Low-Balling

[Danglerb]

Lowball is an insult. It means I don't think you know what you have or what its worth.

OTOH if you want my offer its going to start out low, and its never going above what I am willing to pay.

 

[Danglerb]

The kid probably stole it, so its all profit to him. Nothing said about Jim buying a valuable knife from a kid without asking where he got it.

Whats a fair price for a knife that "may" sell on ebay for $100?
Something I don't want myself and I plan to just sell it, no more than $20, especially if there is a chance I am wrong, or its just not of interest to me directly. Something I plan to pass on to group like this one, no more than half unless its something I've been asked to buy and then its usually just passing it on, not profiting.

At how low of an asking price from the seller would you:

Not haggle at all?
For me maybe $20, but more likely $10.

Offer him more?
Under $10 it would be likely I would give him $10, but I wouldn't want to "spook" them, so it would depend on the person a bit.

 

[Outlander]

IMHO, low-balling is relative. Our country retreat (where my man cave is) was bought through what seems to be a 'low ball' offer. Why? The seller told my wife 3 times she was "very motivated" to sell and move away with her new boyfriend!

So, my wife (the family negotiator) offers her $30k less for the property. She accepted about $26k less. We could not run to the bank fast enough as the only other summer place that interested us was in the original price range.

So, my initial embarrassment over the low ball resulted in the deal being closed. The seller was happy (I guess we profited from 'new love'), my wife gets out of the city and I have a man-cave.

Regardless.... when the low-ball offer was made I fully expected a rejection and we were prepared for it. I would not have felt bad about it at all....that was the risk we took. In this case it worked out for all....including my 2 dogs who now have somewhere to run free

Hmmm...I wonder if I should run over to the local flea market to see what tools can be respectfully 'right balled' .........

 

[Lookin4'67Galaxieconv]

Heres another moral conundrum, do you think its fair when a seller lists an item at a price, and then goes back on that offer and jacks the price up?

Around 18 months ago I sold my car, an ae86 corolla. I had only paid $1100 for it around 3 years prior, so I put it up for sale at $900 on a car forum without even checking the prices. Unbeknownst to me in that time the car had appeared in a certain japanese cartoon, and examples similar to mine were going for upwards of $4000. I had about 8 offers to buy it when I checked my ad the next day, so I adjusted my price to include the "takumi tax" and sold it 5 days later for $3450.

Prior to sale, I offered it at this price to the bloke who had been the first to respond to my advert and he was not happy at all, explaining that it was his god-given right to purchase an item at the price it has been advertised for, and that it was a **** move to up your price no matter how undervalued you have put it at. I replied with something like "I'm sorry for getting you excited at the prospect of making money at the expense of myself now kindly f$%# off" and he got real ****** and sent me a bunch of angry messages and texts and I'm pretty sure he egged my house.

I don't blame you for raising the price when you found out the market value of the car but I also don't blame the guy for getting at least somewhat pissed at you. Don't act like he was trying to rip you off...you set the price in the first place. Was he supposed to volunteer that the car was worth a lot more than you were asking? No, he wasn't. That's on you to know the value of what you're selling. That being said, he does sound like an a/hole.

I feel that just as buyers can offer less than the original asking price, sellers can increase there price if they feel they can get more for the item. For some reason its seen as less acceptable than it is for a buyer to make a lower offer on an item though

That's not part of the accepted practice here of buying and selling. If it was common for sellers to raise the prices on their items, it would be a lot tougher to buy and sell things. If a buyer knows the price a seller is asking is their maximum price and it can only go down from there, then they know whether or not they're interested in that item based on the price. If the maximum price is somewhat acceptable, then further price changes, which will be lower than that, are more acceptable to the buyer.

I've never had a seller raise the price on me. If they did I'm sure I wouldn't be happy about it, though there's no excuse for immature and threatening behavior.

 

[kc-steve]

. . .Bottom line, trying to prove anyone making a lowball offer is the same as stealing money from a kid.

jack vines

'cept it ain't illegal between consenting adults

So when I bought a toolbox that usually sells used for +$1500 for $800 because the tech was out of work and was losing the house the next day did it make me a bad person with no sense of right or wrong or a conscience?

The way I see it I helped him, he needed it gone and he needed money to take care of his family. Would I have been a better person if I didn't buy it?

I low-ball, I don't have any trouble sleeping at night because of it.

. . .Yes, we can ALL find instances where we have helped someone with our purchase. But if you had offered him $100 (for the $1500 box) then I would have a few more descriptive words for your character than can be said in mixed company.

