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Love my a/c

skyking

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I put a 5 ton package unit on my 50x40 2 years ago. It has been near 100 now for a while. I am the only one around that can work in my shop.
The electric bill did not go up much .........well worth it.
 
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Falcon67

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It's been 100 or + for the last 5 days or so. I set the 8K in the work room to come on about 4:30. Been welding up a lathe table, working nice and cool (74F) inside. Even the pool was at 92F yesterday. Summer in Texas, loves me some AC.
 

pseudorealityx

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It's a single package that houses the compressor, condenser, and evaporator coils all in one "package". It it typically mounted on the roof or on the ground adjacent to your space and supply and return ducts are directly connected to the unit.

This is opposed to a split system where you have a remotely mounted condensing unit that typically houses the compressor and condenser coil, and is connected via refrigerant lines to an indoor "air handler" unit that sits in a closet or above ceiling to only houses the supply fan and evap. coil and heater (furnace, strip heater).
 

Highbeam

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The blower and everything is outside. They even make dual fuel pakage units that have a gas furnace in them so the big box outside is a heat pump, air handler, and gas furnace in one. Cheap and easy to install since the coolant charge is factory built.

The efficiency and cold weather capabilities **** though and they are loud. Compared to a minisplit.
 

Bogey won

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Summer in Texas, loves me some AC. (My sentiments exactly) :D

my 5 ton in a 20x20 or open the door and its 40x40 with a 5ft shop fan to push it.

It aint Christmas but its close.:rocker: 14inch hole blowing 14 degree cool, run it out the top of the shop, too much in the way otherwise, and just sit and enjoy or work and enjoy.

$1250 turn key installed, dw gave up its ac unit, and blessed me with ac and heat.:D
 

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pseudorealityx

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The blower and everything is outside. They even make dual fuel pakage units that have a gas furnace in them so the big box outside is a heat pump, air handler, and gas furnace in one. Cheap and easy to install since the coolant charge is factory built.

The efficiency and cold weather capabilities **** though and they are loud. Compared to a minisplit.


Comparing a minisplit and packaged unit is like comparing a motorcycle and a car. They're just different things.

Also, I have no idea how you can say that the cold weather capability of a packaged unit "*****". That makes zero sense.
 
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skyking

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Yes .You have probably seen them on temp work trailers and temp school buildings .There are millions of them roof mounted on buisinesses.I mounted mine on the ground .I will try to get a picture.
 

bullnerd

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Ahhhh.... Got it, I've seen Bogey talk about his but never understood , thanks and sorry for the derail.
 
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skyking

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Excuse the messy shop. The work inside was temporary but has been that way for a while. The unit is heat and air.
 

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carap

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I have a 40' X 50" metal building also. I am cooling it with a 28K btu window unit now. Helps tremendously but I need more cooling and air movement than the window unit can provide. I plan to put a 5 ton package unit on the roof or a wall hung package unit on one of the outside walls.. I would prefer the roof top unit to keep thieves from stealing the coils but not sure how to build a curb to fit the corrugated metal roof. If I use a wall mount unit I will have to build a cage to protect it. Does the single supply duct disperse the cool air to enough to keep the entire shop cool?
 

pseudorealityx

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A 5 ton is going to be ~600 lbs. A standard corrugated metal roof isn't likely going to be able to support that point load. Do you have some actual 'structure' that can handle that kind of load?

You can get a concentric supply/return diffuser for most roof mounted units. You see them a lot at big box stores, grocery stores, etc. They blow out horizontal and return from the bottom. That will easily give you enough throw.
 
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skyking

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I have a 40' X 50" metal building also. I am cooling it with a 28K btu window unit now. Helps tremendously but I need more cooling and air movement than the window unit can provide. I plan to put a 5 ton package unit on the roof or a wall hung package unit on one of the outside walls.. I would prefer the roof top unit to keep thieves from stealing the coils but not sure how to build a curb to fit the corrugated metal roof. If I use a wall mount unit I will have to build a cage to protect it. Does the single supply duct disperse the cool air to enough to keep the entire shop cool?

Absolutly , and cools it in a hurry.
 
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LS6 Tommy

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The efficiency and cold weather capabilities **** though and they are loud. Compared to a minisplit.

There's no way to say this without sounding disrespectful, but you have no idea what you're talking about...


Tommy
 
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Bogey won

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my new shop has a/c and ice insulation i went in there yesterday with everything off it was still only 86F at 3pm

You obviously need more ac tonnage, too much is jus enuff the sarge said.
Thats from North Texas Your in south Texas, still hot is hot, humid is humid.
More ac required, you cant have enuff.:thumbup:
 

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JimL

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40x50 could be cooled fairly easy with a 3 ton if you have some insulation. Not sure where a 5ton came into play.
 

markietas

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There's no way to say this without sounding disrespectful, but you have no idea what you're talking about...


