in that period. The contractor was paid on the basis of work performed and materials brought on site. It would be good to get the payment terms in the contract. It is also a way of getting a contractor that is solvent and not one living hand to mouth. This arrangement allows the contractor to pay his bills in a timely manner and not out of pocket. Once the work is done then the contractor submits a bill for the balance of the contract. Where I live an owner can hold back 10% of the contractor for 30 days and has the contractor give him a letter from his sub trades and suppliers that they are paid in full. That is to avoid a lien for unpaid contractors and suppliers. A nominal payment could be made at the outset to show good faith.

I would suggest talking to the contractor at his office and catch him in a calm manner. People are like dogs. If some one comes on strong then the other is going to bark back and it escalates where no one wants to go. Ask him what is going on in his life and what is going on with your project. Tell him that your lawyer suggested that you two talk as it it could get expensive and ugly for everyone. He may come around and get back at it. If not he believes that you have been talking to the lawyer and will have to brace for what is to come. The hourly cost of a lawyer will be about that of the contractors crew for a day.

 

[8pack]

I have a similar situation....too stressful to re-hash here, but I am probably out close to $20k as a big chunk of the work has to be done over. He stole about $4k in materials that were never delivered and I put 50% down on another part of the job he started and ghosted on.....It is overwhelming to think about dealing with Lawyers, the AG etc. He occasionally responds to texts and says he will finish the job but never shows up.

I am going to have to figure out how to reduce the damage/impact and move on.

It's not the first time I have been burned and I am always caught off guard when it happens.....

 

[drmarkr]

You could always post his name up on Pirate 4x4 and let them handle it....lol!! The dude's name isn't Charlie Wenzel, is it?!?!

https://www.pirate4x4.com/threads/d60-rear-4-88s-35-spline.399203/

 

[CTyankee]

Chances are the contractor has other jobs he's finishing up. Its not uncommon for a contractor to receive around 100 calls, texts, emails a day from customers, suppliers, subcontractors, inspectors, etc.

If you've done your homework and hired a reputable builder that's licensed and bonded, give him some time. "Able to start soon" could mean a month. Especially if there are other materials needed to get going. Especially with the Covid backups.

I'd tend to agree...if the guy didn't have 8 grand of my money. I think some communication isn't asking a lot. If a builder doesn't want to be "bothered" then don't take any money up front.

 

[Tim Kennedy]

justanengineer:
OK - went back & read your original post -- I must be missing something -- where in that post do you reassure the OP that his money isn't lost + how would you know that? Then - in your second post: "Nobody's arguing that $8k is a lot of money" & then back in the first post, you're basically telling him if he can't afford to lose it -- tough!
How do you know what he can afford?

Bottom line -- the OP may or may not be out the 8k - time will tell - let's hope this issue gets resolved to every ones satisfaction.

To the OP -- 383 240z: My offer of time/tools still stands.

 

[Git]

PSM...One way to make sure this NEVER happens to you is to use a 'FUND CONTROL'. This is quite common in California and is usually administered by a lumber company or a bank. Your money/ loan is placed into an account, a progress payment schedule is set-up and the contractor gets paid after the fund control inspector has visited the site and confirmed that the work has been completed to that point.

This helps folks that are not savvy to construction while assuring the contractor that he WILL be paid if he performs.

Well, actually, California specifies the initial deposit can be no greater 10% of the project or $1,000 - Whichever is less. Then you make progress payments, not allowing the money to get ahead of the work and finally you have

 

[karoc]

I have a similar situation....too stressful to re-hash here, but I am probably out close to $20k as a big chunk of the work has to be done over. He stole about $4k in materials that were never delivered and I put 50% down on another part of the job he started and ghosted on.....It is overwhelming to think about dealing with Lawyers, the AG etc. He occasionally responds to texts and says he will finish the job but never shows up.

I am going to have to figure out how to reduce the damage/impact and move on.

It's not the first time I have been burned and I am always caught off guard when it happens.....

Shame things like this happens but it does, hard to believe that there are people out there who takes advantage of others who give them benefit that they are equally honest. I did and loss about 600.00, with my small budget that lot of money

 

[LS6 Tommy]

FYI -- Guys that want big payments upfront ... always a flag.

For the type of stuff I'm involved with we typically do something along the lines of 10% up front, 20% at 30% complete, 30% at 60% complete and 40% at final approved closing. That varies a little, but with home construction projects it's often progress based, you pay **% for foundation, **% for septic, **% for framing/decking, etc...

Tommy

 

[Showkey]

When the contractor is limited by the allowable down payment.........wonder..........how many times the homeowner sticks the contractor with materials and other costs. When the homeowner bails on the project because of stuff like changed my mind, lost my job, divorce, illness etc

Seems like in California the contractor would just have the homeowner buy the materials upfront. Contractor contract for labor only, Especially for custom orders.

 

[Ralf11]

besides the written contract, you want to look at Pennsylvania law on construction contracts

 

[383 240z]

Well for those who think he’s busy with a more profitable job, the guy scrubbed his face book page, both his personal and professional page. His voicemail box has been filled and emptied again.

