Low torque torque wrench question

[Coach James]

Another torque wrench question: I have a HF one that is 20-200 in.-lbs. I have used it several times, and it "seems" to be ok. Still, being a HF wrench makes me wonder if I should get something better. I don't want to spend money if it is not needed though.

I know some folks like the HF wrenches and some hate them. Any opinions, experience based, on the 1/4 inch 20-200in-lb ones?

Thanks

Coach

 

[WhiffySpark]

I don’t use a torque wrench for that low of torque but handling the snapon one clicked style they are very nice

 

[mfrantz90]

I wouldn’t trust any harbor freight torque wrench... checked a buddy’s against my tech angle and it was 25% off 4 out of 5 times


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[hautpot]

might look into a torque screwdriver

 

[bob15]

might look into a torque screwdriver

Never seen a torque screwdriver that goes to 200 in/lbs.

 

[bob15]

Another torque wrench question: I have a HF one that is 20-200 in.-lbs. I have used it several times, and it "seems" to be ok. Still, being a HF wrench makes me wonder if I should get something better. I don't want to spend money if it is not needed though.

I know some folks like the HF wrenches and some hate them. Any opinions, experience based, on the 1/4 inch 20-200in-lb ones?

Thanks

Coach

If you question it, why keep it? You will always ask yourself: is it accurate or not? Buy a good American-made torque wrench and be done with it.....CDI, Seekonk, etc

 

[Fbmoose48]

Proto makes good torque wrenches that can be had relatively cheap on Amazon from time to time

 

[The Tool Tyrant]

Honestly, I have to equate torque wrenches to helmets... $25.00 helmet protecting a $25.00 brain If a fastener calls for a specific torque, you surely don't want to just 'go through the motions' using some 'Willy Nilly' brand torque wrench. **** it up and buy a quality torque wrench.

 

[rlitman]

I wouldn’t trust any harbor freight torque wrench... checked a buddy’s against my tech angle and it was 25% off 4 out of 5 times


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I checked mine, and found it to be well within 10% across the scale.

That's a Pittsburgh Pro 1/4" drive torque wrench underneath the transparent heat shrink.

 

[mrborohachi]

I have a question for the OP. Are you needing the torque wrench for engine head work? Just wanted to see what your needing a low range wrench for? At my old job we used Wiha screwdriver torque wrenches and they worked great.
Currently my lowest and only dial type torque wrench is a Tohnichi I bought off eBay. Tohnichi is a Japanese company that only makes torque tools

 

[mfrantz90]

I checked mine, and found it to be well within 10% across the scale.



That's a Pittsburgh Pro 1/4" drive torque wrench underneath the transparent heat shrink.

That’s 1 out of how many they make?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[sberry]

Ok used a couple and they were perfect. What is it you are trying to do. Last time I use one was rod bolt small engine. Once you get the feel of it it's so rare, just never use them. I can do small heads about as good by feel.

 

[finn]

Ok used a couple and they were perfect. What is it you are trying to do. Last time I use one was rod bolt small engine. Once you get the feel of it it's so rare, just never use them. I can do small heads about as good by feel.

I’ll take that bet.

 

[Coach James]

Thanks for the responses guys. I use a low torque wrench for things like bolts on valve covers, transmission pans, etc.

I know some guys say they have a torque wrench in their elbow, but I don't trust my elbows that much.

Coach

 

[rlitman]

That’s 1 out of how many they make?

I think you must have slept through statistics. That's one out of the one example I cited, or 100% success rate by my testing.

I actually own two 1/4" drive HF torque wrenches (out of my four 1/4" drive torque wrenches), and both checked out the same.

I don't own any 3/8" HF torque wrenches (just an old US made Husky and a Stahlwille), so I have nothing to compare against.

I own two Pittsburgh Pro 1/2" torque wrenches that I keep in my cars for lug nut use. I've got a Snap On dial torque wrench that I've checked against these, that I have also checked against my two Snap On (PI OEM) split beam torque wrenches, and my 1/2" drive Stahlwille. They were also more than acceptable for my purposes.