As Hiball and others have said, I don't have a problem with low-ballers, I ignore them.

But what many of you guys are attempting to justify is greed. I really hate to dance on your parade but when you take advantage of someone who is down and out and needing money real bad, then you have NO ETHICS WHEN YOU MAKE A COUNTER OFFER OF TEN CENTS ON THE DOLLAR HE IS OFFERING. If you can't afford it then don't buy it. If a seller is not playing games and you are, then you have no ethics, Get IT?

And if you guys try to sell me anything, I'm not buying, and that also means your justifications of taking advantage of people. Thanks for posting your nick names for us all.

I'm outta here, enough said, I'm tired of repeating myself to people who have no business ethics whatsoever. And you guys are probably the biggest complainers of the recent financial debacle which was based in greed of both buyers and sellers. There's a real life example for ya. Get it yet?

Steve

 

[Lookin4'67Galaxieconv]

As Hiball and others have said, I don't have a problem with low-ballers, I ignore them.

But what many of you guys are attempting to justify is greed. I really hate to dance on you parade but when you take advantage of someone who is down and out and needing money real bad, then you have NO ETHICS WHEN YOU MAKE A COUNTER OFFER OF TEN CENTS ON THE DOLLAR HE IS OFFERING. Get IT?

And if you guys try to sell me anything, I'm not buying, and that also means your justifications of taking advantage of people. Thanks for posting your nick names for us all.

I'm outta here, enough said, I'm tired of repeating myself to people who have no business ethics whatsoever. And you guys are probably the biggest complainers of the recent financial debacle which was based in greed of both buyers and sellers. There's a real life example for ya. Get it yet?

Steve

What it comes down to is you are against free will. You believe that it's morally wrong for someone to offer much less than it appears what something is worth. But you know what? If someone is selling a piece of property for 100K and the only offer he gets is for 15K, then that's what that property is worth at that point in time if he wants to liquidate it. Should the person who is offering 15K raise the offer to 70K so it won't appear he is "greedy"? Or should he not even offer the money, no matter how desperately the seller needs it b/c he doesn't want to appear he's taking advantage of him? Of course not. Grow up.

Virtually whenever someone plays the "greed" card I know the foundation of his argument is extremely weak. And your "I'm outta here" rant just proves it. Next time, try coming up with a basis for an argument, rather than crying greed, stamping your feet, and running away.

Funny thing about this is, I'm not even what would be considered a lowballer. But I'll argue on principal everytime.

 

[kc-steve]

What it comes down to is you are against free will.

I'm NOT even going to read the rest of that. You are using a strawman argument that has nothing to do with what I said. You are probably the worst of the bunch. Thanks again for posting your nick and beliefs so we can all avoid you like the plague.

Steve

 

[Lookin4'67Galaxieconv]

I'm NOT even going to read the rest of that. You are using a strawman argument that has nothing to do with what I said. You are probably the worst of the bunch. Thanks again for posting your nick and beliefs so we can all avoid you like the plague.

Steve

Thanks for continuing to prove my point, Steve. When you're ready to join the grown ups will you let us know?

Don't make strong statements then run away when someone calls you out on them.

 

[DHS]

You guys think to much of this, a low ball is nothing more than offering what you are willing to pay. The seller is the one that can get mad, accept, or graciously decline the offer. In the end the seller has all the power.

 

[kxxr]

Steve seems to be taking a 'morals' stance in an effort to imply (no, he comes right out and says it) that he is 'more moral' than those he names. I don't know about the other fellows, but he doesn't know me, and nothing I've said makes me guilty of his accusations. All those morals and ethics on the outside just make me wonder what's on the inside.
Besides, Steve, you said you were leaving. And, yes, you are repeating yourself. So, go.

 

[Moose-LandTran]

I don't see it as an issue. Everyone wants a deal.

I often throw in low offers on stuff i could use but don't particularly want. In fact, i just won 3 Snap-on sockets (Including a 13/16" universal spark plug socket.) for £4.20.

I offer what i'm willing to pay, what an item is worth to me. Sometimes my offer gets accepted and i get a good deal, other times it isn't.

Recently there was a very nice brand new Midtronics battery tester on eBay. Starting price $100, Buy It Now for $250. I contacted the seller because i wanted to bid, but was restricted due to it being a US-only auction. They asked what i'd pay for it, i told them $150. Then changed the BIN to $150 and i bought it. If they weren't happy with that price they wouldn't have sold it as such. Not a low ball offer, but less than they had listed and more than the starting price.

