Lost a good friend today...

[PugetDude]

My trusted and beloved Bosch 4000 10" table saw... I was ripping some synthetic decking when the motor made a strange sound, sudden "click" and then stopped... No smoke, no stalling, straining, just....click. When I shut it off and tried to re-start it sounds like a wheezing pelican and the blade runs backwards at about 60RPM.
Armature? Field? either way parts are probably approaching the cost of a replacement saw. I'm not a motor guy, I'd be fine replacing the entire motor as a unit, but I'd be like an Amish electrician once I opened up the motor. And, I'm in the middle of a project that is going to require a table saw. Like tomorrow.
I bought this saw in 2008, it's been one of my favorite tools. I added the retractable side and exit end extensions, a zero clearance insert, and a dust bag. (that will all fit the newer 4100 model.) It's the only saw I have ever owned that I trusted the fence measuring pointer- it's dead on every time. Always had plenty of power, the fence slides almost effortlessly and locks down absolutely parallel, gravity rise stand is a joy to use, folds up to store out of the way when I'm not using it. It's ripped miles of trim, plywood, mdf. and lumber; helped me remodel three houses, build cabinets, ripped down framing lumber, etc.
Dont really want to spend $600+ on a new saw that comes with with a stand I don't need ; Amazon has reconditioned units without the stand for $380 but delivery is a week to ten days out. Gotta do something quick.

 

[steves_001]

Bummer, I hate having to replace a good tool. Any chance craigslist or FBMP has the same out there someone wants to sell close by?

 

[Lassen Forge]

Grainger had me a new motor for my drill press in 24 hours. And I lived in the middle of nowhere. Actually, Grainger has ALWAYS been that fast with stuff. You have to know the motor frame and specs, look up their online catalog, find the matching motor and put in a rush order. Then you just replace the motor, have the old one rebuilt, and keep on keeping on...

 

[AA/FC]

Grainger had me a new motor for my drill press in 24 hours. And I lived in the middle of nowhere. Actually, Grainger has ALWAYS been that fast with stuff. You have to know the motor frame and specs, look up their online catalog, find the matching motor and put in a rush order. Then you just replace the motor, have the old one rebuilt, and keep on keeping on...

Yep.... or you can also try Zoro.com which is a subsidiary of Grainger. They offer free shipping on anything over over $50 bucks, otherwise small orders are only $5 bucks for basic USPS ground shipping. If I order early in the day, most orders are on my front door steps by noon the next day. They also constantly offer 20% off coupon codes on various types of products. (it changes all the time) I have purchased several tools in the past and received the 20% off deal. They also send post cards in the mail constantly with coupon codes. In fact, I just ordered from them yesterday. lol.

 

[laser3kw]

you'd pay $600 for a new one? I have had a mid 70's vintage cast iron Craftsman for sale for $250 and not one inquire - even to low ball me!

 

[bigcreek]

This week I was using an old Craftsman grinder and it started smoking white smoke but it wouldnt shut off so I sent it down and I was amazed at how long that white smoke poured out of there for, then white smoke turned to black smoke then flames the whole while the grinder was screaming. It finally died, gasping for its last breath.

 

[Lassen Forge]

Couldn't pull the plug?

 

[Davefr]

It could be as simple as dirty or worn brushes that cost a whopping $10 and are super easy to inspect. Ereplacement parts lists that as the #1 fix for the "won't turn on" symptom followed by speed control $50.

It should be easy enough to ohm out/inspect the field/armature to eliminate them as the cause. Since you didn't detect smoke or a burning smell then those components are likely OK.

If the job is time critical, rent a table saw from HD until you can properly diagnose your saw.

 

[rlitman]

It could be as simple as dirty or worn brushes that cost a whopping $10. Ereplacement parts lists that as the #1 fix for the "won't turn on" symptom followed by speed control $50.

It should be easy enough to ohm out/inspect the field/armature to eliminate them as the cause. Since you didn't detect smoke or a burning smell then those components are likely OK.

And there's no speed control on a table saw. The symptoms scream brushes to me. At least pull the brush caps and take a look before you trash the saw.

 

[Davefr]

And there's no speed control on a table saw. The symptoms scream brushes to me. At least pull the brush caps and take a look before you trash the saw.

According to these guys there is a speed control. But I'd also bet the brushes are worn down to where the springs are the only thing left touching the commutator. That would explain very slow speed.

Speed Control 2610997306 - OEM Bosch - eReplacementParts.com

Buy the official Bosch Speed Control 2610997306 replacement - Use our model diagrams, repair help, and video tutorials to help get the job done.

www.ereplacementparts.com

 

[PugetDude]

Found another Bosch 4000 on Craigslist. PHX- Talked with the seller, seems to be in great shape. He sent me a video of it running. Driving 222 miles (each way) tomorrow to pick it up. Exactly what I wanted and the price is right.

Funny story- another guy had called him just before I did- was interested but only if it had the factory guard and pushstick. I can understand the guard but a pushstick? anyway, he passed on buying it when the seller (estate sale) couldn't find the pushstick.

Hopefully this will work out, otherwise I get a nice day-long roadtrip in my new truck- {coincidentally on my last day on the payroll-) which still works for me.

 

[PugetDude]

And there's no speed control on a table saw. The symptoms scream brushes to me. At least pull the brush caps and take a look before you trash the saw.