Most of what I see in this thread is either hearsay, or people trying to justify what they paid for their own torque wrenches. The fact is that if you truly need a precision instrument, the HF will do no better or worse than a Snap On, as either is completely worthless without a calibration program.

For comparison, if I were to ask two people what time it was, and one read the time off of their Rolex, and the other off of their Timex, I would have good reason to believe that the Timex has the more accurate time, but with only two time sources available, that belief is purely conjecture. However, if you eliminate either one of those time sources from the equation, I would then know exactly what time it was.

 

[sberry]

Thanks for the responses guys. I use a low torque wrench for things like bolts on valve covers, transmission pans, etc.

I know some guys say they have a torque wrench in their elbow, but I don't trust my elbows that much.

Coach

I been doing this a while, doing engines since I was in high school. It can't hurt but it just wouldn't cross my mind to use a torque wrench on a common part. Where it is good is for new people to do some comparison as to what 20 or 35 really does feel like.
Engine rebuilding just isn't so common anymore, reman, valve jobs used to be a good share of mechanic work back in the day, today they will run well north of 100k on a set of plugs and a couple oil changes. Used to be would have needed several tune ups, valve job and way lots of them needed reman by then.

 

[alwaysFlOoReD]

I been doing this a while, doing engines since I was in high school. It can't hurt but it just wouldn't cross my mind to use a torque wrench on a common part. Where it is good is for new people to do some comparison as to what 20 or 35 really does feel like.
Engine rebuilding just isn't so common anymore, reman, valve jobs used to be a good share of mechanic work back in the day, today they will run well north of 100k on a set of plugs and a couple oil changes. Used to be would have needed several tune ups, valve job and way lots of them needed reman by then.

This is so true. I went thru an auto museum and there was a chart of how long an engine lasted before needing a rebuild. IIRC the 1900's had a life expectancy of 10-20,000 miles. It gets progressively better thru the decades. When I was starting playing with engines in the late 70's expectancy was about 100,000 miles. Now it's what...about 240,000?

 

[rusty_ratchet]

I knew someone with an HF torque wrench and compared it with my CDI 3002LDIN. The HF they had was not accurate or give consistent results. If I remember correctly some of the torque values were about half what they should have been.

Some high mileage engines:

 

[rnscustom]

I think you must have slept through statistics. That's one out of the one example I cited, or 100% success rate by my testing.

I actually own two 1/4" drive HF torque wrenches (out of my four 1/4" drive torque wrenches), and both checked out the same.

I don't own any 3/8" HF torque wrenches (just an old US made Husky and a Stahlwille), so I have nothing to compare against.

I own two Pittsburgh Pro 1/2" torque wrenches that I keep in my cars for lug nut use. I've got a Snap On dial torque wrench that I've checked against these, that I have also checked against my two Snap On (PI OEM) split beam torque wrenches, and my 1/2" drive Stahlwille. They were also more than acceptable for my purposes.
Most of what I see in this thread is either hearsay, or people trying to justify what they paid for their own torque wrenches. The fact is that if you truly need a precision instrument, the HF will do no better or worse than a Snap On, as either is completely worthless without a calibration program.

For comparison, if I were to ask two people what time it was, and one read the time off of their Rolex, and the other off of their Timex, I would have good reason to believe that the Timex has the more accurate time, but with only two time sources available, that belief is purely conjecture. However, if you eliminate either one of those time sources from the equation, I would then know exactly what time it was.

I like this reply , I have a few harbor freights ($9.00 ) you can't beat them for the kids throwing them around . Those , 2 craftsman clicks and an old beam type all seem the same . For most things consistency is the goal . Engine internals on big hp motors you want to be right on .

 

[mfrantz90]

I think you must have slept through statistics. That's one out of the one example I cited, or 100% success rate by my testing.