 

[Moose-LandTran]

You guys think to much of this, a low ball is nothing more than offering what you are willing to pay.

Exactly. It's only a low ball offer when others think the actual value is substantially more than your offer, which is a matter of opinion and perspective.

 

[Chris Adams]

Low balling just means making an offer that is below the other person's expectations.
That's all.


On the moralizing;
Everyone is greedy.

Without greedy you get poverty for all.


Any person that doesn't 'believe' other people should be greedy had better live in a tar paper shack, no utilities, only gruel for food.

If they are typing on a forum, they better be using a library computer.

Or they are total hypocrites.

Another word for greed is self interest.

Understand that without self interest there is no technology, no society.

Everyone huddles in a hut, starving.
Look at the Pilgrims.
At first, when no greed/self interest was allowed they were starving to death.
When greed/self interest became allowed, they were successful.

In Communist countries 'greed' AKA self interest, was outlawed.
The people starved, they stood in lines for days for bread or shoes.

The people who decreed 'greed is bad', the party members (about 1-2% of the population) lived like nobility, while chastising the poor for the exploitation
of actually wanting something better for themselves.


Are we done here?

 

[ChrisF250]

Does this count as lowballing?

http://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/tls/2461478917.html

looks a lot like that one they sell at HF for 400 sooo i offered 250

 

[Moose-LandTran]

Are we done here?

I'll give you $0.01 for your $0.02.

 

[therealwormey]

i thought this low balling had already been done to death,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,anyhow i think of it as as ice breaker in some cases. some people wont give you a price,they say make me an offer so i offer stupidly low and when they freak out i tell em well tell me what you want and we'll go from there

 

[srmofo]

whoa stand back, we got one in here that is holier than though.

Bottom line: value is in the eye of the beholder.

Taking advantage of a small child is not even in the same category as making an offer of what IM willing to pay for your item. If you dont like it then you have a few choices: walk away, counter offer, or throw a fit, call several people names and then storm out of the room......

nuff said, your actions were childish at best.

I think its time for a lock in here

 

[Coach James]

Robert Kobayashi, who has written many investment books, says that he uses the lowball often to find out who is really willing to deal. For example, when buying real estate, he would simply lowball offer on 20 properties at the same time. He would get out right rejected on 18 of them, but perhaps 2 would counteroffer. Those two counteroffers would be where the best deals were going to be. Conversely, he has said that there has been times he just wanted to dump a property and would seriously take any offer. Any at all.

I think the lowball is certainly an effective probing technique when you know there are many sellers and not many buyers. It's just used to find out if the seller is desperate. If you got a low ball offer accepted, it wasnt because you were a great negotiator, it's more likely that the seller really wanted to get rid of it.

I would be skeptical of anything Kiyosaki claims. His stories change almost monthly.

http://www.johntreed.com/Kiyosaki.html

Coach

 

[BBQ&Love]

I would be skeptical of anything Kiyosaki claims. His stories change almost monthly.

http://www.johntreed.com/Kiyosaki.html

Coach

I offer no defense of Kiyosaki, but I sure wouldn't use John Reed as proof.

 

[Beerman]

I offer no defense of Kiyosaki, but I sure wouldn't use John Reed as proof.

Never heard of either of them. Should I have?????





Beerman

 

[RivennHewn]

Is it my tie? I knew I should have picked a different tie.
Great discussion, thanks everyone. Very informative.

Apparently you picked the right tie for stirring the pot!

Quite the heated discussion.

Bartering is a well accepted/expected task in most countries/cultures.

Only Americans have a problem with Bartering.

A low-ball offer is just a starting point for further negotiations.

 

[Lookin4'67Galaxieconv]

The seller is the one that can get mad, accept, or graciously decline the offer. In the end the seller has all the power.

If anything I'd say the buyer usually has the power. Why? Because the buyer can walk away at any time before a transaction is done if he doesn't like the terms of the deal....price, condition of item, etc, with no harm and find another one to make an offer on. That gives the buyer a lot of leverage and is an advantage that a lot of buyers aren't even conscious of. It all depends on what the buyer is looking for and how necessary it is to them to get it. Having the power to walk away from a transaction with nothing to lose is very valuable. And the buyer has even more power when a seller desperately needs to get money or just plain get rid of something...i.e. old car in the driveway.

