Low Voltage Communication Cable Underground Conduit Options

[traumadoc2b]

I have a run of about 800' from the street, through farm field, to a new house. I plan to install conduit underground for communication lines - phone, internet, cable TV.

Pricing HDPE conduit - SDR 11 or 13.5 - is rather salty. I have prices of 65-85 cents per foot for 1.25" and I was considering 2 parallel runs for separate services. For the cheaper price, I actually have to buy a 5000' spool - then would be looking for ideas on how to sell the rest.

When they drilled my well, they laid 2 poly water pipe lines between the house and the well, using one of them for power to the well. This got me to wondering about using irrigation poly pipe in place of thicker HDPE as a conduit for my low voltage cables.

Does anyone have experience with this? I know the irrigation pipe is thinner and can imagine it's not as durable, but it will be buried and how much less durable is it really when people use it for their water supply? Is this a reasonable way to save money without compromising safety (low voltage), or am I just being stupid? Any suggestions on cheaper sources for a half spool of 1.25 or 1.5" HDPE conduit?

 

[Bad Habit]

Talk to your service providers first. Are they providing service at the street and then you are responsible for extending it to your house? Or are they providing service at your house through conduit/duct you installed? They may have requirements for what you need to provide. In any case having an extra is always good insurance, and like all insurance, hopefully you never need it, but very happy to use if you do.

 

[dcg9381]

I have a run of about 800' from the street, through farm field, to a new house. I plan to install conduit underground for communication lines - phone, internet, cable TV.

You might come up with a design for what wire you need. When I built about 4 years ago, I strung up about 1/2 mile worth of co-ax drops so I could "distribute" OTA antenna signal. Totally wasted effort. Modern DVR then YTTV, all I needed was cat5/6. Internet is the only thing I care about anymore. Even that can be installed at the house with StarLink, etc.

I don't have a wired phone. I put a few drops in for one. Here, it's the providers job to get signal to the house/building. You could make their job easier by 3/4 and 1" conduit with pull strings.

Here it's 100% on them to bring the service to the residence. They'll sub-contract that out, if you already have a conduit run they'll use it. I use electrical PVC. 800' is a long way, probably too long for most copper. I'd use 1" electrical PVC.

 

[mm08822]

Definitely check with the providers first.

Although I am a proponent of some type of conduit in ground to protect cable and ease the pain of replacement, maybe consider this:
Run 100' of tubing away from the house to a pull box. Then go the rest of the way with direct bury cables out to the road.

If the soil isn't too coarse, this could save a few $$.

The 100' of tubing is a swag, but enough to clear the house sidewalks, lawn, driveway, plantings.

Mark the trench too.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Talk to your service providers first. Are they providing service at the street and then you are responsible for extending it to your house? Or are they providing service at your house through conduit/duct you installed? They may have requirements for what you need to provide. In any case having an extra is always good insurance, and like all insurance, hopefully you never need it, but very happy to use if you do.

BINGO

if the service handoff is at the road and the OP owns the extension, could be issues especially if theyre handing off the internet on copper ethernet. too long of a run for ethernet or cable TV. would need fiber for either considering RG6 wont carry useable signal much past 150' and RG11 much past 250'.... @ 800' youre looking @ hardline with a booster amp at the tap on the street....

 

[1wook]

I ran 350' of 1/2" black polyethylene pipe (cheap irrigation line from Menards), it was less than $75 for 400'. Let it set in the sun for a while before unrolling it and it's pretty easy to deal with.

 

[wssix99]

Are you putting in conduit so you can upgrade to fiber at a later date? Direct burial is a lot easier.

 

[mm08822]

BINGO

if the service handoff is at the road and the OP owns the extension, could be issues especially if theyre handing off the internet on copper ethernet. too long of a run for ethernet or cable TV. would need fiber for either considering RG6 wont carry useable signal much past 150' and RG11 much past 250'.... @ 800' youre looking @ hardline with a booster amp at the tap on the street....

Who provides the booster amp?
Where is its power coming from?

 

[LopezBart]

Copper Ethernet has a hard protocol limitation of 100 meters. I have to run fiber or wireless to have internet in our shop as the distance is between the shop and the house is perhaps 20% over... A PoE powered repeater (which adds another 100 meter) is an option, but given that the two structures have different grounds (legacy from circa 1999 ) I feel better w/ proper isolation anyway.