I actually own two 1/4" drive HF torque wrenches (out of my four 1/4" drive torque wrenches), and both checked out the same.



I don't own any 3/8" HF torque wrenches (just an old US made Husky and a Stahlwille), so I have nothing to compare against.



I own two Pittsburgh Pro 1/2" torque wrenches that I keep in my cars for lug nut use. I've got a Snap On dial torque wrench that I've checked against these, that I have also checked against my two Snap On (PI OEM) split beam torque wrenches, and my 1/2" drive Stahlwille. They were also more than acceptable for my purposes.



Most of what I see in this thread is either hearsay, or people trying to justify what they paid for their own torque wrenches. The fact is that if you truly need a precision instrument, the HF will do no better or worse than a Snap On, as either is completely worthless without a calibration program.



For comparison, if I were to ask two people what time it was, and one read the time off of their Rolex, and the other off of their Timex, I would have good reason to believe that the Timex has the more accurate time, but with only two time sources available, that belief is purely conjecture. However, if you eliminate either one of those time sources from the equation, I would then know exactly what time it was.

I didn’t make the comment to start a ******* match. I simply won’t trust a tool that is used to make precision measurements unless it is of the highest quality. My reasoning behind that is pretty good I think.

So let’s say I have 7 hours invested into a job and I’m torquing head bolts down and wrapping things up and uh-oh my 19.99 harbor freight torque wrench wasn’t accurate and a head bolt snaps or it pulls the threads in the block. Now what?

And I’m sure you will say well you should have had it calibrated... ok so who is going to calibrate a harbor freight torque wrench for me without having to pay them? With a Snap on I can step on the truck once a month check to see that it is still accurate and if it isn’t I can send it in and have it calibrated for free for the life of the tool.

Also The Snap On is far more capable than the harbor freight. It will measure ft lbs, in lbs, dnm, and kg-cm. It will also measure degrees turned and will automatically calculate the torque difference for an offset drive tool. And yes I use all of those features regularly.



Maybe the work you do doesn’t require that much precision but either way why take a chance? And why trust a company that produces so much junk and has so many inconsistencies in quality?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[WittHay]

The common torque wrench for measuring low in. lbs is the old school Snap-on dial type. The go up to 75 in. lbs. and are used for measuring rolling torque on expensive gear assemblies, charge pumps and other commercial items

I think you are more accurate tightening small bolts into aluminum with a short wrench or ratchet than a inaccurate 12" long torque wrench. For peace of mind you probably need a CDI quality torque wrench

 

[Crazyjake8493]

I've checked my HF 1/2" torque wrench against more expensive ones and it's been close enough to be acceptable, only gets used on my car's lugnuts and mower deck blade spindle nuts.

I've been looked for a 1/4" model but might go with the Tekton for about $10 more than the HF, I've had good luck with all the Tekton stuff I've had. Again, don't need pinpoint accuracy just fairly close.

 

[engineer2]

Just bought a Capri Tools 31100 1/4-inch Drive, 25-250 Inch Pounds, from Amazon for $49. Seems to be nice quality. Only used it for some spark plugs so far and it's worked well. Claims ±4%, but the cal report that came with it was more like ±2%.

 

[crf450x]

In my opinion a torque wrench is one tool you don't want to cheap out on if you really use it. If you're torquing rod bolts and snap one it's not a huge deal. But if you tighten it to the point that it's weakened or if it's too loose and 5k miles later it breaks or backs out, that cheap torque wrench just cost you thousands. Unlikely, maybe, but not impossible. That's not a risk I want to take. There are hundreds of other scenarios where a $500 torque wrench will save you a whole lot of money.

 

[ItsNemo]

Seriously, who is snapping bolts in the in-lb range while actually using any reasonable (ie not broken or abused) torque wrench?

Sometimes you guys are just plain nuts (ha get it). Most people here aren't building the damn space shuttle.

