Low Voltage / High Voltage

[Teken]

This is going to sound off the wall and goofy at the same time, please bare with me as I try to explain . . .

I have automated 90% of the upstairs of my mid sized bungalow with a specific brand of home automation / controller system. Which works exceptionally well and meets all of my current needs.

Having said that . . .

There is a new HA (home automation) system which has been designed to work with my current alarm panel offering true integrated alarm, security, and HA capabilities.

The problem here is that this new HA system uses low voltage wiring to control all of the lighting systems.

The question I would like to pose is this . . . To ensure, and to future proof my large investment. I would install all of the standard 120 volt lighting wiring in all of the same places the low voltage would be.

This is the crazy part, humor me . . .

All of the 120 lines would be home run to their respective locations, capped off, and simply tied back. The 120 lines would be on one side of the 2x4 stud walls.

On the opposite side I would run all of my low voltage wiring ready to be used if and when the inspection was passed.

Please keep in mind the intent is to have all of the 120 lines in place and run like any home reno. The only difference is that none of the lines would be connected to the service main panel. Just run to the panel, marked, and then zipped tied to the ceiling for that just in case.

Can this be done, is it a problem, would a inspector give me grief on this??

 

[mrb]

i dont know about canada, but here in the usa you couldnt just leave the line voltage wire in the wall (even if not connected at the supply end) the cable has to be landed in something (panel at supply side, outlet box at load side)

 

[Teken]

i dont know about canada, but here in the usa you couldnt just leave the line voltage wire in the wall (even if not connected at the supply end) the cable has to be landed in something (panel at supply side, outlet box at load side)

Yup, I pretty much got kicked in the jaw when I asked the inspector . . .

 

[justsam]

This is going to sound off the wall and goofy at the same time, please bare with me as I try to explain . . .

I have automated 90% of the upstairs of my mid sized bungalow with a specific brand of home automation / controller system. Which works exceptionally well and meets all of my current needs.

Having said that . . .

There is a new HA (home automation) system which has been designed to work with my current alarm panel offering true integrated alarm, security, and HA capabilities.

The problem here is that this new HA system uses low voltage wiring to control all of the lighting systems.

The question I would like to pose is this . . . To ensure, and to future proof my large investment. I would install all of the standard 120 volt lighting wiring in all of the same places the low voltage would be.

This is the crazy part, humor me . . .

All of the 120 lines would be home run to their respective locations, capped off, and simply tied back. The 120 lines would be on one side of the 2x4 stud walls.

On the opposite side I would run all of my low voltage wiring ready to be used if and when the inspection was passed.

Please keep in mind the intent is to have all of the 120 lines in place and run like any home reno. The only difference is that none of the lines would be connected to the service main panel. Just run to the panel, marked, and then zipped tied to the ceiling for that just in case.

Can this be done, is it a problem, would a inspector give me grief on this??

First off, an inspector will give you grief on anything that is not properly terminated, and proper at times can be in the eyes of the inspector. You may want to just install cheap switches and outlets in order to meet that hurdle.

More importantly, why exactly are you doing this? Are you talking of home running the outlets, and if so, how many are we talking about? Can this be done, of course, but it may take a lot of breaker positions. Home running the light switches just doesn't make sense so I assume you mean only outlets.

I understand your desire to future proof, and now is the time, however today's world in smart homes is one of addressable switches, and addressable outlets with communication via Power Line Carrier, RF, or bussed RS-485. IP is around the corner.

Most smart switches require the presence of a neutral (white) wire in the box, so at a minimum I would make sure that is the case, and there are no switch leg only boxes that have no neutral in them.

It sounds like a fun project and I certainly do not want to dampen your efforts, but would like to know more of what you are wanting to do, as well as what hardware. Low voltage switch control sounds like HAI ALC, which is very robust and feature rich, but does require the low voltage wiring, which is a buss so it does not need to be home run either. Each switch is addressable. I do not know your codes in regards to having low and high voltage in the same box.

Are you using something like an OmniPro controller, or one of the HAI private branded products?

 

[Teken]

The new system does indeed run on the RS-485 encrypted bus system. They also are addressable and can be wired in a daisy chain, or star configuration with out home running it to a central point.

Currently my HA system does employ a neutral to supply the power to the devices. No problems at all and works fantastic and meets all of my current needs.

The reason and idea of going with the new system is that it is made by the same alarm company as my primary security system.

Some of the unique features I would like very much to have 100% integration and be able use just one remote system to access all of the security and features in my home.

Right now the HA, Security, and Power systems are all separate systems. All of them allow remote access either via land line, sms, e-mail, web, secure terminal software, and tablet support.

Would like to have the entire system integrated as one as it will allow me to have one single point of access.

The big picture is that this new system has just gotten to market and unlike UBP, Z Wave, X-10, Insteon, etc. I don't want to be holding the bag if this product flops and does not sell well, even if it works great.

Markets dictate the life cycle of any product . . . Unfortunately for me the reality is based on inside information this HA system has not sold very well in North America as of yet given the price point for the devices etc.

The only alternative I can think of is to deploy two sets of lights / switches in the home but strategically place and install those low voltage systems where I need them and still have the 120 volt *A* typical HA neutral systems next to them and be compliant with local building codes . . .

I know the codes are there for a reason to protect people and property. But, I wish sometimes there would be exceptions or work around to meet the goals.

 

[dwilliams35]

If you really wanna get nutty about it, you could just run conduit everywhere with no wire in it. Back when I was wiring houses, I put quite a bit of conduit it just to be able to access areas for future expansion: no problem from the inspectors over it..

 

[Teken]

If you really wanna get nutty about it, you could just run conduit everywhere with no wire in it. Back when I was wiring houses, I put quite a bit of conduit it just to be able to access areas for future expansion: no problem from the inspectors over it..

I am seriously considering doing this actually. That was the only other remedy I could come up with to be honest.

I do appreciate you taking the time to chime in and affirm one of my other solutions though.

Perhaps, I can draw it all out first and see how this will be accomplished and at what dollar cost to do it.

Monies tight right now so I might have to put this all on the back burner and add it to the bucket list of things to do.

 

[ddawg16]

Last time I talked to my inspector when he was approving my garage wiring, he said he could care less about low voltage wires....like spinkler lines, coax, Ethernet, etc.

 

[Teken]

Last time I talked to my inspector when he was approving my garage wiring, he said he could care less about low voltage wires....like spinkler lines, coax, Ethernet, etc.

This will be for the basement reno for the future. I believe the best compromise will be to run strategic switches and outlets in key area's where *I think* is the best place(s).

Then, have the secondary lighting on hand either for back up, or mood lighting etc.

No real hurry right now as this is just a future endeavor I want to do. Assuming nothing changes with the technology being offered.