The balance of power shifts to the seller if they're selling something desirable by the marketplace and for a good price as defined by the marketplace. If a buyer falls in love with something...a house for example...and has to have it, then their advantage is pretty much gone. The seller can practically choose the terms on which they sell their item at that point.

 

[Hiball]

The balance of power shifts to the seller if they're selling something desirable by the marketplace and for a good price as defined by the marketplace. If a buyer falls in love with something...a house for example...and has to have it, then their advantage is pretty much gone. The seller can practically choose the terms on which they sell their item at that point.

Or... If the Seller doesn't need to sell a item, need the money, etc..... And the balance shifts if any of the above reasons are flipped, Pawn shops are a prime example of both cases IMO.

 

[Moose-LandTran]

 

[stock z/28]

In my opinion its respect for each other that is most important, even in a low-ball situation.

If I have something for sale, for say a $100.00 and some one "respectully" offers 20.00 I dont react badly at all. I look at like its a contact and thats what is most important to me. I will either "respectfully" accept his offer or make another offer to him.

If both people are repectfull and there no ******* contests I enjoy opratunity for a potential sale and a contact.

Its when people ger rude that its an issue.

There is never a reason to disrespect someone in my opinion.

Jeff

 

[Frank The Plumber]

I lifted something very heavy today. Now I have righty tighty and lefty loosey.

My days of wearing a Euro thong may be at an end.

There may be escapige.

 

[hguerrero]

it's really simple guys/girls...

there is an offer, you can accept, negotiate or walk away...

it's a business transaction, don't make it emotional....

 

[Honda guy]

I usually lowball. If I'm not embarrased by how low my offer is, then I've offered too much.

 

[JMLoughrey]

it's a business transaction, don't make it emotional....

...Case closed. You can't make it emotional, or personal for that matter.

An offer is an offer, worst that happens in they say no and you move on. There is no sence in getting all upset.

I've sold countless things on CL, yea, you're gonna find the guys out there that offer you $5 when you're asking $100, its bound to happen. There reasoning is unknown, in the end, worst that you say is no thank you, keep your item and sell it later. Being polite goes a long way in my eyes.

 

[babzog]

Lowballing in my opinion is offering significantly less than an item is worth.

As an example if a wrench set is for sale that retails new for $400 and generally sells used for $200 a $75 offer would be a lowball offer regardless of the seller asking $300 for the set or $100

I don't have any issues with lowball offers, the way I see it, if I'm selling something and need money I want to see and be able to consider every offer on the item because even if it's worth say $200, $75 is a heck of a lot better than $0 if there's no other interest.

Only thing I have a problem with are people who get too emotionally invested in their sales and are easily offended by offers.

I respect sales with "firm" prices and will not make offers, but if an item is OBO I'll happily make whatever offer makes sense for me.

What he said.

 

[ARAMP1]

I sleep just fine at night offering what I think an item is worth based on how bad I want it and how much cash I have to spend at the moment. I've never offered lower as a means to insult and I've been offered A LOT lower than asking price on things. If I don't want to sell at that price, I simply respond with a "no thanks". Pretty simple actually.

 

[bob ny]

when an item is on the for sale thread for a long timeand the seller keeps going down with no results. if that item is on my maybe to buy list i will lowball . but as most of you know wnen an item is on my want list i will pay .thats why i am on the puter at 4 oclock in the morning every day bob w. C'MON CRAFTSMAN

 

[pj_rage]

Quite the heated discussion here, wow.

I have trouble understanding how some people think that a seller accepting a buyer's offer, by their own free will, is morally wrong. If the buyer had every opportunity to research the item in question, set their price, and accept OR decline all offers, how does morality come into play?

An exception, IMHO, is if you feel/know that the seller is incapable of thinking for themselves as a consenting adult, and you are taking advantage of that (ie a child, a drunk/drugged individual, or perhaps a senior citizen who "isn't all there"). If you know, by your own individual judgement, that you are taking advantage of the other party because they are not capable of thinking clearly, that's morally wrong, according to *my* moral compass.

Otherwise, offer whatever you want, but understand the potential consequences of a lowball offer -- the buyer may be insulted, may choose not sell you the item at any price, and people on the internet may question your moral character

 

[Chris Adams]

I'll give you $0.01 for your $0.02.

Well, maybe I'll take $0.016...but not one fraction less.







Actually, after reading the whole thread today, I'm pleasantly surprised at how much plain old common sense dominates the posts.

