Low Ceilings, need lighting advice

[bigdubz]

Hey Everyone,
I just finished unpacking at my new place, first garage!

As you can see in the picture, the ceilings are fairly low, about 7.5ft. I think I can deal with typical T8 4ft fixtures in the sections where the garage doors are not, but I am having trouble figuring out what to do above the doors.

There is about 1.5 inches of clearance above the doors when they are up, so I am looking at recessed cans. The space above the garage is a bedroom.

Anyone have a creative idea that may be better than 4-5 6inch cans over each door?

Thanks,
Andrew

 

[rlitman]

LED under-cabinet strips maybe?
If you go with the cans, be sure to get the sealed type rated to be used in contact with insulation (IC).

 

[Ray-CA]

Can you install recessed ceiling lights (something like these: http://www.homedepot.com/Lighting-F...play?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053?)

They should be pretty flush to the ceiling.

Ray

 

[bigdubz]

rlitman - LEDS are an interesting idea, I'll look those up and see how the light output compares. IC cans for sure, just cut a hole to inspect, and there is insulation between the joists.

Ray - That fixtures listed at 4.5 inches in height, and I didn't see how it could be recessed.

Thanks for the suggestions guys.

Next question, considering the insulation, the joists in the ceiling running perpendicular to the direction of the wire runs, and the generally ugly drywall in place, would I come out ahead of the game by just taking down the drywall and starting from scratch? I think I just answered my own question....

Any good rules of thumb for quantity and placement of recessed lights?
Here's what I was thinking:

sidenote: Ray, what kinda of "cobra" in your avatar? My father just placed his order for a Factory Five.

 

[Ray-CA]

The lights of that type, get recessed by cutting into the ceiling drywall and mounting the light flange to the surrounding drywall.

The car is a FFR. We completed it in late 2006. If I'm not on-line here, you can find me at http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/content.php or here http://www.ffcars.com/

Ray

 

[mrb]

you stated there is living space above the garage. You must maintain the integrety of the fire rated seperation. Meaning any lights you recess into the ceiling need a 'back box' made of the right kind of drywall and properly mudded and taped.

 

[bigdubz]

you stated there is living space above the garage. You must maintain the integrety of the fire rated seperation. Meaning any lights you recess into the ceiling need a 'back box' made of the right kind of drywall and properly mudded and taped.

Wow, I looked into what this entails and it certainly adds some cost and complexity. Thanks very much for the heads up.

What about using typical surface mount T8 fixtures, after "raising" the drywall between the joists a few inches? If the drywall was replaced continuously and wrapped the joist. Like this, but with the ends blocked and wrapped with sheetrock as well:

Thanks again,
Andrew

 

[rsa]

What about using typical surface mount T8 fixtures, after "raising" the drywall between the joists a few inches?

Or maybe adapt troffer lighting? You'll still need to address contact-with-insulation code issues. Click on the picture below for more information about, and images of, forum member HIRISC's install.

 

[Stuart in MN]

Like mrb said, since there is living space above the garage you'd have to maintain the fire rating of the ceiling somehow. I'd try to get by with lights on either side of the doors, rather than mess around cutting in fixtures above them - say, one fluorescent fixture on the beam running between the doors, and one fluorescent fixture on either side. The two on each side could be mounted at an angle where the walls meet the ceiling, so they shine out in the space under the doors.

 

[bigdubz]

Thanks for the input everyone.

After meeting with my electrician, it came down to the same two options mentioned in this thread:

1. use a recessed fixture and building the back-box to keep the fire rating in place and prevent contact with insulation. Pros: Cleanest look Cons: uncertainty about fire/IC issues

or

2. Modify the drywall ceiling to allow the extra ~2 inch of clearance I'd need to install surface mount fixtures as shown in the last picture I posted.
Pros: surface mounted fixtures, no question about heat issues, can use 4-bulb fixtures
Cons: More drywall work


Either option requires cutting up the ceiling and building in the ceiling cavity.

According to the electrician I brought in to consult (and later assist with the install), the existing ceiling does not appear to be fire rated drywall. It's 1/2 inch thick and does appear to be identical to the drywall on the walls. The house was built in 1973, was fire rating walls and ceilings common back then?

In either case, I thinking that I should add a layer of fire-rated sheetrock to the whole ceiling while making the recesses for the lighting. At the least I would be able to add some noise insulation and some additional measure of safety.

 

[volleyball]

I would rip down the ceiling and spray foam it. Warmer floor and reduce emissions from entering the home. Do your wiring and build proper boxes for fixtures and then fire rated drywall on ceiling. You don't want to endanger your family.
If this is on hold for awhile, rope lights will give you general illumination and be thin.

 

[mrb]

too bad you dont have 2" above the door. Lithonia SM strips are only 1-7/8" thick

 

[bigdubz]

too bad you dont have 2" above the door. Lithonia SM strips are only 1-7/8" thick

MRB,
I double checked and the center track for the opener and it's 2 inches thick. Not sure how I got 1.5 before.

I checked out those lights, they look pretty good. Would you recommend adding a sheet of aluminum or similar behind the light since they do not have reflectors?

Also, since you brought up the fire rating issue earlier in the thread, do you know if there is anything wrong with my idea to "recess" the ceiling instead of the light fixture? It's more work, but allows me to add either twice the light, or spend half the money comparing the SM fixtures with a 4 bulb fixture. I would only need 1.5 inches of another clearance to fit the traditional fixtures, and I can get them locally.

I'm willing to put the work into the ceiling even it's a PITA. I've worked in under-lit spaces for so long, and with a 2 car garage, I don't want to concede a darker area if at all possible. Whether that means modifying the ceiling or shelling out more $, I would like to get it right the first time.

Thanks again for your input, it's truly appreciated.

Andrew

 

[bigdubz]

I found a couple of other fixtures such as
http://www.pegasuslighting.com/t8-fluorescent-side-mount-fixtures.html

A bit of a premium to pay for the low-profile (1.75 thick) at 2x more than standard fixtures, but I wouldn't be restricted in placing them, and they could easily be relocated if necessary (using conduit).

Thanks for the suggestions MRB and everyone else. Now that the tricky part of figured, I can get started on insulating the walls and getting this garage into shape.

Andrew

 

[taumac]

I think this all depends on what you tend you use garage for. I have same issue with garage door being really close to ceiling. I have 7 4ft flourscents 4 for when working 1 for genernal 1 over by clothes dryer and 1 over work bench. I also have tracking light over bench with 5 50w haolgen over bench and over by my tv/radio/ desk i have 2 shelves and counter which use as desk with low voltage under cabinet lighting. Everything a have can be turn on/off depending on what I doing out side. It really doesnt have to be expensive but functional. I liked the light lay out but recessing it alot of work and trust me with just mine 4 4fters on it bright out there so dont know if need to go over doors but its your place good luck.

 

[slickgt1]

Just get this. Snake it around your shop till you get bored, plug it into a switched outlet, and you are done.

http://www.1000bulbs.com/product/2120/SIV-206ULC.html

Just get the white.