Will take a look, if it's just brushes I'll order a set and sell the saw. A bit reluctant to start throwing major parts at a problem that's probably outside my scope of diagnosis. Found another saw for $225- about what a new field and armature would cost. (and I can use the Bosch gravity rise stand for my sliding compound mitersaw...)

 

[Tools4Me]

Will take a look, if it's just brushes I'll order a set and sell the saw. A bit reluctant to start throwing major parts at a problem that's probably outside my scope of diagnosis. Found another saw for $225- about what a new field and armature would cost. (and I can use the Bosch gravity rise stand for my sliding compound mitersaw...)

In my experience, worn down brushes cause low power situations where a motor bogs down easily, spins at slower than normal rpm (but still in the correct direction), stops working completely, or only works intermittently until the brushes are replaced. Your symptoms sound like a faulty field coil to me, but field coils often go bad as a result of overloading the motor during use, or as a result of the armature going bad first, so I understand what you mean about how part costs can add up. Buying another used unit is probably the wiser option, then the one you have can become a spare part source for your replacement table saw in case anything else breaks or goes missing in the future.

In case you ever feel like trying to fix your current bad saw, this detailed review (copied from ereplaementparts) might be helpful.

"
Bosch 4100 table saw was running backwards slowly
Replaced speed control and saw was still running backwards.
So next replaced field coil and saw now works properly.
I have model with gravity stand and to make repair I left saw in folded position which allows view of underside of table saw. 1. have new field coil present before starting repair to make referencing easier. 2. set saw to 45 deg. 3. remove lever and rod from stand as it blocks view of motor.4. use short flat screwdriver and remove brush caps and brushes. 5. remove three phillips screws and top part of motor housing make note of wiring and how wires are tucked in (take picture) the wires coming out of the remaining motor housing are the only ones you have to deal with.6. use pliers to undo crimp wire nuts holding black and white wire pairs .7. Next remove long black wire that goes to brush housing on right side. It is conjoined with red wire coming from field coil still in side housing. 8. Un plug both red wires. 9. Remove 4 phillips screws from motor housing at base and slide off housing from armature . The bearing will stay with armature , field coil is in housing. 10. Remove two long machine screws that hold field coil to housing, then use long flat blade screwdriver and gently tap field coil out of housing ( carefully go from side to side against solid part of field coil. You can suspend housing across 2 blocks of wood so coil has room to come out. 11. Now replace new field coil matching orientation of old one ( because of tight fit use a little dish soap on sides of field coil and make sure to align with threaded inserts in head of housing. Make sure to pull wires from field coil up through housing before completely seating field coil. 12. Replace 2 machine screws and reattach wires.( I reused wire crimps but it would be best to use new ones)
13. Reattach top housing and then attach complete motor housing to armature. replace table saw stand lever and rod assembly. Done
"

Good luck OP.

 

[Miss the Pontiacs]

Sorry to hear of your loss. Replacing brushes as mentioned might work, then a cleanup of armature and who knows you might get lucky.
I’m not in the used camp either, unless it is super cheap or someone I know.
Buying new will probably outlast you or me but I have kids interested in the old mans toys. (That is me)
Hell I even asked if the future SIL thought a steel I beam in the yet to be constructed garage would be a good idea down the road for their use.

 

[Grokew]

Couldn't pull the plug?

How can you be so cruel?

 

[Lassen Forge]

How can you be so cruel?

I meant when it was BURNING, silly!! I wasn't talking about shooting it like your favorite hunting hound who just passed 20 years, can't walk, and can't see, but still lies by the fire and loves you...

 

[southalabama]

Sorry for your loss

But we have the technology we can rebuild him.

 

[PugetDude]

Thanks, I will post an update when I get the replacement saw tomorrow.
(or possibly another "Flakes of Craigslist" rant.)

EDIT:
Picked up the replacement saw today. $225.
( I gave the seller an extra $25 for holding it for me...I knew it wouldn't last long at that price) Had a nice 3 hour drive through the AZ mountains, met LXCam for lunch and then he went with me to pick up the saw. (And brought a tarp that saved me from the unexpected downpour I encountered on the way back- thanks, buddy!) It was a pre-estate sale, the widow let us look at the rest of the tools that were going to be in the sale. The saw hadn't seen a lot of use, hadn't been used commercially, and not at all for the last couple of years after her husband's stroke.
I picked up a big heavy 6" vise, and a few other hand tools in addition to the saw.

I'll take a look at the brushes and maybe pull the motor apart on the old saw before I decide to scrap it out.

 

[Firebrick43]

You really love your bosch saws! to go 222 miles for it..

 

[aShop]

you'd pay $600 for a new one? I have had a mid 70's vintage cast iron Craftsman for sale for $250 and not one inquire - even to low ball me!

I often see the contractor saws for sale for $150.

I understand why contractors want jobsite saws. They are disposable and light.

Home owners should all ****** up the contractor saws. Buy it for life.

 

[PugetDude]

I used to have a big heavy stationary cabinet saw with cast iron bed and xtension wings. It was an immovable island in the center of my shop. When I downsized, it didn't work for me any longer so I gave it to my BIL and bought the Bosch 4000 with the gravity rise stand. One of the best tool tool purchase decisions I have ever made.

 

[PugetDude]

You really love your bosch saws! to go 222 miles for it..

It's a matter of perspective. In AZ it was only three counties, in the eastern US it would be three states.

 

[LXCam]

I gotta say that gravity stand is most impressive. I've got a Dewalt and all though the stand is perfectly functional, its no where near as easy to use. Nice snag bud!