Lowe’s out of touch

[Fialaja]

Was in Lowe’s the other day and I saw they had the new craftsman tools among which were 3/4 drive stuff, already on clearance for a significant amount off.
Did anyone really think that the average Lowe’s customer is working on anything that requires that drive size? I wonder how the new craftsman tools are selling compared to sears craftsman. I also wonder if Sears has seen and tracked the sales of craftsman tools since the outsourcing...I think anyone waiting for SBD to produce USA made craftsman tools is infor a disappointment.the quality just will never be there compared to the days of old. Remember, it has to meet a price point, not catering to tool snobs like us who care about long term durability and country of origin.

 

[JulianMorrow]

I love Craftsman, used them for many years. But I think the brand has been damaged by (1) Outsourcing and (2) Sears bankruptcy. The brand has to position itself on that tricky middle ground: below professional quality but above budget tools. The quality tool for DIY weekenders. Some of that is marketing, but the Craftsman U.S.A. tools were remarkably reliable for DIY weekenders for generations. That brand means something.

I get the feeling that the new owner, Stanley B&D either (1) doesn't know what they're doing or (2) don't care. They just want to milk this cash cow to the bitter end.

 

[Davefr]

And meanwhile HF is exploiting the CM "cluster f_ck" by offering higher quality at similar price points and similar quality at lower price points.

CM is in no mans land.

 

[finn]

I keep reading these threads threads claiming that the average diy homeowner needs “ high quality “ tools, beyond what Craftsman offers today, but I just don’t see it.

What, exactly are the diy projects that require anything buy a box store, or Craftsman equivalent tools? Changing the oil or blade on the lawnmower? Replumbing the bathroom? Fixing the chainsaw or weed eater? Fixing the snow blower? Assembling the new BBQ or rewiring the electrical outlets?

Sorry, but I just don’t see the issue here.

 

[Sevenhills1952]

I keep reading these threads threads claiming that the average diy homeowner needs “ high quality “ tools, beyond what Craftsman offers today, but I just don’t see it.

What, exactly are the diy projects that require anything buy a box store, or Craftsman equivalent tools? Changing the oil or blade on the lawnmower? Replumbing the bathroom? Fixing the chainsaw or weed eater? Fixing the snow blower? Assembling the new BBQ or rewiring the electrical outlets?

Sorry, but I just don’t see the issue here.

Amen!


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[Fishy66]

I did not look to closely but I remember the power tools and boxes sporting “Made in USA...” labeling all over them. I thought maybe they were trying to rebuild the brand so they could ride it into the dirt again.

 

[jdlong]

Nothing is stopping SBD from bringing back the Cmann quality we dearly remember. We can count on the prices to double if and when they do. It will take a long time for the tools to prove themselves and get tool buyer confidence back. As far as Lowes goes, not many are going to pay 80 bucks for a strip of sockets to do general household tasks.

 

[BroncoAZ]

I see homeowners buying upper end tools as a want vs need thing. The China import tools are usually adequate and can serve most people just fine, and the quality on those cheap tools is higher than ever before. I like having quality stuff and take pride in ownership. Sure, I could have continued using my 25 year old Craftsman RP wrenches that haven’t failed me often, but I wanted nicer wrenches so I recently upgraded to Wrightgrips. I do have plenty of harbor freight grade things like a 3/4” socket set, hydraulic press, floor jacks, and some specialty auto tools that I use once in a blue moon; the cost to upgrade those to the good stuff isn’t worth it to me.

Being a member of this forum for the past 8 months has certainly helped me lighten my wallet, but I feel well equipped to take on my future projects. I originally joined the forum to research truck toolboxes vs Tool Vault, I ended up staying and getting involved. Some of the things I probably wouldn’t have purchased without this forum: Wilton USA vise, Wera screwdrivers, Trusty Cook hammers, some Carlyle tools, anything Stahwille or Hazet, Knipex, etc. Between new toolboxes, upgrading all my Milwaukee tools, all new Sunex impact sockets, a bunch of Gearwrench stuff, Wrightgrip sets, and the stuff mentioned above I probably don’t want to think about the total money spent. It’s like any other hobby though.

 

[Crazyjake8493]

Was in Lowe’s the other day and I saw they had the new craftsman tools among which were 3/4 drive stuff, already on clearance for a significant amount off.
Did anyone really think that the average Lowe’s customer is working on anything that requires that drive size?

