lowes not selling the good tools!!!

[cburnscrx]

Heres the thing...I was in Lowes the other day, and I watched some poor schlep looking at arc joint pliers. He had the Channellocks in his hand, and wandered over to the Kobalt section...looked at those for a minute or two and then...set down his Channellocks and picked up the Kobalts. But wait, we're not done yet...then as he was leaving, he noticed the Task Force on a box on the floor (my store still has some) and picked those up and stared at them for awhile. Down went the Kobalts. In the end he bought the cheapest tool he thought would do the job. I don't think he thought about COO or anythign along those lines, just will this work and how much does it cost. THAT is the target audience for Lowes, not Knipex. Additionally, how many people stroll into Lowes even have a clue about the differences between the two or three brand choices. Pretty packages, sets, and fancy catch phrases rule the day.

Does it **** for me? Yup! I recently bought a set of Channellocks from Lowes, and the first individual who tried to help me all but put the Kobalt set in my hands when I asked for the Channellock set I found online but couldn't locate in the store.

http://www.lowes.com/pd_39442-922-G...arch=channellock+set&productId=3534024&rpp=32

He kindly explained to me that the Kobalt set was cheaper and did I know it had a lifetime warranty? He asked me if I had tried them, and I said yes, but I was looking for something a little better this time. Here's what he tried to sell me (I already own them btw) but they were $9.99 when he was showing them to me.

http://www.lowes.com/pd_464646-1687...&currentURL=?Ntt=kobalt+pliers+set&facetInfo=

 

[atwageman]

Those of us that seek out quality USA and European tools are becoming a niche market more and more everyday.

 

[mech-tech]

Yeah it's sad, ya go in asking for a certain tool and they give you that confused look and show you something completely different. For me the two closest home improvement stores are lowes and another large lumber yard style of home improvement store with multiple locations in the state. They only sell ACE brand hand tools that are all china made, and this place is geared towards pro contractors. One by one all the mom and pop hardware stores are closing, even the welding supply shop in town closed down...and they were the only one!!!!!!!!

 

[Mike in Ohio]

Sigh, I have a bad feeling you are spot on with that. What is the name of their off shore line? I was in there a few weeks ago and can't remember. Green something?



I've only heard of such place. All that have seen this place in person typically have grey hair, and say "back in the day" with a war story to follow.

Hey now my hair is not gray!!! The little bit I have left is most definitely not gray. Anyhow back in the day there was this magical place...

My mentor and I have a theory that Home Depot and Lowe's no longer aim to serve tradespeople and contractors. Their real target market is the DIY dilettante; people who think they can pull off big projects just by reading a few e-how guides online.

Thankfully, our area still has several independent outlets for tradespeople that sell tools that are up to our standards, but it is frustrating that a huge retailer like Lowe's has consumer grade products at professional prices. When I first noticed my local stores were unloading their line of ChannelLock and Knipex tools, I treated myself to one of everything.

I also find it frustrating that when I do go to a Lowe's and ask for assistance, the salespeople often are unfamiliar or unaware of a product or its intended use. I usually pull another shopper in the same isle and ask for help.

Around here there are now very few places left for the pro to go to. We have Really only 2 good lumber yards left, and they don't carry much in the way of tools. I think the real goal was run out most of the real competition then start cheapening their products after there are not many options left.

 

[Brownsfan]

What really annoys me about this Southwire switch is the prices are in line wit. The USA and German tools they replaced. They are more expensive than the Klein stuff at HomeDepot. Do they think the average consumer will pay that for any tool. Do they think a pro electrician is going to pony up Klein money for that stuff? I really don't think so. My buddy is a journeyman electrician and the Southwire stuff to him and his co workers are a joke. These guys are smart enough to know that these are pretty much Chinese Klein knock offs. It's like Southwire bought all the tools in Kleins line up took them to china and said copy these. Copy everything hand grips included.

 

[mrjaw14]

What really annoys me about this Southwire switch is the prices are in line wit. The USA and German tools they replaced. They are more expensive than the Klein stuff at HomeDepot. Do they think the average consumer will pay that for any tool. Do they think a pro electrician is going to pony up Klein money for that stuff? I really don't think so. My buddy is a journeyman electrician and the Southwire stuff to him and his co workers are a joke. These guys are smart enough to know that these are pretty much Chinese Klein knock offs. It's like Southwire bought all the tools in Kleins line up took them to china and said copy these. Copy everything hand grips included.

If it costs a lot it must be high quality!