 

[WheelsNT]

Check into the bicycle tools market for in-lbs torque wrenches. Bicycle mechanics are assembling carbon parts with very specific torque specs, so it’s possible to break things with low but incorrect torque. Park Tool is the leader in that space. I don’t know if Park makes their own torque wrenches or not.

 

[Stuart in MN]

Eastwood is running a Black Friday special on 5 to 80 ft-lb wrench for $10.88. Don;t know if that goes low enough for you or not.

http://www.eastwood.com/economy-3-8..._rW--HLLsbURBVj9TmWJ3F09Rv1YEtnEaAiKlEALw_wcB

 

[WittHay]

Seriously, who is snapping bolts in the in-lb range while actually using any reasonable (ie not broken or abused) torque wrench?

Sometimes you guys are just plain nuts (ha get it). Most people here aren't building the damn space shuttle.

I can't really comment on in lb torque wrenches because I have always used ft lb wrenches to tighten bolts

You are saying that it makes no difference for a DIY to use a $20 Harbor Freight or a $500 Snap-on Techangle to torque transmission pan bolts. The bolts will be tight enough to prevent leaks but not to tight as to cause stripped bolt holes

A remanufactured fuel pump for the tractor in the avatar costs $2,000, and is driven by a gear bolted to a hub with three 5/16 Grade 8 bolts. Thats how the injection pump timing is set. I have always used a Snap-on 5-75 ft. lb. click wrench for those.

Is it okay to a use a $20 torque wrench on a diesel motor or is it asking for trouble?

 

[bob15]

Seriously, who is snapping bolts in the in-lb range while actually using any reasonable (ie not broken or abused) torque wrench?

Sometimes you guys are just plain nuts (ha get it). Most people here aren't building the damn space shuttle.

So what you are saying is to ignore specs and just tighten it to what I think is tight ? I'll remember to tell the engineer I work for when I don't build a pump to spec and it fails 6 weeks into a 12 week test. And yes I have screws that are torqued to 12in/lbs and it makes a difference in performance and failure if they aren't torques correctly.

 

[rlitman]

In my opinion a torque wrench is one tool you don't want to cheap out on if you really use it. If you're torquing rod bolts and snap one it's not a huge deal. But if you tighten it to the point that it's weakened or if it's too loose and 5k miles later it breaks or backs out, that cheap torque wrench just cost you thousands. Unlikely, maybe, but not impossible. That's not a risk I want to take. There are hundreds of other scenarios where a $500 torque wrench will save you a whole lot of money.

Right, so if a bolt backs out or fails, and you used a cheap torque wrench, it's the wrench's fault, but if you use an expensive one, it's the bolt's fault or a design flaw?

Torque is torque. 20 ft-lbs doesn't have a cost associated with it, and the bolt does not know what wrench was used to apply that torque.

As I pointed out above, only trusting your torque to a $500 or even $5000 torque wrench, is like trusting your time to a Rolex. Out of the store, you have a calibration certificate with it, but that will deviate over time, and I doubt many people here have ways of tracking that deviation.

Anyway, torque wrenches all use a small set of similar mechanisms, and all tend to fail in similar ways.

I didn’t make the comment to start a ******* match. I simply won’t trust a tool that is used to make precision measurements unless it is of the highest quality. My reasoning behind that is pretty good I think.

So let’s say I have 7 hours invested into a job and I’m torquing head bolts down and wrapping things up and uh-oh my 19.99 harbor freight torque wrench wasn’t accurate and a head bolt snaps or it pulls the threads in the block. Now what?

And I’m sure you will say well you should have had it calibrated... ok so who is going to calibrate a harbor freight torque wrench for me without having to pay them? With a Snap on I can step on the truck once a month check to see that it is still accurate and if it isn’t I can send it in and have it calibrated for free for the life of the tool.

Also The Snap On is far more capable than the harbor freight. It will measure ft lbs, in lbs, dnm, and kg-cm. It will also measure degrees turned and will automatically calculate the torque difference for an offset drive tool. And yes I use all of those features regularly.