I wonder if those may be tools that were already in production before the SBD acquisition and they're just trying to push them to stores and get rid of the inventory. I don't think anyone is going to Lowes specifically to buy a 3/4" drive socket set, at least no one that I know.

On the other hand, Lowes (and HD to a lesser extent) have always stocked items they thought would sell and end up clearancing them out, while items that people actually want and need are online only items, or sometimes not available at all.

 

[zendriver]

Nothing is stopping SBD from bringing back the Cmann quality we dearly remember.

Corporate responsibility, to attempt to bring profits back to shareholders, might be a hindrance.

Moving from shitting on Sears, to shitting on Lowes, ending at shitting on SBD.

You really had to be the Amazing Kreskin, to see this coming.

 

[nbpt100]

3/4" drive are Pro level tools. I am sure there are some odd exceptions. Unless you are rebuilding a big *** tractor.

SBD has so many tool lines they can do nothing or a lot with CMAN. They paid a pretty dollar for the brand. One thing Cman has that SBD did not have a lot of were good sized ODPE. Most of the Stanley/ Black and Decker yard tools are electric and smaller. Cman offers Lawn tractors, snow blowers, gas powered Chainsaws etc. This is were a lot of their opportunity is to grab market share. One thing SBD has been doing is research in battery technology. I would expect to see more Cman battery powered Mowers, snow blowers and chainsaws down the road. That is the future for the homeowner market. Even the commercial market will be heading there as the technolgy advances.

AS far a hand tools go who knows what they are thinking. When I read these threads I find myself getting caught up in nostalgia over Cman tools like many here do.
I suspect they will leverage the name/brand recognition as long as they can. If they don't produce a good mid grade quality product and back it up with a no BS warrantee this part of the brand will dwindle.
Part of me hopes it does not but there are options out there to fill the gap if they don't improve or maintain the brand.
I would not worry what Lowes does. If they don't manage their end of the deal well SBD will move to HomeDepot, Auto parts stores or even Best Buy. Or maybe someone serious will bring Sear back.......

 

[dogdog]

Corporate responsibility, to attempt to bring profits back to shareholders, might be a hindrance.

Moving from shitting on Sears, to shitting on Lowes, ending at shitting on SBD.

You really had to be the Amazing Kreskin, to see this coming.

People have dreams, no matter how unrealistic the dreams are, it's a dream....

 

[redidbull]

I have done a lot of car building over the years from body work to pulling engines and transmissions to lift kits and home projects. I have a mix of tools some good, some cheap. I have gotten by with the mix. I have a HF right angle drill that I have had for 10+ years and it still works fine and has been abused. I also have a 50 dollar, 1/2" chuck, Black and Decker hammer drill that I bought more than 25 years ago and it still works even after smoking it a couple times. HF impact sockets are my go to with my Ryobi cordless impact wrench. Jim

 

[nelstomlinson]

I keep reading these threads threads claiming that the average diy homeowner needs “ high quality “ tools, beyond what Craftsman offers today, but I just don’t see it.

Even tool-shaped objects made from chinesium will handle most homeowner's tasks. The fact is that we could do 80%+ of what we do with less than the best.

 

[Professional Tool User]

They aren't out of touch. Craftsman was never really a professional tool brand to begin with. The average DIYer uses their tools once or twice a month at most and just need something that will get the job done. Most don't want to pay a premium. I can see someone who needs to remove an axle nut off a car buying a 3/4 dr set, though they will probably go to Harbor Freight for it.

 

[eschoendorff]

I see homeowners buying upper end tools as a want vs need thing. The China import tools are usually adequate and can serve most people just fine, and the quality on those cheap tools is higher than ever before. I like having quality stuff and take pride in ownership. Sure, I could have continued using my 25 year old Craftsman RP wrenches that haven’t failed me often, but I wanted nicer wrenches so I recently upgraded to Wrightgrips. I do have plenty of harbor freight grade things like a 3/4” socket set, hydraulic press, floor jacks, and some specialty auto tools that I use once in a blue moon; the cost to upgrade those to the good stuff isn’t worth it to me.