 

[chrisa7164]

I have heard about a store like that. A guy could go in a purchase some nice tools, yard equipment, even a few guns, and a few departments over his wife could pick out some stuff she liked. I think at one point in time they called themselves something like "SEARS"

If only Bass Pro Shops would carry tools.

 

[MikeF2316]

See, people keep saying this...but my Lowe's still stocks a wide selection of Channellock and Knipex in the tool section. Southwire is cramped in a tiny 4 foot or so section in the electrical aisle.

I asked if they were ever going to clearance off the Knipex and Channellock like other locations, but was told that they have high sales on the premium tools due to the large factories in the area...so they're going to keep the lines for the foreseeable future.

Supply and demand.

I was in my local (Canadian) Lowes yesterday. The electrical aisle still has Knipex and Ideal.

 

[Virgil Cain]

Everything sold at Malls is high margin items. Heck the Mall takes 6 or 7% off the top. A name brand tool store would never survive at the Mall.

Not to mention that malls have been dying for the last couple of decades. If I wanted to open a quality tool store, it wouldn't be in a mall.

BTW, there are still stores that sell quality tools. You'll find them in the industrial section of your town and they'll be selling to the trades. And their stuff won't be cheap. But there certainly are places to get high quality tools, you just won't be able to buy groceries, cloths, or lawn furniture there.

 

[zkling]

Hey now my hair is not gray!!! The little bit I have left is most definitely not gray. Anyhow back in the day there was this magical place...

Actually I know a Mike in Canton. Do you recognize my user name by chance?

If only Bass Pro Shops would carry tools.

I go there quite often just to look around. I think they do carry some misc outdoor tools. It is a neat place, but I think their prices are a bit high and some of the stuff is of questionable quality. Still a cool place to kill some time in.

 

[jeffmoss26]

Lowes has not had Klein for years. They went exclusive with HD so there were some deals to be had at Sears etc. They switched to Ideal and Greenlee which both had some decent items. Now we have Southwire garbage. At least they still have Fluke in the datacom aisle.

I get my Klein stuff online or through various electrical distributors.

 

[ganymede]

My mentor and I have a theory that Home Depot and Lowe's no longer aim to serve tradespeople and contractors. Their real target market is the DIY dilettante; people who think they can pull off big projects just by reading a few e-how guides online.

Thankfully, our area still has several independent outlets for tradespeople that sell tools that are up to our standards...

When I walk by a job site (lots of em in a city) I always look around at what people are using. I see plenty of Ryobi, Husky, Stanley and Black n Decker.

 

[NWphotog]

If only Bass Pro Shops would carry tools.

I would bet most items sold in BPS are imported from China.

 

[ganymede]

I would bet most items sold in BPS are imported from China.

I wanted to start bassin again this summer. Went to a mom n pop tackle store and Dicks Sporting Goods and couldn't find a U.S. made baitcasting reel.
Maybe next season.

 

[GreenNV]

One of the very few benefits that I have ever received as a Vietnam era veteran has been the 10% discount at Lowes. But 10% of zero is zero, so as quality is reduced, the discount has less value.

Back in the day, I could buy quality tools at many locations. I'll save the war stories for another thread.

 

[basspro]

Bass Pro Shops, thats pretty funny. At least they carry Japanese Shimano and American St. Croix and G. Loomis. All my bass rods are American made, but then again, Im like that with most things. Im not the biggest fan of the Kobalt line based off what I have seen, and I have learned early on as a professional not to buy knock off electrical tools, you will be buying them again.

 

[honcho]

If only Bass Pro Shops would carry tools.

Heck, Bass Pro Shops and it's ilk (Cabelas, Gander Mountain) are so full of Chinese made stuff it makes me sick. In the Sporting Goods world, other than guns & ammunition, it seems like virtually everything is Chinese made. Yes, there are some very good USA made products, but they're rare and getting rarer.

What galls me is products with USA sounding, good 'ol boy type names and then you look on the box and it's made in China.

Back to Lowes and Home Depot tools: most people want cheap and convenient. The Southwire **** at Lowes may not be cheap, but it's convenient and lots of people don't know any better.

 

[nanofrog]

Lowes has not had Klein for years. They went exclusive with HD so there were some deals to be had at Sears etc. They switched to Ideal and Greenlee which both had some decent items. Now we have Southwire garbage. At least they still have Fluke in the datacom aisle.

Lowes where I am doesn't even carry Fluke.

HD carries some Fluke, all Chinese last I checked. Only place I can get US made Fluke locally is Grainger, and they don't stock the full line (odds & ends, otherwise it has to be ordered).

So I tend to purchase online instead. Get what I want, and there are a few places that ground gets here next day, such as Allied Electronics.

