Lost everything in a fire.

[Warrensparadise]

Good morning. I am beyond devastated that I have lost my shop and all its contents in the “Camp Fire incident” in Paradise. I have been a lifetime hot rod and motorcycle guy and never had a lot of restraint in picking up things that I wanted to build on the future. I had enough projects to keep me busy for at least another 20 years.
Without publicly getting into details, suffice to say I had a serious level workshop that was very well equipped. If anyone has gone through this before I would greatly appreciate some insight to dealing with my insurance company. The property had a “farm pack” policy on it which should at a minimum cover farm equipment and incidentals used in conjunction with the farm.
If you have gone through this before you k ow how devastating this is.
If you have not, you cannot even begin to comprehend how life changing this is.
I am a reasonably intelligent person, and ten days ago I couldn’t have even imagined how difficult this would be.

I don’t need a lecture about what I could have done different, I need solid advice to move forward. I appreciate your positive input in how I can begin to rebuild my lifelong passion.


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[Bruce 993 SEA]

I helped a buddy with this when he lost everything..as in hid daughters ran over to Costco to get him some clothes.

I really feel for you and this is going to be a tough row to hoe but you can get through it.

The two of us created a spreadsheet with multiple tabs for each category of contents. This helps break it down into smaller bite sized chunks and keeps your mind in one are such as kitchen utensils, hand tools, power equipment, spare parts...you get it.

The house rebuilding will be a pain as you will be required to bring it up to code. This burned a lot of insurance money. I have code compliance riders on all my rentals and main house.

Hang in there!

 

[cvairwerks]

Warren: I know it *****, but the main thing is that you and the family and pets if you have any, made it out ok. Stuff, almost no matter what it was, can be replaced.

 

[JimParsons]

I am so sorry, I cannot image how you must feel right now. Does your 'farm pack' policy state what the incidentals might be or total value of individual item ("buildings or other permanent structures used for the purpose of operating Your Farming Business")? Could any of the setup be classed as farm equipment or for the purpose of operating your business? What is the exact policy, who with? Did you get the standard or tailor it?

Looking at a couple of policies online, it really depends on the policy you have, do you have a copy of the PDF or know the exact policy?

 

[Toothaker]

Warren, I've not been through a fire myself, so I won't insult your intelligence by saying I understand. I don't. But I can try to imagine what you are going through, and it has to be really tough. Sorry for your losses.

Hopefully your insurance company works with you, not against you, as you get back on your feet.

If you have time and the will, please keep posting as you work through the process. It may be an education for others who've not been through this themselves.

 

[Lassen Forge]

Get ALL the documentation you can. Pics of your vehicles and equipment, contact people you bought stuff from for copies of receipts, etc, if you have pix on your cellphone, so much the better, and on a flash drive better yet. Get a copy of your policy and read it (with a lawyer if necessary) to make sure you don't get excluded to death.

We almost lost ours in the Ponderosa fire in 2012, and I realized just how little documentation we had. Now we have those fireproof cases with copies of everything in each vehicle, pictures and pdf's of receipts on thumb drives, etc.

A coworker lost his in the Carr, and he had the documentation, AND went straight to his insurance company (whie others were doing the FEMA thing), his house will be done in 11 months, some are out 2-3+ years. So move on this right now.

Fighting an insurance company *****... get your claim in early, and be ready to fight like hell. And good luck!

 

[Shiftless]

Warren:
We’re all thankful you got out with your life. So many other victims of that horrible fire (that is still going on) didn’t.

 

[yeldogt]

You need to get the policy out .. read it fully.

Get what documentation you have per the loss .... did you take pictures? Any lists of items? what's remains to survey for contents?

It's really all about the various policies at this point ... if you don't understand something ..ask. The adjusters have to tell you the truth as they see it -- they will explain how they will look at the claim.

I have been through it twice ..... life changing and extremely stressful. If you are married .. have a conversation and work together .. you don't want the stress to affect a relationship.

 

[PoorOwner]

Very sorry to hear. Best of luck on the rebuild.

What is the coverage on the insurance. Dwelling and personal property ? There is going to be a maximum on these.

News is saying the coverage for most won’t be enough to cover rebuilding completely. I would think the dwelling coverage price of the area is too low and is not in line with the current labor price in California. Especially after a disaster.
Hopefully with FEMA somehow it will be pieced together.