 

[traumadoc2b]

So, I did talk to both Comcast/Xfinity and to local phone company when we started building, a few years ago now. Phone company was going to just trench and direct bury, wanted a few hundred bucks. I figured as time passed, I might talk them into using a conduit for comparatively cheaper, if not, I will still have it for future use. On the cable TV/internet, they said they would run the wire if I installed the conduit. For some silly reason at that time he said he would prefer 2", but that might be assuming I was going to do some hack job or something. Seems unnecessary.

Back to the copper over that run, how do they distribute the cable signal overhead, between utility poles? Is that copper and boosted/amplified, or do they use fiber everywhere? Would their installers be forthcoming enough to talk about or plan a fiber install over 800-1000' to my house, or would they just jockey in some coax and shrug their shoulders at me when service *****?

And yes to the upgrade/future use questions. The conduit will allow timing wise (weather mostly, mud, freezing) so that I can put it in and then they can come fish the cable anytime, any month, etc. Not sure at this point when we'll actually be completed with construction and ready to move in. Conduit would also theoretically allow to replace or upgrade fiber, etc in the future.

Putting it in now, before anything else other than the power is in the ground, will mean less concern for hitting anything, will be using my neighbor's skid steer with hydraulic trencher attachment - all I have to do I top off his tank with diesel, which I already buy in bulk for the farm. So, it's the cost of conduit and my time essentially.

 

[dave*99]

Things change over a few years. Best the contact them again for an update.

Starlink may be an option too.

 

[ipgenie]

I ran 2" heavy poly between my house and shop for cat5 connectivity. One of the two cables failed last year (25yr old non burial cat5, I just used what I had) so I'm in the process of replacing it with fiber. It works great for the intended use but like others have said, check with the provider if it'll be used for their service.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

So, I did talk to both Comcast/Xfinity and to local phone company when we started building, a few years ago now. Phone company was going to just trench and direct bury, wanted a few hundred bucks. I figured as time passed, I might talk them into using a conduit for comparatively cheaper, if not, I will still have it for future use. On the cable TV/internet, they said they would run the wire if I installed the conduit. For some silly reason at that time he said he would prefer 2", but that might be assuming I was going to do some hack job or something. Seems unnecessary.

you should reach back out to them to make sure that is still the case. here ATT and Comcast wants 1.25" conduit.

Back to the copper over that run, how do they distribute the cable signal overhead, between utility poles? Is that copper and boosted/amplified, or do they use fiber everywhere?

Its a combination of mediums. The distro on the pole and underground is coax hardline or fiber depending on the area.

Would their installers be forthcoming enough to talk about or plan a fiber install over 800-1000' to my house, or would they just jockey in some coax and shrug their shoulders at me when service *****?

If fiber is not already being used in your area, they wont install it on your property. As to them installing coax that has mediocre signal, they arent gonna do that. now what they may do is install service at the edge of your property and then its up to you to get a useable signal on your property where you need it

you really need to call them back out and discuss the details

 

[dave*99]

You may need to get past the order taker on the phone and let them know you have a real engineering design question, not how much they charge for Netflix.

 

[justsam]

Direct TV and Starlink, unless service provider is willing to provide to your residence demarc. How is power being provided?

 

[Codyboy]

Definitely check with the providers first.

Although I am a proponent of some type of conduit in ground to protect cable and ease the pain of replacement, maybe consider this:
Run 100' of tubing away from the house to a pull box. Then go the rest of the way with direct bury cables out to the road.

If the soil isn't too coarse, this could save a few $$.

The 100' of tubing is a swag, but enough to clear the house sidewalks, lawn, driveway, plantings.

Mark the trench too.

I installed about a 100ft of 1" sch40 from my shop out far enough to get past any concrete or driveway portion I may add later.
The rest of the 300ft can be direct buried for all I care as thats usually how they do it around here. We have fiber through the co-op here so distance shouldn't be an issue.

You may need to get past the order taker on the phone and let them know you have a real engineering design question, not how much they charge for Netflix.

Also this. Talk with their engineering dept and not the 20 y.o. high school dropout that has a GED that answers phones .

Good ole boys around here that do the installs would not care what pipe or conduit you have as long as it will push or pull through. YMMV.

When I had fiber installed from att at the house the installer was very helpful.
He asked where I wanted the box and I told him in this closet, basically in the center of the house.
We pulled it across the 4 car garage and another 125ft through the attic. He had no issues with it.