Maybe the work you do doesn’t require that much precision but either way why take a chance? And why trust a company that produces so much junk and has so many inconsistencies in quality?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Look, if you want to spend your dollars on Snap On tools (I know I've done that a lot), that's fine with me. I really like their torque wrenches, though I only own their split beam models, and not a Techangle.

However, I feel the need to point out that Snap On torque wrenches only carry a 1 year warranty, and re-calibration is absolutely not free. Certainly not for a lifetime, and as far as I can tell, not even within the warranty period. Your driver has a torque calibrator? That's news to me.

OTOH, Pittsburgh torque wrenches actually do carry a lifetime warranty. Not that the warranty argument carries much weight with a disposable tool.

 

[ItsNemo]

So what you are saying is to ignore specs and just tighten it to what I think is tight ? I'll remember to tell the engineer I work for when I don't build a pump to spec and it fails 6 weeks into a 12 week test. And yes I have screws that are torqued to 12in/lbs and it makes a difference in performance and failure if they aren't torques correctly.

Uh no, read my post again. I'm saying using any not-broken torque wrench is sufficient for DIY purposes.

If you're in a controlled engineering space that requires tolerances of 0.1% or something, than by all means let them buy you the $5000 weekly calibrated uber never fails torque wrench.

Some people really don't get it...

 

[Eslader]

Maybe the work you do doesn’t require that much precision but either way why take a chance? And why trust a company that produces so much junk and has so many inconsistencies in quality?

OP said he's putting on oil pans and valve covers with it. You'd be fine on both of those if you were 50% off one way or the other. The important thing on parts like that is that the torque be consistent across all the bolts, not hyper-accurate.

I absolutely agree that if you're doing work on precision internals that actually requires high accuracy you should make sure your torque wrench is accurate and at that point it might be worth buying a wrench that comes with free calibration checks and fixes.

But that level of precision is for engine building, race cars, and moon rockets. Most of us aren't doing that.

For what OP says he's doing with it, the HF wrench is more than adequate.

 

[stercorarius]

I think you must have slept through statistics. That's one out of the one example I cited, or 100% success rate by my testing.

I actually own two 1/4" drive HF torque wrenches (out of my four 1/4" drive torque wrenches), and both checked out the same.

I don't own any 3/8" HF torque wrenches (just an old US made Husky and a Stahlwille), so I have nothing to compare against.

I own two Pittsburgh Pro 1/2" torque wrenches that I keep in my cars for lug nut use. I've got a Snap On dial torque wrench that I've checked against these, that I have also checked against my two Snap On (PI OEM) split beam torque wrenches, and my 1/2" drive Stahlwille. They were also more than acceptable for my purposes.

Most of what I see in this thread is either hearsay, or people trying to justify what they paid for their own torque wrenches. The fact is that if you truly need a precision instrument, the HF will do no better or worse than a Snap On, as either is completely worthless without a calibration program.

For comparison, if I were to ask two people what time it was, and one read the time off of their Rolex, and the other off of their Timex, I would have good reason to believe that the Timex has the more accurate time, but with only two time sources available, that belief is purely conjecture. However, if you eliminate either one of those time sources from the equation, I would then know exactly what time it was.

Just real quick, is this response sarcastic or in earnest?

 

[kythri]

I wouldn’t trust any harbor freight torque wrench... checked a buddy’s against my tech angle and it was 25% off 4 out of 5 times

That's one out of how many they make?

 

[guy48065]

I don't like HF clicker torque wrenches but only because their markings are hard to read & the adjustment feels like it's lubricated with sand.
In practice they pass calibration as consistently as any other brand.

I don't buy the "my brother's girlfriends 2nd cousin compared a HF with a CDI and the HF was off by 50%" tales because they don't agree with my experience comparing them to Calibration Standards. Every new HF clicker I've handled has been in-spec (±3%) out of the box. When they DO fail it's because they go non-linear--which means they can't be adjusted to pass in the specified 20-100% range.
Whether that's due to poor metallurgy (spring or wear parts) or owner abuse I can't say. Abuse is a very real possibility since many choose a HF because it's the cheapest thing available/don't know better/have no skills. If an owner over-ranges the tool, uses it to break loose lugnuts, or never winds it back down to minimum it will not stay in cal for long.