We are all helping indirectly because insurance companies is going to up the rates for 20% every year as they have been in the past couple years.

 

[Warrensparadise]

Thank you all for the quick comments. I will try to continue posting as things move along.
The statements about getting out alive are real and currently over 70 people are confirmed deceased with over 1,000 still missing. Obviously escaping with our lives was most important and I cannot express serious enough grief for those families that lost loved ones.
In addition to the loss of my shop which is heartbreaking, our home is standing but likely has 100k plus in damages, our “farm” vineyard is burnt up, lost multiple rental properties and oh yeah, my wife and I own a real estate brokerage.... so our livelihood locally no longer exists and we will have to re-invent ourselves.
Somewhat luckily I have lots of photos as I tend to take pictures of everything I work on, but I am confident my photos will only cover a small percentage of contents.
Here is a photo from leaving my driveway 15 minutes after receiving an evacuation “warning” for another “zone”. Our zone was never called for evacuation.


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[PoorOwner]

I am upset they have this skyway road leading to your town which seemed to be one of the couple of ways to get out but there was not any fire breaks from what I see where people are getting stuck? all with trees leading up to the asphalt.

Was this never a concern amongst the residents to improve the road?

 

[yeldogt]

Well good luck ... if you have proper rental insurance -- it amazing what's included. I had a loss in the city (part of the block went up) ... policy moved the tenants and gave them some $$. Policy paid me the rent as if they were there and rebuilt the house.

It's sounds illogical -- but with the right insurance and pictures/list .. having a total loss is easier vs a partial .... there is no fighting over what's damaged.

Again -- good luck.

 

[Eric29]

A friend of mine went through this. There are companies that evaluate losses, mostly for the insurance companies, but they will do it for anyone who is willing to pay. He retained one of them and got an estimate through them. It helped immensely in dealing with the insurance company and in a subsequent lawsuit against them which the insurance company settled. Dealing with insurance companies on your own with pictures, etc., is great if your loss is very small. It doesn’t work if the value is high. It’s like David versus Goliath and David isn’t going to win this one.

 

[yeldogt]

A friend of mine went through this. There are companies that evaluate losses, mostly for the insurance companies, but they will do it for anyone who is willing to pay. He retained one of them and got an estimate through them. It helped immensely in dealing with the insurance company and in a subsequent lawsuit against them which the insurance company settled. Dealing with insurance companies on your own with pictures, etc., is great if your loss is very small. It doesn’t work if the value is high. It’s like David versus Goliath and David isn’t going to win this one.

They are called public adjusters ....

I would never use one .. they take a percentage .. often 20%.

 

[Toothaker]

snip

Here is a photo from leaving my driveway 15 minutes after receiving an evacuation “warning” for another “zone”. Our zone was never called for evacuation.

Wow. That sure looks like the fire is in your zone. I imagine the fire's scope and speed resulted in a lot of this - zones on fire for which warning weren't posted.

Glad you and yours made it out safely.

 

[Warrensparadise]

I am upset they have this skyway road leading to your town which seemed to be one of the couple of ways to get out but there was not any fire breaks from what I see where people are getting stuck? all with trees leading up to the asphalt.



Was this never a concern amongst the residents to improve the road?

PoorOwner. There has been much angst from the citizens about the width of roadways. A few years back in reaction to a couple of pedestrians being hit in and outside of crosswalks the town acquired a grant for “public safety” which added I believe four or five lit crosswalks to the main thoroughfare. The town council also adopted a resolution (and I believe also funded through the public safety grant) to reduce the number of lanes through town on Skyway, the main thoroughfare from four to two. This gave the opportunity to “cutesy-pie” up the downtown area. It looked nice but became an absolute bottleneck for traffic during peak traffic times. There have been numerous, likely hundreds of complaints and cries to return it to four lanes with no action from the town council. Collectively they simply state that the reduced traffic lanes are responsible for the stretch of road not resulting in any deaths since its change, and therefor it is doing as designed and making the town safer.
I’ll let history be the deciding factor as to whether this was truly a safety benefit to the town and all areas uphill from that point.
Additionally there is information that the three major arterial leaving town were to be used “contraflow” in an emergency so all lanes would leads out of town. There are news articles stating this was done. Unfortunately I have photo evidence showing otherwise.


