Low Torque Spec Wheel Nut's... I Just Can't Do It.
- Thread starter Rico.
- Start date
very good point.
you have no idea whether or not the lug nuts or the studs are a bolt that is or isn't stretched. and should always go with the factory recommendations as long as the hardware came from the factory. even different wheels will cause some variations.
but just because you torque your lugs to 120 ft lbs on your first car, doesn't mean every car after that needs 120 ft lbs, or is even safe to use 120 ft lbs on. could easily overstretch the bolts/lugs/studs.
rockchucker
Well-known member
Common sense IS Torque to Spec. Nobody can argue this with Fasteners. It is asinine.
Jeff95TA
Well-known member
There's a special place in hell reserved for overthinking engineers. Don't go there.
Engineers are the epitome of book smart but common sense stupid. Some of them are my friends!
As for wheel stud/bolt torque, I usually adhere to torque spec. For lug bolts, I break out the torque wrench. For regular studs, they get the torque stick on an impact if something fancy, or just the impact if its good old fashioned heavy steel stuff (steel wheels on an F-250 for example, those get the GUD-N-TITE torque spec).
Soooooo.... they overthought the torque specs, but yet you follow them....
sberry
Banned
Here is what I have a hard time with. My Snappy wrench manual specs row to torque threads as does the John Deere mechanic school and most engineers I have asked. How and where did they start the practice of dry torque dry thread installs? As far as I can figure they must figure the avg mechanic is too dumb and lazy to oil?
I get to see and service equipment we worked on decades ago, some in severe service, outside stored. There is no substitute for oil on a bolt during installation and on top of that it makes it all worse by adding to error factors not reducing them.
Even a child can feel the difference in a bolt with a little oil on it. Turn them with fingers. Torque sticks are a poor substitute for learning real feel, a lot of guys think every tool is a license to be a speed demon and allow for scatter shot installation.
I get to see and service equipment we worked on decades ago, some in severe service, outside stored. There is no substitute for oil on a bolt during installation and on top of that it makes it all worse by adding to error factors not reducing them.
Even a child can feel the difference in a bolt with a little oil on it. Turn them with fingers. Torque sticks are a poor substitute for learning real feel, a lot of guys think every tool is a license to be a speed demon and allow for scatter shot installation.
sberry
Banned
Its the least of it, I don't know how many stretched lug nuts there are in the world but its easy to see stuck stripped and seized. What one has no idea of is the condition, where its going to stick or is even different when a guy zooms it on with air gun, stick or not or hand tightens slow so not to make heat.
sberry
Banned
This is about like the worry over warranty and warped rotors. For every super tight stretched bolt in some critical app there is 100 stuck busted ones.
I took some apart the other day that been buried in mud and underwater for 10 years. We can see an era where I started to stress the spray on installation, bolts for hitches under trucks etc come right apart. I came across some clamps where I could tell I had done them early on, the installer didn't spray.
We started with wd40 in bulk and added a pint or so per gallon of atf. The dispensers are a mess so we went to cans, kroil was good but they cheaped the can and we use a few dozen cans a year, lately its liq wrench. Its cheap, can be had on sale. The only one I am not nuts about is that Walmart stuff. Its some dry formula like wd, not enough oil in it for my taste but it could be imagination.
I took some apart the other day that been buried in mud and underwater for 10 years. We can see an era where I started to stress the spray on installation, bolts for hitches under trucks etc come right apart. I came across some clamps where I could tell I had done them early on, the installer didn't spray.
We started with wd40 in bulk and added a pint or so per gallon of atf. The dispensers are a mess so we went to cans, kroil was good but they cheaped the can and we use a few dozen cans a year, lately its liq wrench. Its cheap, can be had on sale. The only one I am not nuts about is that Walmart stuff. Its some dry formula like wd, not enough oil in it for my taste but it could be imagination.
just a thought, you ever think that the torque spec IS for a dry bolt install?
using oil on an application that doesn't call for it can cause the bolt to stretch more than intended. there is a place for everything, which is why you don't use moly lube to install lug nuts, but you use them to install headbolts.
sberry
Banned
Why would one change the standard to "dry" ,,,,, a less reliable factor than lightly oiled.
sberry
Banned
Take 10 bolts, oil light, torque correct, measure strain, measure error plus or minus,,, take 10 dry bolts, torque to spec, measure strain, compare difference..
sberry
Banned
In the real world there is 25 bolts that do not provide the clamp power they should due to the fact they stopped turning before they applied the correct for every one someone "stretched" by a gnats *** of overtorqe cause it had a little wd40 on the threads.
My 25 to 1 is probably wrong, its likely 50 to one or better.
On one hand we got one guy not going to worry about gross over power and the next that panics if its got a 10% error.
,,, ha.
My 25 to 1 is probably wrong, its likely 50 to one or better.
On one hand we got one guy not going to worry about gross over power and the next that panics if its got a 10% error.
,,, ha.
we all know the difference between a dry torque and a lubricated torque.
like the 1-1/4" L9 bolts used to hold an A-frame on the bottom of a casting machine. all torqued to right around 1450 ft/lbs of torque, DRY, because that is what the torque for those bolts, fresh from the box is.
also, be sure you know wether or not the bolts you have came oiled or not, likely if they are an uncoated bolt and came oiled, they should be installed like they are from the box, with that thin film of oil on it.
the difference is, they are different, that is it.
also, just for reference, there are different torque specs for dry, motor oil (30 weight straight), and moly lube when doing engine assembly. all different torque ratings for the same bolt. the same applies for other fasteners, go by what it says... if it says with oil, install with oil, if it doesn't specify, then it's probably dry
edit :
^ from arp's site for instructions to a specific bolt. some contain different instructions depending on what they are, and if you call arp directly you can get the right torque specs for using their fasteners without lubrication as well, they have all the info. just like any repair or service manual should
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sberry
Banned
Only reason it hurts anything on most wheels where the stud goes in to a hub,,, not the rotor,,, is that its hard to change beside the road if someone in the shop zipped it on hot and fast to 150 with an air gun. Most of the time those are not stretched, they stop turning seized.
Bigger world issue,,, low air in tires, found one with 65 in a 35 too the other day.
Bigger world issue,,, low air in tires, found one with 65 in a 35 too the other day.