Low Torque Spec Wheel Nut's... I Just Can't Do It.

[Rico.]

My Sister and Bro in law have a couple of pieces of lightweight french Aluminium foil with
wheels on, that they call cars, and after recently doing a complete rear brake overhaul on
one of them I noticed something in the manual.

It said that the torque specs for the wheel nuts, or bolts to be accurate, was only
66 lb ft... So I did them up and it felt like I had just done them finger tight
and a smidge more... I just couldn't do it.

I am absolutely sure that the specs are right, but I just couldn't bring myself to put wheels
on my families cars that didn't feel tight, so I torqued them to 90 lb ft and sent my
bro in law on his way, At least knowing the wheels would stay on. I am quite happy to
deal with any ramifications of slightly over torqued wheel nuts with the peace of mind that
comes with it.

Any one else have this problem... Or am I once again, how shall we say... a Unique Individual

 

[larry_g]

Ok then.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[mrborohachi]

Toyota's factory torque spec is 76ft/lbs and I thought that was low. What mfg car were you working on?

 

[rockchucker]

Does this happen to be a Specification for Grease added to the Threads? You can take about 1/3 off of the Torque Spec with Greased Threads. Even Nissan's Spec for 12x1.25mm Lug Nuts is 72-87 lb/ft. Which is not far off from 66 lb/ft. Most vehicle Lug Nuts do not need much over 70-80 lb/ft.

 

[Rico.]

What mfg car were you working on?

It is a Peugeot 206.

I must admit, I have never seen 66 lb ft speced for any other car, it just seems too low.

 

[glenmore]

Mercedes is only 81 ft-lbs and torque is important because the rotors are thinner, and not meant to be turned. Roughly every 3rd pad change and change the front rotors.

Too much or uneven torque and you warp the rotors.

 

[rlitman]

Subaru is mostly 65ft-lbs. They use a fine thread stud, so less torque gives the same tension.

 

[Rico.]

Too much or uneven torque and you warp the rotors.

I can deal with a set of 20 quid brake discs if they get warped. I'm still not putting
those wheels on with 66 lb/ft

The spec didn't mention any lube of any kind, so one would have to assume dry torque.

 

[alxdgr8]

Torque spec for my Touareg is 133 lb-ft (180Nm)

 

[oldtools]

It all depend on bolt size and grade. If they use small bolt, then the torque is lower. You should torque to manufacturer spec.

 

[toolaholic]

I'm sure that the manufacturer has some wiggle room. You went 50% higher. It's not like you doubled it.Imagine how tight they would be at the local jiffy lube or tire store using air tools.

 

[blackz26]

Torque Spec is there for a reason.

 

[jjjrmx5]

Torque spec for my Touareg is 133 lb-ft (180Nm)

Good for you, no matter how irrelevant and random that info is to this topic.

 

[NiteWolf]

a 2000 Ford Focus lugs are only torqued to 63 ft/lbs.

 

[RCP]

Seem like with specs that low, if I was helping someone on the side of the road with a flat tire, I might over torque their spare using a tire iron by mildly trying.

 

[Coach James]

Good for you, no matter how irrelevant and random that info is to this topic.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Coach

 

[Rico.]

The spec is there for a reason....... Yes it is.

Should I use the manufacturers specs... Yes I should.

Will I be quite happy to put wheels nuts on at 60 odd lb/ft if thats what the spec is... No I won't


I guess I could live with 80 lb/ft... It's a psychological hurdle folks...

 

[SpannerMonkey]

I've owned a few pieces of lightweight french Aluminium foil with wheels on called cars. I've had the wheels on and off them a lot! Yeah, the torque setting does feel low. I've had not any problem until my current Citroen Xantia. One of the hubs must have a problem as the wheel nuts will work loose at 90nm! Fortunately, I noticed the vibration, stopped and found the nuts were finger loose. I've tightened up them up old school style (bounce up and down on wheel wrench) and it's been fine since.

 

[Rico.]