 

[traumadoc2b]

I have a call out, but as others have suggested, getting past the flying monkeys who answer the phones to sell you cable is challenging.

I looked closer at the lines down our street. I'm nearly certain it's all giant coax with about a half dozen amplifiers over our mile long street. It does look like there are a couple of drops where they may have taken RG11 off the pole and underground to the home. Our old farm house near the front of the property actually has a pole mounted transformer in our back yard, with a sizeable cable from the street to that pole, then what I assume is some sort of filter/drop that switches to RG6 I think to the eave below the utility service mast.

The second photo is across the street, what I believe to be an amplifier. All the phone lines are buried, all the cable (except per house/drop) is overhead.

I wonder if it would provide reasonable service if the signal and that cable could traverse underground back to at least a handhole next to my H post. From what I've gathered reading, I think the drop (in photo) filters out the 60 Hz 'power' on the line, perhaps in the range of 50-60 volts.

 

[Junkman]

I had Frontier telephone serviced by copper wires that are more than 6 decades old. They advised me that they were abandoning the copper system, and I had a year or more to get upgraded to fiber. I ordered the fiber, only to learn that it wasn't available where I live because I am so far off of the road where the fiber originates. It took about four attempts, with someone coming out to inspect the job, to get it done. Finally, one fellow who was both a forman and an installer told me that they could hook me up on one of the poles where the fiber was terminated. They brought the fiber over 500 feet up my private road in a direct burial cable to the pole where my electrical service goes underground. They then used an empty conduit that had been installed 20 years ago when we transitioned from overhead to underground service. Now, the conduit that had the copper telephone wire has been abandoned. We only use fiber for our telephone service, and we use Spectrum cable for our television service. If the cable goes out, sometimes the fiber does too. Both are dependent on a constant supply of electricity to function properly. When the power goes out, we have a 18 KW diesel generator to keep the lights on.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I have a call out, but as others have suggested, getting past the flying monkeys who answer the phones to sell you cable is challenging.

I looked closer at the lines down our street. I'm nearly certain it's all giant coax with about a half dozen amplifiers over our mile long street. It does look like there are a couple of drops where they may have taken RG11 off the pole and underground to the home. Our old farm house near the front of the property actually has a pole mounted transformer in our back yard, with a sizeable cable from the street to that pole, then what I assume is some sort of filter/drop that switches to RG6 I think to the eave below the utility service mast.

The second photo is across the street, what I believe to be an amplifier. All the phone lines are buried, all the cable (except per house/drop) is overhead.

I wonder if it would provide reasonable service if the signal and that cable could traverse underground back to at least a handhole next to my H post. From what I've gathered reading, I think the drop (in photo) filters out the 60 Hz 'power' on the line, perhaps in the range of 50-60 volts.

in the first pic, that box next to the transformer is nothing more than an end of line tap. it is not an amplifier or filter. Hardline coax runs to it, then the RG6 connects to one of the ports.

second pic is indeed an amplifier...

I dont see any fiber but your pics are zoomed in pretty far so i would need to see an overall pic of what else is on the pole.

Either way, even RG11 is not large enough for an 800' run. RG11 starts having signal issues past 250-300'.... you will need fiber or large hardline coax ran on your property which wont be cheap

 

[traumadoc2b]

I see no fiber on the poles on my 1 mile long county road, no nodes or power supplies. There are other houses on the road with cable, some 500-600' from the road. I'm certainly set back the farthest.

Will update when I hear back from engineering. Last I knew according to my records, Comcast farmed this out to Troyer Group in Mishawaka, IN.

 

[AP514]

If you can go with Any Other Provider do it....Comcast is over priced and the Customer Service is in INDIA. I was a customer for years then the whole neighborhood went out. It took me 3 days going thru the Phone Bots System to get someone out. The guy then said it was out in the neighborhood and it was not his job to find it. He gave me a number..... that took me back into the BOT System. I went with EZEE FIBER and they had run the fiber hooked me up in 2days. ($69 1 GIG Down and Up).

Comcast can go get F#^&@D ! !

 

[wyliesdiesels]

If you can go with Any Other Provider do it....Comcast is over priced and the Customer Service is in INDIA. I was a customer for years then the whole neighborhood went out. It took me 3 days going thru the Phone Bots System to get someone out. The guy then said it was out in the neighborhood and it was not his job to find it. He gave me a number..... that took me back into the BOT System. I went with EZEE FIBER and they had run the fiber hooked me up in 2days. ($69 1 GIG Down and Up).