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[Toolmaker65]

Warren:

You have my sympathy for what you have just gone through. It is devastating to see everything that you have worked for and the things that brought you happiness and pleasure totally gone. As others have said, read your policy closely - if you don't have a copy due to the fire, your agent should be able to provide you with one.

Watch for coverage limits on certain things - tools, firearms, 'collectibles' such as stamps, coins, antiques and the like. Most insurance policies put a hard limit on these items unless additional riders are purchased to cover to a higher limit. This normally would have entailed getting detailed appraisals of these items done when the policy was purchased and having subsequent updates over time to make sure you were adequately covered. Also beware of replacement cost - some policies will replace in kind, so your flatscreen tv that you bought 5 years ago will be replace with an equivalent new model today that has the same quality and options. Others will be replaced on a depreciated basis, which means that you may be scrounging used electronics stores to find the same thing or paying additional money out of your pocket to replace with the same model.

Records of purchases can help verify everything, but unfortunately most of the time these are also lost in the fire unless you have them stored somewhere other than in your home.

Frankly speaking, it can be an uphill battle to get back to where you were. Even with the 'best' insurance you will never be reimbursed 100 percent for your loss - probably closer to 70 percent.

Also, due to the stress involved with all of this, do not be afraid to seek counselling or psychological help. What you have gone through is a very traumatic experience. You and your family may benefit from talking to someone due to all of the thoughts, questions, and fears that this will cause. This WILL have an impact on you for the rest of your life regardless of where you are. After a total loss fire due to faulty wiring 5 years ago (and it wasn't my wiring), my fiance' still has anxiety attacks whenever she smells smoke and panics if she hears sirens in the neighborhood and she is not at home. She has become very OCD about making sure things such as phone chargers and laptop cords are unplugged (not to mention hair dryers, irons, and a host of other small appliances) when we leave the house.

That's about all that I can tell you - no instant happy pills or anything like that to say that all will be as good or better than what it was before this happened. The best that you can do is to pull together with you family to get the best that you can from your insurance - this in itself can be taxing because regardless of what the insurance commercials say, they are a BUSINESS and look to make and keep as much money as possible - gotta keep the shareholders and execs happy. It will be stressing on you and your family as there will be lots of emotions felt - fear, anger, worry, and yes, even relief and happiness if everyone (thinking of any critters that you may have had) made it out without injury.

The best advice I can give is to prepare to fight together with you family to get back to 'normal' as quickly as you can. It won't be easy, but support each other and talk and listen to each other's worries and concerns. It WILL be difficult, but celebrate each victory on the path to returning to normal, expect losses (they happen, nothing you can do about it - insurance companies are the cruel, heartless bahstahds to blame for that - not you or your wife/significant other/ kids, etc). Seek psychological help if there are lots of fighting or bad feelings within your family or depression over what was, what happened, and what will be.

Even though what happened out and out *****, you can pull through - try to keep realistic expectations, things won't be done overnight but by trying to proactive and asking questions about what is needed and required will speed the process rather than waiting for insurance to ask you questions. Good luck, keep us posted on what happens - you have another set of ears here at GJ who are willing to help when and where we can.

 

[BFBOB]

Be sure to go through all your Garage Journal postings. You may have pictures and accounts of your activities that will help document your possessions - in particular any build threads may have pictures of a lot of your tools and equipment lurking in the backgrounds. You may have deleted pictures from your devices if they were worth posting as interest to others, but not worth keeping. Now they may be worth a lot.
And if you got caught in the Photobucket mess, now might be a good time to pony up a few bux to retrieve pix that may exist nowhere else.
Good luck - you'll need it no matter how hard you work at recovering.

 

[Eric29]

The insurance company discount when they shortchange you is more than 20%

They are called public adjusters ....

I would never use one .. they take a percentage .. often 20%.

 

[epmills]

Wow, that is terrible news! I haven't personally had to deal with insurance on this issue, but I was at a very good friends house when it caught fire-total loss. He didn't get too much hassle from his insurance, but pictures helped. Receipts helped even more. Luckily he was pretty good at hanging onto information, and kept it in a fire resistant safe that survived. I wish you the best of luck, just be thankful you made it out safe.

 

[yeldogt]

The insurance company discount when they shortchange you is more than 20%

With the proper coverage and company -- you don't make out. And, I would say you are backwards .. the bigger the claim and the closer to limits the more chance you have to lose.