I've owned a few pieces of lightweight french Aluminium foil with wheels on called cars. I've had the wheels on and off them a lot! Yeah, the torque setting does feel low. I've had not any problem until my current Citroen Xantia. One of the hubs must have a problem as the wheel nuts will work loose at 90nm! Fortunately, I noticed the vibration, stopped and found the nuts were finger loose. I've tightened up them up old school style (bounce up and down on wheel wrench) and it's been fine since.

Well that seals the deal for me... I'm very glad to hear you caught it in time.

You new guys with your digital, blu tooth enabled socket set can say what you like,
sometimes old school just keeps you going on down the road.

 

[RCP]

Well that seals the deal for me... I'm very glad to hear you caught it in time.

You new guys with your digital, blu tooth enabled socket set can say what you like,
sometimes old school just keeps you going on down the road.

My socket set can update my facebook status with torque readings

 

[shampoop]

Should I use the manufacturers specs... Yes I should.

Will I be quite happy to put wheels nuts on at 60 odd lb/ft if thats what the spec is... No I won't


I guess I could live with 80 lb/ft... It's a psychological hurdle folks...

Gotta remember that engineers are smarter than you are and know the subject matter much better than you do.

Have fun with broken wheel studs

 

[bhalv]

Cessna 402b main wheel torque, 40in. lbs.

 

[Rico.]

Gotta remember that engineers are smarter than you are and know the subject matter much better than you do.

Have fun with broken wheel studs

Of course they are and of course they do...


However if 80 ft/lb's can break a wheel stud I would suggest that the engineer that
designed that stud had just found out his wife was ******* his best friend and that
everyone in the office secretly hated him.... and thought he smelt funny... Oh and also
thought he was a complete retard and that his latest design for a wheel stud shouldn't
be made out of plastic.

 

[ilovevocs]

Cessna 402b main wheel torque, 40in. lbs.

How many fasteners are they using. Must be a large qty of smaller fasteners.

 

[justanengineer]

My Sister and Bro in law have a couple of pieces of lightweight french Aluminium foil with
wheels on, that they call cars

Haha....thanks for the chuckle, never heard that one. The joke on this side of the pond is that "French cars are so bad that not even the French buy them, only the British do." Sorry, couldnt resist.

Good luck with your wheel studs. I dont always measure the torque properly when installing wheels, preferring "calibrated hands" sometimes instead, so I cant say much on that subject.

 

[cantoo]

My niece had her summer tires put on her ford minivan by Canadian Tire. It has factory aluminum rims on it. 2 days later her husband is driving down the highway by himself and the front wheel falls off. Lucky there was no traffic and he went straight into passenger side ditch. The wheel studs were all broke, apparently Canadian Tire torgued all the bolts too tight for aluminum rims. Canadian Tire paid the $1000 repair and towing bill at the local Ford dealer no questions asked. Good thing the road was clear and the kids were not with him.
Might wanna read the specs and use them.

 

[bhalv]

How many fasteners are they using. Must be a large qty of smaller fasteners.

Nope, one big nut that is cotter pinned. That's all.

 

[chris142]

Older GM's used 7/16 studs and they called for 65ft lbs. Whole bunch of nova's and Blazers were running around and the wheels never fell off.

 

[Murphy4570]

Gotta remember that engineers are smarter than you are and know the subject matter much better than you do.

Have fun with broken wheel studs

There's a special place in hell reserved for overthinking engineers. Don't go there.

Engineers are the epitome of book smart but common sense stupid. Some of them are my friends!


As for wheel stud/bolt torque, I usually adhere to torque spec. For lug bolts, I break out the torque wrench. For regular studs, they get the torque stick on an impact if something fancy, or just the impact if its good old fashioned heavy steel stuff (steel wheels on an F-250 for example, those get the GUD-N-TITE torque spec).

 

[diesel research]

Of course they are and of course they do...