Being a member of this forum for the past 8 months has certainly helped me lighten my wallet, but I feel well equipped to take on my future projects. I originally joined the forum to research truck toolboxes vs Tool Vault, I ended up staying and getting involved. Some of the things I probably wouldn’t have purchased without this forum: Wilton USA vise, Wera screwdrivers, Trusty Cook hammers, some Carlyle tools, anything Stahwille or Hazet, Knipex, etc. Between new toolboxes, upgrading all my Milwaukee tools, all new Sunex impact sockets, a bunch of Gearwrench stuff, Wrightgrip sets, and the stuff mentioned above I probably don’t want to think about the total money spent. It’s like any other hobby though.

This is a pretty cool place no doubt. I’ve learned a lot by hanging out here over the years.

 

[J.A.F.E.]

The Lowes closest to me has always stocked 3/4 Kobalt and it seems to have sold. No idea who's buying it so the size has been in stores (at least some stores) for a long time. If the Kobalt sold in that size I guess the CMan would as well.

 

[yrly]

There are multiple issues. Many Lowe’s don’t even carry much Craftsman at all (ours has hardly any). The smaller sets are often cheaper at Sears and even if you don’t have a Sears they still turn up in the google searches and have free shipping on all but the smallest of sets. Sears can use any supplier they want, Stanley meanwhile still has to pay a 3% royalty on the Craftsman they sell for the next 15 years. Someone still has to absorb the 3%. Since stuff like power equipment is mostly rebranded MTD Lowe’s either has to take a 3% hit, Stanley does, or Sears will be cheaper since MTD stuff is typically similarly priced across the board.

Homeowners don’t typically buy 3/4 inch sizes. If they do Sears would still be more associated with such a size than Lowe’s would. The homeowner 3/4 inch shopper would likely end up at Sears, Harbor Freight or Tractor Supply before they though of Lowe’s for it.

I really think Stanley botched the deal. Allowing Sears to continue to use the brand was mistake 1 and the 3% royalty is mistake 2. Even when the 3% portion expires, if any entity of Sears exists and wants they can just find lower end suppliers to keep using the name to offset the cost difference.

On a forum like here one might worry about made in USA. Most people don’t care where it’s made and/or will still see it as a cut above harbor freight but buy it where it’s cheaper.

With Sears out of bankruptcy you really think they’re not going to push their advantages in the deal? That’s like these $500 back on $500 points deals on the craftsman ultimate sets they’ve been running this past week.

Don’t forget the stuff out of those Chuck Homier travelling tool sales, Sears can brand that stuff as craftsman and water down the brand with less detriment to them than Stanley. They’d still be able to slowly phase Evolv an more and more and remove the crasftsman from it or slowly bring back companion.

I think the Sears bankruptcy should go to prove Eddie has tried to stack everything in his personal interest.

 

[jdlong]

Corporate responsibility, to attempt to bring profits back to shareholders, might be a hindrance.

Moving from shitting on Sears, to shitting on Lowes, ending at shitting on SBD.

You really had to be the Amazing Kreskin, to see this coming.

They aren't out of touch. Craftsman was never really a professional tool brand to begin with. The average DIYer uses their tools once or twice a month at most and just need something that will get the job do most don't want to pay a premium. I can see someone who needs to remove an axle nut off a car buying a 3/4 dr set, though they will probably go to Harbor Freight for it.

True. They were once mid tier quality at mid tier prices. Not so today. The mid tier quality went to **** with inflation. The tools are no more expensive today than they were 25 years ago. They hedged inflation by cutting the quality in half.

 

[zendriver]

Did anyone really think that the average Lowe’s customer is working on anything that requires that drive size?.

Not that many people need 3/4" drive tools, therefore, Lowes shouldn't carry them? They probably have a lot of different items they don't sell a lot of.

That's why it's is called a "store"

FWIW using a 3/4" breaker bar, with a step down to 1/2" - way more sturdy than a 1/2" breaker.

 

[Trock03]

I keep reading these threads threads claiming that the average diy homeowner needs “ high quality “ tools, beyond what Craftsman offers today, but I just don’t see it.

What, exactly are the diy projects that require anything buy a box store, or Craftsman equivalent tools? Changing the oil or blade on the lawnmower? Replumbing the bathroom? Fixing the chainsaw or weed eater? Fixing the snow blower? Assembling the new BBQ or rewiring the electrical outlets?

Sorry, but I just don’t see the issue here.

This exactly!! The tool snobbery on here is pretty obnoxious but it's usually entertaining. I'm prefectly happy to keep saving money by DIYing anything I can using my old substandard tools. If they break they're usually replaced with new substandard tools.