Comcast can go get F#^&@D ! !

I have very few issues with Comcast and been with them for years. If i have an outage or problem i start a chat and can get things resolved really quick. NEVER call them.... youll end up like you did.

BTW based on the pics the OP sent, there is no other carrier on the pole there...

 

[traumadoc2b]

Only dead ends so far. Number for engineer I had is disconnected. Engineering firm no longer has contract with Xfinity. Comcast 800 number - they told me to go to store. Physical store were A holes, set me up, told me I'd get call the next day about it - it was an automated call simply to say service is unavailable.

Now my thought is you extend connection from our old farm house on the road back to the new house, again about 1000'. I figure a robust Unifi router with fiber optic cable between the buildings will hopefully provide a durable solution.

Given this new plan, any advice? I've never worked with fiber optics before.

 

[Codyboy]

Only dead ends so far. Number for engineer I had is disconnected. Engineering firm no longer has contract with Xfinity. Comcast 800 number - they told me to go to store. Physical store were A holes, set me up, told me I'd get call the next day about it - it was an automated call simply to say service is unavailable.

Now my thought is you extend connection from our old farm house on the road back to the new house, again about 1000'. I figure a robust Unifi router with fiber optic cable between the buildings will hopefully provide a durable solution.

Given this new plan, any advice? I've never worked with fiber optics before.

I tried rereading from the beginning.
Do you have existing service established already or is this a brand new service?
Either way just call and tell them you want to relocate the service entrance or you need new service.
They'll send an installer out , he'll evaluate it and if it needs construction he should let you know.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Only dead ends so far. Number for engineer I had is disconnected. Engineering firm no longer has contract with Xfinity. Comcast 800 number - they told me to go to store. Physical store were A holes, set me up, told me I'd get call the next day about it - it was an automated call simply to say service is unavailable.

Now my thought is you extend connection from our old farm house on the road back to the new house, again about 1000'. I figure a robust Unifi router with fiber optic cable between the buildings will hopefully provide a durable solution.

Given this new plan, any advice? I've never worked with fiber optics before.

All of that is fine and dandy but where are you putting the cable equipment?

 

[traumadoc2b]

All of that is fine and dandy but where are you putting the cable equipment?

If I ran fiber optic cable to connect the two houses, it would be from the old house near the road with existing service to the new house still about 1000' away. The cable modem and my UniFi router would remain inside the existing old house. I suppose I would need an additional router to receive (via fiber optic) and distribute the LAN within the new home. That's obviously lacking a lot of details because I don't know what I don't know.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

If I ran fiber optic cable to connect the two houses, it would be from the old house near the road with existing service to the new house still about 1000' away. The cable modem and my UniFi router would remain inside the existing old house. I suppose I would need an additional router to receive (via fiber optic) and distribute the LAN within the new home. That's obviously lacking a lot of details because I don't know what I don't know.

no you dont need an addl router, you need a switch capable of connecting to fiber.

you would not be able to get CATV service with this setup so just keep that in mind

 

[walta]

If I ran fiber optic cable to connect the two houses, it would be from the old house near the road with existing service to the new house still about 1000' away. The cable modem and my UniFi router would remain inside the existing old house. I suppose I would need an additional router to receive (via fiber optic) and distribute the LAN within the new home. That's obviously lacking a lot of details because I don't know what I don't know.

You may find this video interesting. Used cheap water pipe to run over a 1000 feet with fiber and 48 volts DC to power his gate and camera.

Walta

 

[BurtEggley]

330' max ethernet and it will be crappy at that distance. Used to run into it all the time in the high rise I worked in. With that much distance you will end up putting in power stations along the way to amplify the signal. RG6 will make it that far if it is a good quality and approved by the provider. Low loss cable is about $1 a foot, or at least it used to be. Some providers will require the heavier RG11 and they will limit the distance to 250'. I'd ask them first. You may be a candidate for starlink. We have a couple users who remote work using starlink and it has been working fine for them. In this household we only use Internet, and we just stream whatever we want to watch. I do have a tv antenna and a FM antenna with preamps, so we can watch local news, and an occasional program we can't get over the Internet. The tv antenna has an incredible clean high def picture compared to the Internet so some times we prefer that for certain programs.