 

[CWP1616L]

Harbor Freight still has the better prices. I'm pretty sure the Pittsburgh Pro sockets from Taiwan are made by the same manufacturer that makes Kobalt -- just different markings.

 

[nicksnothereman]

Think that's bad, walk into a Target. All they got are a few home repair kits (Chinese made -- hammer, pliers, adjustable wrench, level, measuring tape) and a few loose Chinese tools like screw drivers.

I think it's time for a chain of tool stores to open up in malls and strip malls. They can sell the good USA made stuff. I actually thought of this the other day while sitting on a bench inside the mall drinking a coffee while the wife was shopping for baby clothes for an upcoming baby shower. I was bored out of my skin.

That durabuilt stuff is real saucy! Trust me, I've got some of them. Real saucy!

I think the point is that people who would be shopping at walmart or target probably aren't going to use those tools a whole lot so they're probably not going to be willing to pay a whole lot either. Hell, I do and I still won't. It's not that I'm averse to usa made tools (in fact, I own a decent amount of us made craftsman) it's just that the price doesn't justify purchase for me. If I have to choose between crappy tools and excellent parts or excellent tools and crappy parts I'll choose excellent parts every time.

If they cut the price of some of these brands 50% and made the warranty something like 5 years I'd be all over them to tell you the truth. It's almost like the markup is (attempting to) covering other people's tool use and abuse for a "lifetime" and I'm not into doing that.

 

[nicksnothereman]

Lowes where I am doesn't even carry Fluke.

HD carries some Fluke, all Chinese last I checked. Only place I can get US made Fluke locally is Grainger, and they don't stock the full line (odds & ends, otherwise it has to be ordered).

So I tend to purchase online instead. Get what I want, and there are a few places that ground gets here next day, such as Allied Electronics.

I think sears has some. I remember seeing a crazily priced padded bag of theirs for like 30-40 bucks. I said to myself: "Yeah I'm not paying that for some crappy zipper bag". For 40 bucks better be made in the US by unionized employees.

"Made in the USA and imported" (I don't even know what that means...)

 

[928'er]

I've been told (by Lowes employees) that the rational for shifting manufacturing to china was that the USA and German made tools were just too expensive for the American consumer.

So why do they think that the American consumer is going to buy Southwire chinese made **** at the same (or higher) prices than the USA or German tools they've copied?

Kinda gives lie to their arguments.

 

[nanofrog]

I think sears has some. I remember seeing a crazily priced padded bag of theirs for like 30-40 bucks. I said to myself: "Yeah I'm not paying that for some crappy zipper bag". For 40 bucks better be made in the US by unionized employees.

"Made in the USA and imported" (I don't even know what that means...)

Fluke isn't exactly known as a budget line though.

As per the COO statement on the package, . :

I've been told (by Lowes employees) that the rational for shifting manufacturing to china was that the USA and German made tools were just too expensive for the American consumer.

So why do they think that the American consumer is going to buy Southwire chinese made **** at the same (or higher) prices than the USA or German tools they've copied?

Kinda gives lie to their arguments.

It really amazes me the BS management tries to pass off as justification despite how obvious such truths like this are. They must truly believe everyone has the IQ of a potato.

 

[kc-steve]

Harbor Freight still has the better prices. I'm pretty sure the Pittsburgh Pro sockets from Taiwan are made by the same manufacturer that makes Kobalt -- just different markings.

That's probably true about their prices, but HF is the only place I've ever had to return tools that quit working either out of the box or shortly after. So I usually only buy things I might only use once or twice. All others I buy are better quality. That's also basic MICRO economics.

Steve

 

[CWP1616L]

That's probably true about their prices, but HF is the only place I've ever had to return tools that quit working either out of the box or shortly after. So I usually only buy things I might only use once or twice. All others I buy are better quality. That's also basic MICRO economics.

Steve

Yeah I've never broken any HF tools because I don't have very many of their tools to begin with. I'll tell you what I have:

1. Adapter set
2. Strut spring compressor
3. Fuel pressure test gauge
4. Dead blow mallet

I'm thinking about getting a 1/2 inch drive set of metric sockets because I could use some and the quality looks pretty good. I could pick up a set for $11.99 minus a 25% off coupon. That's at least half the price of Lowes Kobalt set for the exact same sockets without the blue stripe.

 

[Boiler]

I used to buy a lot of tools at lowes. Not anymore. The imported tool at Home Depot are now nicer than the lowes offerings. And they have USA made Klein USA made screwdrivers. If I need something fast I now go to Home Depot or Sears hardware.