 

[W650Mike]

I parked a trailer for sale in the front yard asking $500. An old man stopped and began to nit pick at every little blemish so naturally I expected a lowball offer – except that he wouldn’t make an offer – just wanted me to come down. He started to get angry and I started to walk away. He shouted at me that he could get a trailer at Tractor Supply for $495. I turned around and asked him: “Are we actually haggling over 5 bucks on a trailer?” I walked over and shoved a 5 dollar bill in his shirt pocket and went back to the shop. The guy was about to have a heart attack over 5 bucks.

I walked back out with a Sharpie; crossed out the $500 and wrote in $600. It was sold to the next guy that stopped...for $600.

 

[justanengineer]

Ive been accused of this a time or two, but honestly dont believe I low ball at all. If the price isnt within 25% of my belief in the value, then I wont make an offer unless openly solicited for one. That being said, 90% of the population seriously overpays because they "have to have" something, and to me that isnt the real world value. My idea of a real world value is what I can realistically get for something if I had to sell it today, not next week, but what it takes to move it today because prices are cyclic - items go in and out of style and demand. Value also has to do with what I can get an item for if I bought it, not from 90% of people, but from that other 10% if Im willing to wait a week or two.

 

[kc-steve]

Quite the heated discussion here, wow.

I have trouble understanding how some people think that a seller accepting a buyer's offer, by their own free will, is morally wrong. If the buyer had every opportunity to research the item in question, set their price, and accept OR decline all offers, how does morality come into play?

An exception, IMHO, is if you feel/know that the seller is incapable of thinking for themselves as a consenting adult, and you are taking advantage of that (ie a child, a drunk/drugged individual, or perhaps a senior citizen who "isn't all there"). If you know, by your own individual judgement, that you are taking advantage of the other party because they are not capable of thinking clearly, that's morally wrong, according to *my* moral compass.

Otherwise, offer whatever you want, but understand the potential consequences of a lowball offer -- the buyer may be insulted, may choose not sell you the item at any price, and people on the internet may question your moral character

I don't think there is a heated discussion except from those early in the thread that were called out for being unethical.

It's really no big deal. If someone low balls me I ignore it. But it seems there is hope for some people here so I will reiterate what I said using an EXTREME example.

EXTREME EXAMPLE:
If you tell someone you need a dollar to make your house payment this month after losing your job, and the buyer then says "okay I'll give you a dollar for you car since you won't need it anymore" then the offer and buyer is unethical. No need to get hot about it. Just turn it down. The fact is everyone knows the car is worth much more than the offer. The buyer is simply taking advantage of someone in a bad situation.

HOWEVER, the buyer has shown us that he has no integrity or ethics and we would be better off not doing business with him in the first place. Someone that uses unethical practices once will VERY likely be unethical in all aspects of their life. It's best to steer clear.

It's too bad schools stopped teaching ethics and most parents rarely ever teach ethics or integrity to the children . . . and so we have a number of those who have no clue as shown here in this thread. But "pj" I wouldn't categorize you that way, as well as a few others here.

Maybe some people need a better definition of "low-balling."

Steve

 

[kms]

I have made "lowball" offers often, but usually along the lines of "I'm sorry if this is less than you are looking for, but my budget only allows me to offer $x. I understand if that's not enough, but if you are interested would you please get back to me?"

I don't want to insult anyone's pricing, but I will only offer what something is worth TO ME.

 

[Strouty]

I guess I am one of those evil "low ballers" I very rarely offer to buy something at full asking price. In fact the only time I offer full price is when I have all ready gotten a great deal from the same seller. I actually hate low ballers who cry foul if you don't take the offer they give you. I have had a few threaten me on Fleabay. If you don't like the offer counter it, if the person still offers a "low ball" offer then you can tell them sorry you are not interested. I don't think it hurts to ask, I even dicker with firm price items. You can never tell what you can get when you ask. If someone offers me something that I don't need, I will really low ball it, but for the most part, I medium ball it. It is great hearing the different opinions and positions everyone takes. It is totally a psychological battle between seller and buyer. Low balling is the same thing as when some sellers start the price way too high, they expect to get less, but don't want to start at the lower price and get beaten down from there. As far as I know the seller always wants to get as much money as possible and the buyer wants to pay as little as possible. If at any point the seller accepts the buyer's offer then they both win.

 

[Strouty]

Low balling is also like a $500 item on ebay and you bid $1, it should be a starting point, but if the market has no demand for the item then the $1 will win it. No one is being unethical, but I feel some of you low ball haters would would refuse to sell the item and you were obviously too cheap to pay the reserve auction fee! who is unethical now? I love good arguments(discussions).