However if 80 ft/lb's can break a wheel stud I would suggest that the engineer that
designed that stud had just found out his wife was ******* his best friend and that
everyone in the office secretly hated him.... and thought he smelt funny... Oh and also
thought he was a complete retard and that his latest design for a wheel stud shouldn't
be made out of plastic.

there is more to it than that. cosmetic design team demands some wheel requiring smaller studs/nuts to accommodate their fancy design. accounting wants to shave a few cents off each unit. another team is shaving weight. engineer performs computational analysis and stress tests, and concludes designis sufficient AT SPEC/rated load. things are getting pushed closer to their designed/intended limits, with less room for error.

 

[CWP1616L]

It is a Peugeot 206.

I must admit, I have never seen 66 lb ft speced for any other car, it just seems too low.

I think I could probably get 66 lb ft with a 10'' long 1/2'' drive ratchet like the S80.

 

[GSteg]

Nothing wrong with 66 ft-lbs, especially if the fastener is smaller. It takes less torque to achieve a specific bolt tension than a larger fastener. Torque a 3/4" and 1" lug nut to 100 ft-lbs and the 3/4" will have the higher bolt tension.

 

[marshaul]

there is more to it than that. cosmetic design team demands some wheel requiring smaller studs/nuts to accommodate their fancy design. accounting wants to shave a few cents off each unit. another team is shaving weight. engineer performs computational analysis and stress tests, and concludes designis sufficient AT SPEC/rated load. things are getting pushed closer to their designed/intended limits, with less room for error.

This.

Also, I'd point out that, for torques below 150 ft-lbs or so, the primary reason to give a torque specification at all is to discourage over torquing.

Think about it: it's not that they're worried you won't bother/be able to give it a whopping 66 ft-lbs if they don't insist you do. Quite the opposite – they're specifically telling you not to just go ahead and wrench on it, as the average lug wrench will deliver 66 ft-lbs before you even notice the effort.

 

[Gert]

How about lockwire the wheelnuts/bolts after setting them to the right torque first?

 

[kursplat]

i hope you don't work on anything old...

 

[Kracin]

My Sister and Bro in law have a couple of pieces of lightweight french Aluminium foil with
wheels on, that they call cars, and after recently doing a complete rear brake overhaul on
one of them I noticed something in the manual.

It said that the torque specs for the wheel nuts, or bolts to be accurate, was only
66 lb ft... So I did them up and it felt like I had just done them finger tight
and a smidge more... I just couldn't do it.

I am absolutely sure that the specs are right, but I just couldn't bring myself to put wheels
on my families cars that didn't feel tight, so I torqued them to 90 lb ft and sent my
bro in law on his way, At least knowing the wheels would stay on. I am quite happy to
deal with any ramifications of slightly over torqued wheel nuts with the peace of mind that
comes with it.

Any one else have this problem... Or am I once again, how shall we say... a Unique Individual

had to go through something similar with a co-worker when i mentioned that i had to borrow a torque wrench to get my crank bolt torqued down on my supra. the crank pulley bolt on a chevy 350 is something like 66 ft lbs, and the supras crank bolt for the harmonic damper is 243ft/lbs. different materials, different sizes, different cars and engineers.

 

[91bronc300]

Cessna 402b main wheel torque, 40in. lbs.

I think you're talking bearing preload on the wheel bearing.

 

[oldtools]

There is a reason why torque is specified. For wheel stud, life is at stake (you and others). Engineer tend to give good margin on them to accommodate alot of unknowns. If you think you know better and do not want to follow the recommendation, then you are reducing your safety margin and increase your risk. If you are willing to accept the consequence, then that is up to you.

 

[alxdgr8]

Good for you, no matter how irrelevant and random that info is to this topic.

Just showing the wide span of torque specs which should convince people that they should follow them...not just torque to one spec for all of their cars.
Not completely off in left field, didn't think I had to spell it all out.

 

[Kracin]

Good for you, no matter how irrelevant and random that info is to this topic.

what is so irrelevant about showcasing the difference in torque specs between cars? op was fearful of under-torquing the lugs on the cars he was working on... should he be fearful of over-torquing the lugs on a toureg? the response should be "no, it's the factory spec, for factory wheels and studs" for both cars.