Well now that lowes is all cheap **** HD will follow. The typical shopper at lowes will reward them for reducing prices.

 

[byoungblood]

Quite possibly. Their market will be the Pro or homeowner that needs a specific tool to get a job done and ones who are not brand/price concious. Many people equate high price with high quality. Bring in a new name at a high price and many will assume it is high quality. As for buying elsewhere there are very few other local choices. I think Lowe's will do well money wise with their strategy and HD WILL follow.

Particularly a name like Southwire, which until they pimped their name out on this brand of tools, is/was a big and well known name in electrical wiring.

But in many areas there is practically zero other options for buying other brands of tools unless you want to buy off of a truck, which is not an option (nor is the extra expense justified, particuarly for something like a set of pliers over brands like Channellock or Knipex) for an electrician, homeowner, etc.

I can almost guarantee that HF is what is driving this large shift to cheap(er) foreign tools. I stick my head in one from time to time for a very few select things, but the ones around me are always busy. Lowes, HD, Sears, etc., realize that they are losing tool business to them and while they are still offering what could be considered slightly better quality offerings, they aren't getting the foot traffic to justify the premium brands and their correspondingly slimmer profit margin. Some guys may realize that most HF stuff is utter junk and will consider brands like Husky and Kobalt, but as cheap as HF is the big box stores still have to be careful about pricing.

 

[kc-steve]

. . . I can almost guarantee that HF is what is driving this large shift to cheap(er) foreign tools. . . Some guys may realize that most HF stuff is utter junk and will consider brands like Husky and Kobalt, but as cheap as HF is the big box stores still have to be careful about pricing.

Yeah, I agree. I was standing in the checkout line at HF a few years ago and listened to a guy telling his wife/gf about his new compressor he bought. The guy didn't have a clue.

So that and other similar situations I have concluded that HF is creating a new group of tool hoarders . . . they just haven't graduated yet to know the difference between quality and price.

The proverbial "pie" is expanding!

Steve

 

[nanofrog]

I can almost guarantee that HF is what is driving this large shift to cheap(er) foreign tools.

They're just filling a market segment, which happens to be rather large.

I see the real culprit as having to buy less expensive goods due to the reduction in disposable income. Enough years of lost a job to a layoff, and the next job pays less, stagnant wages for years, or increases that don't keep up with real inflation rates = all decrease a customer's buying power. The longer this goes on, the worse it gets.

So to stay within their budgets and not go short on something such as the mortgage payment, ..., things like tool budgets are much tighter. It's no wonder buyers opt for cheap solutions.

Had this conversation with friends and family, just the other day with a cousin. They think I'm nutz for what I spend on tools. Of course they have no issues asking to borrow them.

 

[CWP1616L]

They're just filling a market segment, which happens to be rather large.

I see the real culprit as having to buy less expensive goods due to the reduction in disposable income. Enough years of lost a job to a layoff, and the next job pays less, stagnant wages for years, or increases that don't keep up with real inflation rates = all decrease a customer's buying power. The longer this goes on, the worse it gets.

So to stay within their budgets and not go short on something such as the mortgage payment, ..., things like tool budgets are much tighter. It's no wonder buyers opt for cheap solutions.

Had this conversation with friends and family, just the other day with a cousin. They think I'm nutz for what I spend on tools. Of course they have no issues asking to borrow them.

What really gets me is when a guy has plenty of money and goes to HF or Lowes anyway; that really frosts me.

 

[MackMan]

I hate the Yellow Clearance Look-a-Like Tags. Makes you think you're about to get a deal when its just really a "New Lower Price" tag.

Wal-Mart almost got me a few days ago with this. They had some Channel-Loks in the clearance section. I was all excited... until I saw the price tag... original price $11.98... clearance price... $11.98. Ok, nevermind.

Yea maybe you'll even use a MAC truck...

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk

That's a good idea. I know that guys used to praise things by saying it was "built like a MAC truck."

Not to be a jerk but please remember it's MACK trucks. MAC tools, MACK trucks.

And FWIW, Mack and Volvo (sister companies) are the only trucks that are assembled only in the USA for the North American markets. All the other truck brands have started shifting production to Mexico.

http://www.macktrucks.com/

Back on topic, I'll have to check Lowes, they definitely still had Channel-Lok last time I was in there.. never knew they had Knipex.

 

[wmartin]

I don't go to Borgs for much of anything, but I'll have to check one out and see if they are starting to carry more **** in the way of tools.

Maybe there's just a shift going on in spending patterns. Poor people go to retail stores, those with some money buy online. It would be interesting to see what the split on Amazon is on the better US-made tool brands vs. the dreck.