I’ve started costing out materials, I have a call into my Nations Rental rep for a skid steer with an auger attachment, a couple stages is scaffolding and a articulated forklift to help set the trusses. Laminated posts have got a bit expensive! I’ll get through this. I just need to make a plan. Thank you everyone for the advice. I’m still going to try and recover my losses.

 

[Git]

When the contractor is limited by the allowable down payment.........wonder..........how many times the homeowner sticks the contractor with materials and other costs. When the homeowner bails on the project because of stuff like changed my mind, lost my job, divorce, illness etc

Seems like in California the contractor would just have the homeowner buy the materials upfront. Contractor contract for labor only, Especially for custom orders.

Why? In California, a Contractor needs to specify an approximate start and end date. It is usually written into the contract that as soon as the materials get delivered to the job site a payment would be required. There would also be proper progress payments as work proceeds, but the payments never should get ahead of the work.

Too many flaky contractors out there were asking for large down payments and then they would use that money to finish up work on another job - like a big pyramid scheme. If a contractor can't float $8k worth of material for 30 days, that should raise a red flag.

Biggest problem is not having a proper contract with all this spelled out up front.

 

[rohartman]

Well for those who think he’s busy with a more profitable job, the guy scrubbed his face book page, both his personal and professional page. His voicemail box has been filled and emptied again.

Well that doesn't sound good....since he is in Ohio maybe calling abc6onyourside.com They have investigators to check out crook who have taken advantage of honest people. They also have a "ask the Attorney" line at 614-481-6848 Wednesday evening between 5 pm and 6:30 pm. if you need some legal advise.
Building your dream garage should be a time of excitement but not that kind. I wish you good luck.

O

 

[ooba tooba]

Well for those who think he’s busy with a more profitable job, the guy scrubbed his face book page, both his personal and professional page. His voicemail box has been filled and emptied again.

I’ve started costing out materials, I have a call into my Nations Rental rep for a skid steer with an auger attachment, a couple stages is scaffolding and a articulated forklift to help set the trusses. Laminated posts have got a bit expensive! I’ll get through this. I just need to make a plan. Thank you everyone for the advice. I’m still going to try and recover my losses.

Aww man that *****. I agree contact the shame gang on the local news and tell them the entire story. Tell him you plan to do that first and he has 48 hours to respond to you first. Uggh. Good luck to you and keep us posted.

 

[ace10]

You likely need to send a demand letter to him. Certified mail to the address in the contract.

 

[M-technik-3]

Rent a Billboard in his town. Would hope this is what others have said. Covid effecting his employees or himself or he's just finishing up anther job but sending a simple text as too I'm slightly behind but have not forgotten you always help reassure the customer.

 

[383 240z]

Made a few phone calls this morning, local sheriffs office knows him told me they broke up a domestic with his girlfriend last month, history of violence, multiple warrants and a few felony convictions. They helped me track down a good (as of a month ago) address for him. I texted him his address and a brief message knowing about him and the domestic charges.

Low and behold I got a very quick response.

At this point the authorities on both ends are aware of the situation.

His reply to my "I know where you live and who you are" text was as follows.

"I'm not ignoring you ok. Sorry I haven't responded lately. I haven't talked to anyone. My brother committed suicide last week. I'm getting back with my game now but its rough. I'll send your material this week and get started soon. just plz bare with me"

I asked the local PD to verify the brother story. That will buy him a lot of leeway with me. I do a lot of work with veteran suicide prevention and awareness groups. I am not completely callous when it comes to these matters.

What I am more concerned with is the now known history of violence this man has. If I allow him to continue the job, I will not allow my girlfriend to be on site without me. My house will not be left unlocked for them to use the bathroom and to warm up.

I'm not missing the red flags here. Brother committed suicide last week, it's been 2 weeks since he contacted me.

Why did he scrub his facebook pages? It would have taken 10 seconds to text me "family issues, I'll be in touch as soon as I can"

 

[ooba tooba]

Well when my nephew killed himself last July we were in such a fog that I disappeared from social media. I can understand it. Going through it is tough and you are facing things you haven’t before. People grieve differently too. Yeah cut him some slack and give him a bit of space. ***** for all involved.

 

[Hobby_Man22]

Not everyone can think critically in a stressful situation. Or any situation sometimes.

 

[Hobby_Man22]

This is good news I don't think he's trying to stiff you. Just give him a week or so.

 

[383 240z]

He didn’t walk away from social media. That I would fully understand. He pulled every post, every photo down. I did some Googleing. Using his family name and suicide. There was a case with the same (fairly unique) last name. But the guy was 1/2 the age of the contractor and it happened in June of 2019. It was in the same hometown.

I’d have more respect and understanding if he told me he went on a two week bender then if he came up with a made up story looking for sympathy.

 

[Will Allen]

He didn’t walk away from social media. That I would fully understand. He pulled every post, every photo down. I did some Googleing. Using his family name and suicide. There was a case with the same (fairly unique) last name. But the guy was 1/2 the age of the contractor and it happened in June of 2019. It was in the same hometown.

I’d have more respect and understanding if he told me he went on a two week bender then if he came up with a made up story looking for sympathy.