The best companies do the inventory for you and price the items ...mine paid a company called Enservio. Bunch of guys spent days pricing everything in the house. I had a couple disputes with the adjuster .... but the valuation company was spot on with pricing. Insurance company came and boxed up valuable items -- example: I collect glass art .....they packed them in wooden boxes and sent them to a restorer. They would pay to restore items I wanted even if the cost exceeded the value. They paid for the items and I could keep them if i wanted -- we actually did in some cases to use in the temp house (like stuff from the kitchen)

Getting the value is not the problem -- even with rebuilding. It's getting items included in the claim .. the scope.

PA's live off bad companies that don't help the insured -- that why it's so important to understand how companies handle claims.

The building was more difficult and did require some specialized help -- some I paid for some the insurance company paid for. We fought over the slate roof for example ... Mine was almost a 2m claim .... that's a lot of $$ to pay a PA.

The OP will just have to understand it's not something that's over in a week ... is a process. It's messy, dirty, time consuming situation.

 

[hemiallen]

I have been to your town several times, once for my Nephew's graduation from the Academy there. Very sad seeing images of what is left, and the death numbers are huge.

My son arrived in Chico Thursday around 1pm and has been fighting fires since he arrived. I have seen a lot of burned old cars, enough to feel sick, I can't imagine if I lost all my hotrods. He said tons of deer roaming around in the ruins. Nephew is up there doing animal rescues, being a park ranger from due south of you.

Glad you are safe, and prayers and good luck with your insurance.

 

[rayra]

duped

 

[rayra]

Not only did the town leadership not improve the main drag, they actually took lanes AWAY a couple years ago and replaced them with parking and restricted access with physical barriers so the former lanes couldn't even be used in emergencies. Look in the south of town, intersection of Skyway and Pearson and follow Skyway north into town.
Whole damned town bottlenecked by some idiot politicians.

eta 2014-2015 timeframe, according to historical images in GoogleEarth

 

[oldwino]

So sorry to hear my friend. I dodged a bullet last year in the Tubb’s Fire. Got within 2-300 yards from out place. Saved by the grace of God.

My prayers are with you

 

[DGersic]

One thing I learned from Sandy is that you’re about to be descended upon by a traveling pack of contractors, construction workers, and thieves. It will be challenging to tell them apart. Be careful who you deal with.

Good to hear you made it out. The next few years are going to be difficult.


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[Norcal]

The whole thing is a sad situation, I have 11 co-workers who lost everything, and there are about 40 total in the company who are homeless, picked up a travel trailer on Saturday in Yuba City & hauled to Oroville for someone to live in, this is going to be a huge problem because of the tight housing market that already existed before the fire in the Chico area and beyond. There is a shortage of skilled trades people already and to replace the 9700 single family homes lost is going to take a long time.

The OP is lucky that he has a lot of photos, it should make dealing with insurance companies a bit easier.

 

[pcmeiners]

Agree with starting an Excel spreadsheet. Had a fire in my fathers house placed everything down in a spreadsheet. I keep a pencil and pad on me because I remembered thing things through out the day. Did very well on the claim. The public adjusters were like vultures circling remains .. you do not need them. Place EVERTHING down in the spreadsheet, down to the last pencil.
As to the buzzards (contractors, plumber, electricians, public adjusters, scam artist) , if possible do not rebuild right away, a year from now the building costs will lower. Relocate if possible as any money you get will not last long as the buzzard prices are absurd, like >3-4x the normal costs; don't be food for the buzzards.
.

 

[JDuCharme]

sorry for your loss, best of luck to you

 

[77Birdman]

Sorry for your loss as well as everyone that has been in the path of this inferno. My shop burnt to the ground just a little over a year ago (10/14/17). I lost 3 generations of contracting equipment, more hand tools than I could think of, a project car I was working, etc. I had 2 insurance policies. One for my business and one that covered my personal property. Overall I was underinsured. Having a detailed list of contents will help greatly. Once you can get back you will find that very little will be recognizable. I have a very good agent who worked with me as a go between the adjusters. At this point its mostly in the insurance agents hands, but with the amount of devastation I cant imagine how long that will take. Good Luck.