 

[nanofrog]

What really gets me is when a guy has plenty of money and goes to HF or Lowes anyway; that really frosts me.

For a one time/extremely infrequent use item, it can make sense.

Otherwise the old saying, "fools and their money are easily parted" comes to mind, and for some reason, I don't have a problem with that.

 

[Hootbro]

I was in my local (Canadian) Lowes yesterday. The electrical aisle still has Knipex and Ideal.

Whether it is Lowes, Home Depot, Wal-Mart or Sears, what they stock in Canada, can be totally different than what they do in the USA. Names maybe the same, but their marketing strategies are unique to each country it seems.

 

[Revere Cycles]

When I walk by a job site (lots of em in a city) I always look around at what people are using. I see plenty of Ryobi, Husky, Stanley and Black n Decker.

That is also true; I've seen it vary from place to place. I've worked in several industries and cities. When I was doing real estate development in NYC, our contractors shopped at Home Depot exclusively, lots of DeWalt, Hilti, and RIDGID. When I was a woodworker, we had a lot of Festool, Grizzly, Fein, and Hitachi.

My mentor had a lot of US made Milwaukee, Makita, Metabo, and Bosch tools.

Now I am a project manager at an architectural and interior design firm. We work with lots of tradespeople and specialists on ultra high end homes and hotels. I've seen just about everything on the job site. I often ask the guys how they like a particular tool and they'll give me varied responses. For instance, they'll buy a lot of HF angle grinders if they need a big crew working all at once. Drills, saws, etc, stuff that's getting used all day by only one or two guys, that stuff is generally the premium kit. Some guys have strong preferences, others don't.

However, I am no stranger to the fact that it is not about the tool, it is about how you use it. Personally, I get great satisfaction out of using something I know won't quit on me in the middle of a job. I've had enough experiences with low quality tools to appreciate one that performs well.

 

[rednotch]

i also heard they wont sell klien either due to home depot selling exclusive klein.

its retail.... they all claim price matching these days but don't carry the same brands or if they do the part number is slightly different so its not an exact same model.... ie channellock Depot carried the 317 pliers vs lowes used to carry the 318's ect.

 

[Test Tech]

As one of you guys already said it is basic economics, but it is also understanding the customer. the average homeowner/DIY wannabe is not willing to pay for good tools and would really recognize the difference anyway. (this is an unfortunate reality of the 21st century) This being the case the stores have found that they can sell **** tools, for the same price and get away with it.

The same principals are widely applied to most products, when the cutomer does not understand the product the stores can do as they please. In turn quality manufacturers get squeezed out of the market because of their pricing, eventually the only products on the market are the cheapest **** that can be made.

Welcome to the future

 

[scaron]

yeah, such is the way of things, that's why i'm working hard to stock my tool room with good high quality US-and-euro-made stuff right now, while you can still get it...

 

[Nick Danger]

Not to be a jerk but please remember it's MACK trucks. MAC tools, MACK trucks.

And FWIW, Mack and Volvo (sister companies) are the only trucks that are assembled only in the USA for the North American markets. All the other truck brands have started shifting production to Mexico.

http://www.macktrucks.com/

You mean to tell me that MAC tool trucks don't have a six inch chrome bulldog on the hood?

Seriously, I did not know that Mack was related to Volvo. I also did not know (until I looked it up just a minute ago) that Volvo cars was sold by Ford to a Chinese company. Globalization.

What really annoys me about this Southwire switch is the prices are in line wit. The USA and German tools they replaced. They are more expensive than the Klein stuff at HomeDepot. Do they think the average consumer will pay that for any tool. Do they think a pro electrician is going to pony up Klein money for that stuff? I really don't think so. My buddy is a journeyman electrician and the Southwire stuff to him and his co workers are a joke. These guys are smart enough to know that these are pretty much Chinese Klein knock offs. It's like Southwire bought all the tools in Kleins line up took them to china and said copy these. Copy everything hand grips included.

If Southwire tools really are lower quality but cost the same as pro tools, I wonder if Lowes will start having a different 50% off sale every month. Customers will be happy to buy premium-priced tools for the price of homeowner-grade tools. Lowes will sell most of the tools during the sales, at an acceptable profit margin, and occasionally sell tools at full markup.

 

[CaptainMarvel]

Harbor Freight still has the better prices. I'm pretty sure the Pittsburgh Pro sockets from Taiwan are made by the same manufacturer that makes Kobalt -- just different markings.

Pity Lowes doesn't accept HF discount coupons like many Home Depots seem to (hit or miss, I know).