TC

 

[Andres26tnt]

Craftsman quality of old...lol, not to bash on CF but the quality has been the same excluding the early switch to China tools. Been using both USA and China CF for years now, no noticeable difference in my eyes.

Lowes caters to DIY consumers a 3/4 set is known to be for professionals, I'm not surprised it didn't sell well. What SBD should do is bring back the catalog and try to get as many USA made tools as possible. They should also make the right choices when rebranding tools, the new ratchets are trash.

 

[manwithtools]

What is CF?

 

[Andres26tnt]

What is CF?

Craftsman

 

[redidbull]

What is CF?

Craftsman. Jim

 

[manwithtools]

Okay, guess my acronym decoder is mis-calibrated. I don't see how CF is derived from Craftsman. I might buy CM, but CF is confusing to me. Can someone explain this to me please.

 

[Toothaker]

Okay, guess my acronym decoder is mis-calibrated. I don't see how CF is derived from Craftsman. I might buy CM, but CF is confusing to me. Can someone explain this to me please.

Their acronym fu is weak.

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[kb1982]

Craftsman quality of old...lol, not to bash on CF but the quality has been the same excluding the early switch to China tools. Been using both USA and China CF for years now, no noticeable difference in my eyes.



Lowes caters to DIY consumers a 3/4 set is known to be for professionals, I'm not surprised it didn't sell well. What SBD should do is bring back the catalog and try to get as many USA made tools as possible. They should also make the right choices when rebranding tools, the new ratchets are trash.

I could see where farmers would purchase a 3/4 inch set, but im sure farm and fleet or tractor supply would have that covered. Other than that, the biggest nut encountered by most would be a ball hitch nut.

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[nbpt100]

Some thoughtful and funny posts.

The 3% fee back to Sears Holding on CM sales is something I forgot. Yes, most Craftsman ODPE is made by MTD and some by Husqvarna who absorbed American Yard Products (AYP). So in theory a Troy Bilt at Lowes should have a 3% advantage over the CM. Good point. At least for the next 14 years or so. But what happens if Sears does bite the dust in the near future?

We are mostly tool snobs here. You should expect it on a board like this. I admit it. I buy better tools than I usually need. I think long term and I will have them for life, if I am lucky. I don't break many tools and how many would I break if I bought all HF or the Asian stuff branded as Cal Hawk etc.? Rounding bolt heads and stripping screws can not only be a PITA but down right expensive. How many have had a Tape measure break right when you need them? Food for thought.

 

[555]

I think it depends on the location of the store. Our local suburban Lowes does quite well with Craftsman products. The Sears Home Store which is 25 miles west and considered rural has one of the largest selection of Craftsman tools I've ever seen. The Mall store closer to the city is almost a barren wasteland. In a similar situation Tractor Supply stocks their stores based on "identity". They use Urban, Suburban and Rural to determine stockage of most items.

 

[bob15]

Funny how you guys gripe on Lowes for having 3/4" drive tools, but Sears had them for as long as I can remember. Was it OK for Sears to carry them but not Lowes?

And how is 3/4 drive professional only? Farms use 3/4 drive tools all the time, are they not allowed to buy tools and Sears or Lowes? Same goes for your "professional wrench turner," are they not allowed to shop at Sears or Lowes either? And the advise on GJ for people going into the field that might need 3/4" drive tools is not to buy truck brands due to high costs. So what option do they have? Used or HF only? Or maybe Sears/Lowes and C-man tools?

I just don't understand it................

 

[bonneyman]

I went into my local Lowes last week to waste time, and walked around the tool department. Lots of Craftsman.
Saw several Kobalt tools that looked pretty good to me. I don't know why they would think of dropping the line.
This one 18 volt flashlight with pivoting head was outstanding. Only $29.

 

[Crazyjake8493]

I keep reading these threads threads claiming that the average diy homeowner needs “ high quality “ tools, beyond what Craftsman offers today, but I just don’t see it.

What, exactly are the diy projects that require anything buy a box store, or Craftsman equivalent tools? Changing the oil or blade on the lawnmower? Replumbing the bathroom? Fixing the chainsaw or weed eater? Fixing the snow blower? Assembling the new BBQ or rewiring the electrical outlets?

Most homeowners also don't need to buy a $40k pickup truck to get groceries, but they still do!

 

[yrly]

Funny how you guys gripe on Lowes for having 3/4" drive tools, but Sears had them for as long as I can remember. Was it OK for Sears to carry them but not Lowes?