 

[Furious Filipino]

I don't know why so many folks get bent out of shape about torque wrenches. A mid-point torque value has a tolerance of at least +/- 15%, far and away well within the +/- 5% that even the cheapest torque wrench I have used. And that's something that even I can get my stamp carrying Mechanical engineer boss to sign off on.

I've got frequently used Pittsburgh tools torque wrenches that are 2-3% closer to torque spec compared to even the infallible Snap-On wrenches, tested on Snap-On's own torque checker, but that's anecdotal evidence.

There is more error to how you pull on the wrench--push vs. pull, horizontal vs. vertical orientation, perpendicularity, orientation of your crow's feet-- to achieve torque than the inherent error in the torque wrench itself. You can prove it to yourself next time a tool truck rolls in with a digital torque gauge.

 

[Schurkey]

There is more error to how you pull on the wrench--push vs. pull, horizontal vs. vertical orientation, perpendicularity, orientation of your crow's feet-- to achieve torque than the inherent error in the torque wrench itself.

There's a lot of truth there...but I also see no reason to deliberately handicap your results with an inconsistent torque wrench, or one that has dips and curves in the true torque-vs-indicated-torque setting arrangement.

If you can stand to use them (Mostly, I can't) the "deflecting beam" torque wrenches tend to be accurate, durable, and never need calibration beyond bending the needle to read true zero at rest.

That's what I use in the 0--120 inch-pound range. I won't use them in the higher-torque applications except to verify torque on an already-tightened fastener. Works great on differential bearing preload.

The downsides to a deflecting-beam torque wrench is the difficulty in using them correctly. I've never seen one with a ratchet head, the hand-grip will pivot and you have to hold it so the hand grip "floats" on the pivot, and the dial has to be looked-at straight-on or you have parallax error. They're a total pain in the ***--but for valve covers and trans pans, it'd probably be fine since both tend to be out in the open with good visibility.

(When I install valve covers or trans pans, I tighten them until I see the gasket squeeze out just a little. Done.)

 

[sberry]

Sometimes I got to wonder how I ever did or do it all. How come my **** doesn't blow up 50 ft out the door? 40 years of doing this, 1000's of repairs, not one failure costing 1000's of dollars cause some bolt wasn't tightened well enough.
I agree, it aint the friggin space shuttle and most of it wont go boom even if you forget one which is a way more likely scenario than a fault from using a cheap wrench.
The last error involving torque I see is over tightened lug nuts and on engine work the tech misread the spec and under tightened them and with some real experience would have known something didn't feel right.
Another I have seen a couple times is where they didn't clean block holes and or oil the bolts a little, again, loose and not a dam thing to do with the wrench. For every one involving the wrench there are 99 or more involving operator error and that's probably being generous.

 

[rlitman]

I don't like HF clicker torque wrenches but only because their markings are hard to read & the adjustment feels like it's lubricated with sand.
In practice they pass calibration as consistently as any other brand...

That sums them up about as well as possible.

edit: Also, their locking mechanism *****, and hampers with adjustment.

...If you can stand to use them (Mostly, I can't) the "deflecting beam" torque wrenches tend to be accurate, durable, and never need calibration beyond bending the needle to read true zero at rest...

I too can't stand to use them. However, the principle behind their operation is how the split beam wrenches work, and why those type torque wrenches don't need to be re-zeroed after each session. That's why I try to avoid using micrometer style torque wrenches as much as possible.

 

[thehorse13]

CDI is a Snap-On industrial brand that can be had for 1/4 the price of torque wrench that has the Snap-On stamp on it. You can find NOS versions on Ebay for around the same price as a Harbor Freight Chinese junker.