Tommy

Can you point me to a non 10 ton+ package unit that has comparable seer/eer to a mid level mini split?

Even though his statement is a bit simplified I would generally agree based upon the ones I have been able to find. Typical ones I have been able to find are 13-16 seer and barley output 30% of their rated output at 17f.

....Perhaps there is more to it than just the unit itself that may lend a package installation to be comparable to a mini-split in terms of cold weather output.
 

LS6 Tommy

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Can you point me to a non 10 ton+ package unit that has comparable seer/eer to a mid level mini split?

Even though his statement is a bit simplified I would generally agree based upon the ones I have been able to find. Typical ones I have been able to find are 13-16 seer and barley output 30% of their rated output at 17f.

....Perhaps there is more to it than just the unit itself that may lend a package installation to be comparable to a mini-split in terms of cold weather output.

Better yet, point me to ANY 10 ton mini split, and then show me one with gas fired heat...

As I previously said, you have no idea what you're talking about...

Tommy
 

markietas

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Better yet, point me to ANY 10 ton mini split, and then show me one with gas fired heat...

As I previously said, you have no idea what you're talking about...

Tommy

Wow you didn't hardly read that at all did you?

...and I'm not the person that you replied to before.
 

pseudorealityx

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Wow you didn't hardly read that at all did you?

...and I'm not the person that you replied to before.

To be fair, your question was awkwardly written.

It's also not exactly a 'fair' question. SEER ratings take into account ALL of the electricity used in operating the unit. This includes both the condensing unit as well as the evaporator unit. As you likely know, mini-splits are meant for point load cooling, a single room/area. Standard packaged rooftop units are typically ducted out. Because of that, their supply fans are quite a bit more powerful (IE, use more electricity) because they have to overcome a lot more static pressure, both internal and external. Even the lightest duty 2 ton packaged unit is going to be able to flow a nominal 400 cfm/ton at ~0.5" of external static. Even the ducted versions of mini-splits cannot meet that. They typically are designed around a much lower cfm/ton number, and then can barely deal with 0.4" of external static.

Combined with the lack of accessories they can be provided with, like various filter options, economizers, outside air dampers, powered exhaust, etc, etc, etc.... they are just limited in terms of applications.

And as far as heat... you're right, sorta. Traditional packaged heat pumps operate with a 'normal' heat pump, meaning you're stuck with COP's hovering around 2 when you get down to 17 degrees, meaning ~50-60% nominal heating load. At that point, if additional heat is required, you typically make up for that with strip heaters, or a dual fuel setup. On the flip side, packaged units can be provided with both direct and indirect fired gas heaters. And that gives you even more freedom to do what you need to do.
 

LS6 Tommy

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Wow you didn't hardly read that at all did you?

...and I'm not the person that you replied to before.

I did read it, but I missed where you said "NON 10 ton+ unit". I apologize. And I knew you're weren't the person I replied to. I was including you in my statement, but since you pointed out where I went wrong, I retract that. Sorry!

Tommy
 
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CWO4GUNNER

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Ill tell you one thing they sure are allot easier to install "without ducting" then a traditional ducted split system, just allot more pricy per ton an allot noisier then a mini-split. Packaged units are pretty much what they stick in hotel rooms below the window that you must keep adjusting to keep from being frozen and operate during commercials to be able to hear the TV. Some people call them window units on steroids.
 

Falcon67

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I looked at those but the price was a bit high. Lots of them around here on mobile homes but they all seem to be 4 ton or better on double-wides. I don't even have 4 ton on the house.
 

pseudorealityx

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Ill tell you one thing they sure are allot easier to install "without ducting" then a traditional ducted split system, just allot more pricy per ton an allot noisier then a mini-split. Packaged units are pretty much what they stick in hotel rooms below the window that you must keep adjusting to keep from being frozen and operate during commercials to be able to hear the TV. Some people call them window units on steroids.

This is wrong.

Hotels typically have PTAC's or VTAC's if they use the through-wall designs. The only place you'll find a packaged unit on a hotel is in the common areas.

Either figure out what you're actually talking about, or stop posting.
 

over40pirate

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40x50 could be cooled fairly easy with a 3 ton if you have some insulation. Not sure where a 5ton came into play.

I was wondering if I was the only one thinking that. Maybe 14' walls!
I guess it would be ok in a dry climate. In a humid one, a 5 ton would short cycle, cool fast, but never run long enough to dehumidify.
 
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