And how is 3/4 drive professional only? Farms use 3/4 drive tools all the time, are they not allowed to buy tools and Sears or Lowes? Same goes for your "professional wrench turner," are they not allowed to shop at Sears or Lowes either? And the advise on GJ for people going into the field that might need 3/4" drive tools is not to buy truck brands due to high costs. So what option do they have? Used or HF only? Or maybe Sears/Lowes and C-man tools?

I just don't understand it................

Sears was always known for having a larger tool dept. especially in hand tools. Lowe’s was more limited. If I was looking for a 3/4 inch set I’d have checked places like Tractor Supply, Harbor Freight and Sears before even looking at Lowe’s.

 

[mudflap]

Most homeowners also don't need to buy a $40k pickup truck to get groceries, but they still do!

No...thats what the Wifes $40,000 Jeep Grand Cherokee is for. The truck is for hauling golf clubs..and it's more like $50,000.

 

[yrly]

Some thoughtful and funny posts.

The 3% fee back to Sears Holding on CM sales is something I forgot. Yes, most Craftsman ODPE is made by MTD and some by Husqvarna who absorbed American Yard Products (AYP). So in theory a Troy Bilt at Lowes should have a 3% advantage over the CM. Good point. At least for the next 14 years or so. But what happens if Sears does bite the dust in the near future?

I don’t think Eddie will have any issues preventing another bankruptcy. He’s too good a financial engineer, I think he just wanted to wipe out his board who wouldn’t let the sale of Kenmore to himself go through and got the added benefit of wiping out the pension obligations and getting everything.

Sears will exist enough in some fashion enough so that Stanley is still going to be coughing up the 3%.

The 3% is trivial on a $1 tool, it’s the stuff like power equipment where it becomes a big competitive disadvantage. Sears can sell the same rebranded MTD but not pay the royalty and give you some of their fake funny money on top of it,

 

[Jtels85]

What little Craftsman that Lowe’s/Stanley has stocked at our local Lowe’s stores isn’t anything worth writing home about. Perhaps I’m just a diehard Sears/Craftsman snob... and I’m well aware Stanley/CM is still sourcing some tools from Apex, but it just does feel the same. I always enjoyed looking at and buying tools from Sears. Lowe’s on the other hand... doesn’t have the same appeal. The new Craftsman line... doesn’t have the same appeal.

It just isn’t the same Craftsman, no matter where it’s made now or will be made in the future, period. It’s just another brand bought out by a larger company who’s only intentions are to prostitute and capitalize on its name and heritage. That upsets me more than when Sears/Apex began outsourcing to China and Taiwan. And for that reason, I’m out.

 

[turnthewrench 2.0]

Lowe's,... a big company. How costly for them would be to sell Lowe's branded tools? People already love the name, just stamp it in you darn Taiwanese tools!

Edit: And don't forget to hire Kabo to make 'em for ya!

 

[pstemari]

I don’t think Eddie will have any issues preventing another bankruptcy. He’s too good a financial engineer, I think he just wanted to wipe out his board who wouldn’t let the sale of Kenmore to himself go through and got the added benefit of wiping out the pension obligations and getting everything.
...

It never ceases to amaze and disgust me how imperial CEOs can loot companies, stiff the suppliers, ignore shareholders, and leave employees, and walk away with everything.

We really need a law in this country that says if you're the CEO if a public company and it goes bankrupt, that you can never again be a CEO or director.

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[nbpt100]

I don’t think Eddie will have any issues preventing another bankruptcy. He’s too good a financial engineer, I think he just wanted to wipe out his board who wouldn’t let the sale of Kenmore to himself go through and got the added benefit of wiping out the pension obligations and getting everything.

Sears will exist enough in some fashion enough so that Stanley is still going to be coughing up the 3%.

The 3% is trivial on a $1 tool, it’s the stuff like power equipment where it becomes a big competitive disadvantage. Sears can sell the same rebranded MTD but not pay the royalty and give you some of their fake funny money on top of it,

The rumors I heard were that the Sears Hometowns will exist as they are now a separate company. There are not many of them. The closest one to me is over an hour a way. I would drive by 5 or 6 Lowes and Home Depots to get there.

They sell basically Appliances, ODPE, tools and some spare parts. I can't see the Sears stores surviving as long as Lambert is involved. I give them a year or two before he ***** the life out of them.