He is a storyteller. I wouldn't believe him if he told me today is Monday. Guys like that are always playing the game. I've dealt with a ton of them.

 

[CTyankee]

He is a storyteller. I wouldn't believe him if he told me today is Monday. Guys like that are always playing the game. I've dealt with a ton of them.

Pretty sure the OP confirmed the suicide. The only problem I see is how stable and reliable the guy is going to be going forward.

 

[383 240z]

Pretty sure the OP confirmed the suicide. The only problem I see is how stable and reliable the guy is going to be going forward.

All I confirmed is that someone from that family died in an apparent suicide (note in pocket, no skid marks as he plowed into a bridge abutment) in June of 2019. Not last week like he said. ******** meter is ******* with this guy.

 

[Will Allen]

All I confirmed is that someone from that family died in an apparent suicide (note in pocket, no skid marks as he plowed into a bridge abutment) in June of 2019. Not last week like he said. ******** meter is ******* with this guy.

He will play you as long as you let him.

 

[ooba tooba]

So sketchy

 

[MrSurly]

I’m wondering if the guy that burned me (and went to jail) has gotten out and moved North....?
Marcus Sample Thompson.... a convicted thief. His M-O was based on an understanding of the laws and what is pursued and what is not.
He knows that if he takes your check and disappears, that could be a criminal case. However, if he “begins work” on the property, and then doesn’t perform, it’s now just a civil matter (so sue me he says) and law enforcement is out.



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[Will Allen]

I’m wondering if the guy that burned me (and went to jail) has gotten out and moved North....?
Marcus Sample Thompson.... a convicted thief. His M-O was based on an understanding of the laws and what is pursued and what is not.
He knows that if he takes your check and disappears, that could be a criminal case. However, if he “begins work” on the property, and then doesn’t perform, it’s now just a civil matter (so sue me he says) and law enforcement is out.



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I used to have a saying back when I did residential work;

If you come to my shop and steal the materials and install them yourself you can get arrested for theft.

If you have me come to your house, supply and install the materials, and then not pay me there is little I can do.

 

[roc_on_the_rocks]

Bang his wife. It won't get your shop built but it might relieve your stress over it.

That ^^. But demand pictures first, because such task can be very rewarding, or an arduous labor.

 

[CTyankee]

All I confirmed is that someone from that family died in an apparent suicide (note in pocket, no skid marks as he plowed into a bridge abutment) in June of 2019. Not last week like he said. ******** meter is ******* with this guy.

Sorry, I misunderstood. **** him.

 

[jrsulo]

Hope this all works out for you !!!

 

[joey1320]

What a mess. I'd rather he lied to you about the suicide and you can still get your money. Good luck.

 

[dcg9381]

He had no intention of returning your money. This isn't over.
Something to watch for - many of these guys have business accounts that are NET 30. Meaning they don't have to pay for 30 days after delivery. If you take materials for your project that go unpaid, they can lien your property... If materials show, verify with the supplier that they were paid for.



Your situation is all too common in my area. In my county - this is considered "white collar" crime and although illegal, they have bigger things to prosecute. Hopefully your county is different... And often a call to his parole officer or investigating officer can provide some pressure.

 

[dcg9381]

I had to put 25k up front for a 50k shop. It took about a month to see any activity.

I put zero up front. I paid for materials at time of delivery. I paid for a foundation upon install. I paid for labor once the building was up.

Only way I'm providing a deposit - for anyone I don't know - is via a credit card.

The GC on my house insists on paying for supplies for the subs directly (meaning the concrete, lumber, all of it) - largely due to the experience of having paid subs who didn't pay their suppliers in the past. So when you get a sub who wants money up front for "materials" - that's fine, you'll cut the check to the supplier.

Well for those who think he’s busy with a more profitable job, the guy scrubbed his face book page, both his personal and professional page. His voicemail box has been filled and emptied again.
.

This means you're not the only one he's running around.

OP - not being critical at all.. This ***** - stay on him and I hope you can get him to finish, provide money back, etc... But don't let off the pressure, keep taking to the PD, get him to provide a date, etc.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Are his warrants, outstanding warrants ?

Depending what they are, they'll come hook him up when he shows up for the job.

 

[383 240z]

I was able to talk to the officer in my local PD again today. He verified that the brother of the contractor did indeed commit suicide. So that checked out unfortunately.

I have had a conversation with the contractor, I explained that i am to receive better communication from him, that I am to be alerted to any deliveries of materials.

He is saying that he is trying to time my job with another in the area (not believing him). I did call the lumberyard that delivered the trusses, they were paid in full.

I'm using this time to remove a large maple tree that is kind of in the way. I'm running the conduit out to the site. 4" pipe that will carry the power, communications and water.

Once the framing is complete (what I have paid for) then I will inform him that I will not be paying in advance. I am going to offer to pay for materials for him, I will pay his labor after that phase is completed.

This situation is not even close to perfect, in fact it is a far cry from even agreeable, but I have worked as a project manager before, I've dealt with subs like this guy before. It will take a lot more work on my end, but I will get this project completed. If he does not agree to the new terms I will lay out for him, then he can walk and I will finish the job myself.