 

[2level]

PoorOwner. There has been much angst from the citizens about the width of roadways. A few years back in reaction to a couple of pedestrians being hit in and outside of crosswalks the town acquired a grant for “public safety” which added I believe four or five lit crosswalks to the main thoroughfare. The town council also adopted a resolution (and I believe also funded through the public safety grant) to reduce the number of lanes through town on Skyway, the main thoroughfare from four to two. This gave the opportunity to “cutesy-pie” up the downtown area. It looked nice but became an absolute bottleneck for traffic during peak traffic times. There have been numerous, likely hundreds of complaints and cries to return it to four lanes with no action from the town council. Collectively they simply state that the reduced traffic lanes are responsible for the stretch of road not resulting in any deaths since its change, and therefor it is doing as designed and making the town safer.
I’ll let history be the deciding factor as to whether this was truly a safety benefit to the town and all areas uphill from that point.
Additionally there is information that the three major arterial leaving town were to be used “contraflow” in an emergency so all lanes would leads out of town. There are news articles stating this was done. Unfortunately I have photo evidence showing otherwise.


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Redesigning roads with less regard for vehicles, and more for pedestrians and bicycles, is a nationwide problem. Burns my ***. It's always done in the name of "safety", yet the primary road design safety consideration should be for maximum traffic flow and emergency vehicle access.

You've already been given great advice, especially by 'yeldogt', so I'll just stress the importance of patience -- it's a time consuming process so buckle in. I've only been through one fire loss, and it was my parents house, but know several people who've had fire damage.

 

[Plombob]

OP - Very sorry to hear about the loss, but glad you made it out. The best advice I can give you is be polite but firm. Don't take a "no" from someone who can't give you a "yes". Escalate up the levels. VPs typically don't want to speak to claimants and they can bend rules to make you go away.

 

[mmavet]

OP This fire sounds like a really bad one. Glad you and yours made it out safely. I can;t imagine loosing all my garage stuff. I just hope the insurance companies treat you and everyone else fairly. No advise about insurance companies.

 

[reader2580]

I am sorry to hear about the loss of your house.

Cities can't build roads wide enough to handle a once in 50 years emergency evacuation. It just isn't feasible to have a six or eight lane road that gets used every 50 years. How wide would the highway have to be to quickly evacuate southern Florida? 20+ lanes going north?

 

[Corndoggeh]

Speaking of wildfires, does anyone remember the video of those 3-4 teenagers that were escaping a wildfire. The road was cut off so they attempted to go through grazing land and had to smash through a gate to get to the other side while they could barely see 5 feet infront of their truck?

The video of their escape really sends shivers down my spine.

 

[Colin Len]

I don't have any advice but wanted to send my condolences on the losses. I grew up in Paradise and still have many friends with family there who have lost their homes. I wish you the absolute best and hope you and your family can get back on your feet.

 

[firebirdparts]

I am sorry to hear about the loss of your house.

Cities can't build roads wide enough to handle a once in 50 years emergency evacuation. ?

Cities are now unbuilding roads that already exist. That's what he was talking about. Hope that makes sense.

Consultants, basically. I guess it sounds so stupid the commissioners think it must be brilliant.

 

[ScottsGT]

My condolences to you and your family. I know another that lost it all from another forum I’m on. Paul Fisher lost his entire model and guitar business as well.
I’m just glad you made it out. Sounds like you’re getting a lot of good advise here. Thoughts and prayers to all that is suffering through this disaster.

 

[jimp]

Sorry to hear about your loss, About 10 years ago I lost our shop and everything in it to arson.

I would suggest that you have an honest talk with your insurance company. I called mine expecting the worse and was pleasantly surprised.

In our case we had a farm policy and home owners on our house at a different location. The farm policy covered the structure and a few pieces of equipment, but the majority of the non structural losses were covered under my home owners personal property. Now for the got you, they covered a new frame and body for a jeep build because was new and not used or part of a uninsured car . They would not cover a used engine and transmission because they were used and should have been covered under a auto policy (all of your future projects?), I know it makes no sense but that was their rules.

Talk to the adjusters and hope for good ones, Even with the strange rules I was very happy with mine and feel we came out OK.

It's ten years later and my wife and I still discover things that we had and lost but never claimed because we did not remember during the claim process.

Good Luck

 

[ScottsGT]

Interesting. Years back I spoke with my insurance company about coverage on my ‘66 Mustang project. He told me if I had proof with receipts or photos of parts in my garage it would be covered, new or used. As soon as I registered and running, the vehicle it is no longer covered under homeowners.
They also warned me that as soon as it was close to being done, start the auto policy. It becomes a gray area between a project and just a disabled car off the road for repairs.