LS STARRETT CO (and not a vise)

[Shelbylex]

Was going through my last tool purchase and found this little marvel.
The LS STARRETT CO, ATHOL, MASS USA.

I got an Athol STARRETT VISE 614, but never saw anything else from the company (I guess I never really looked either).
...Adding my Athol STARRETT 614 vise (in front of Columbian). Athol is 50lb, 4" jaw. Will need to be cleaned and possibly restored as time goes by. Works well!

Share your tools by the manufacturer!

 

[Craftsman C-series]

I picked up these two today. I’ve always wanted these two and the guy selling these two had the mother load of machinist tools. More tools than I had money.

 

[ganymede]

This is what I could dig out quickly.
I'm a Brown & Sharpe guy but I gotta say Starretts multi anvil mic (front ) blows away what B&S came out with as a response to it.
The other mike was a rusted pos and is turning out to be one of my better tool restorations.

Edit: really dig that Starrett vise !
View media item 83227

 

[leg17]

.....I got an Athol STARRETT VISE 614, but never saw anything else from the company ...../QUOTE]

You live in Mass and you never saw anything from Starrett?

 

[woody 73]

Shelbylex instead of a show me type post how about you dig up some information about the company and share it with us.

Who was the original owner, when where was he born, date born, date died, place of burial site information, catalog information, along with other links you can dig up.

Then down the road someone can find your post and learn something new about the man and his company.

 

[davethorik]

I have a few Starrett items.

I do not like on some of their newer production tools, they are not marked with a COO. I think that is a mistake. Yeah it may have a pic of an American flag on the website next to the pn, but how hard is it to stamp just 3 little letters, USA? We've all read about the Snap-on tools losing the large USA stamp on the ratchet head, and everyone lost their minds, if I were Starrett I wouldn't attempt to emulate this.

 

[notlob]

Entire books have been written about Laroy Sunderland Starrett.

Here's one:
https://issuu.com/starrett.co.uk/docs/1216_-_the_starrett_story__lo-res_

Scans of four vintage Starrett catalogs can be found on this page (scroll down):
http://www.blackburntools.com/articles/rose-tools-catalog-archives/index.html

This early Starrett catalog sold on eBay last month for ~ $130.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/112890805517?rmvSB=true

The LS Starrett Company is still in business as one of the preeminent suppliers of machinists' tools, although their reputation has been tarnished somewhat in recent times:
http://www.starrett.com/

 

[Roberts210]

Any American company is doing well if it's reputation is only 'tarnished' lately. With China on the move and American business on the retreat many fine old U.S. Companies have been devoured lock, stock and barrel by the Chinese.

 

[Ole Slewfoot]

I have some piano wire cutting pliers, but I think photobucket ate my pics.

 

[Shelbylex]

Thank you, Notlob
Woody, you are right - I will try to post more info on manufacturers - will make it more interesting. I read some interesting articles on Starrett and the lawsuit he had ( that’s before the change of stamp on the Vise to more recent one).
Leg17, I never saw them before. Then again, I am new to tools and my line of work is far from them... Next time I am in Western MASS I need to try to stop by to see the old factory - remnants are still there from what I read. I was next to Athol couple of weeks ago, but did not have time...

 

[Toolmaker65]

Dave - I agree with you on some of their newer tools. If they are listed as Starrett Global in the catalog, they are made in China - as with anything from China the quality runs anywhere from excellent to 'I have thrown better stuff out than what this is'.

They have been around for quite a while and absorbed some of their competitors over the years. https://www.davistownmuseum.org/TDMVtoolMfg.htm

They have also bought out others and have run the production of that tool for so long that people automatically assume that Starrett developed it, the Last Word indicator being the prime example. http://www.datamp.org/patents/displayPatent.php?id=19939

Also need to throw in a little ****

They also have provided quite a few publications on the company history and on the use of machinist's tools in general. Most of these are (or were?) free from their web site.

 

[Toolmaker65]

Forgot to id the critters in the photos:

Photo 1: No. 696 Crankshaft distortion gage (background), No. 50 A Adjustable trammel points, No. 359 Vernier bevel protractor, and No. 657 Toolmaker's V block

Photo 2: No. 711-D-10 Last Word indicator (.0001 graduatios, .016 range), advertising mirror (nice for reading indicators in mill spindles), No. 711 Last Word indicator, No. 98-4 4" machinist's level, and No. 815 Toolmaker's hammer

Photo 3: No. 82 A Dial bore gage (.0001" graduations, .107" to .266" range)

Photo 4: No. 98-18 18" machinist's level, No. 199 Master precision level (15" long), and No. 98-4 4" machinist's level

Photo 5: No. 123 24" Master vernier caliper

Photo 6: Close up of 711-D-10 Last Word indicator face

 

[Private Lugnutz]

This early Starrett catalog sold on eBay last month for ~ $130.

That cover is gorgeous. A work of fine art. Thanks for posting that, notlob.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Hard to believe we didn't already have a thread dedicated to vintage L.S. Starrett.

I have some eclectic odds and ends, nothing terribly rare, although a few of the pieces are uncommon, and a few of those are NOS. L.S. Starrett is a verified and popular WWII supplier, and the overwhelming majority of WWII GMTK’s you’ll see out there, including a few of mine, have a Starrett 6” No. 4 rule, and a No. 172-A feeler gage. I'm pretty much always on the look-out for those at flea markets, and tend to pick up anything else that looks interesting.

Pic 1: Group shot.

Pic 2: My single oldest Starrett tool – a Blacksmith’s Brass Rule, No. 462, folding, with stop joint. This fancy L.S.S. marking, with the fancy model number, is the oldest Starrett marking there is. This one tends to get shown fairly often here. When I don't use my little red die, I prefer to use this rule to show the scale of other tool finds of the same vintage.

Pic 3: Also fairly old, a No. 301 Rule, 12”, with No. 1 graduations (12, 24, 48 and 10, 20, 50, and 100 on the brand side, 14, 28, 16, 32, and 64 on the flip side), with the L.S.S. marking, less fancy model number, and the calipers-and-T square logo that notlob posted above.

Pics 4 & 5: A No. C604R Rule, 12”, with No. 4R graduations (every mark is numbered) and a satin chrome (no glare) finish, in its original NOS paper sleeve.

Pic 6: A No. 161-D Toolmaker’s Parallel Clamp. I'd like to find the other sizes. (I have smaller ones, but they're Brown & Sharpe.)

The thing that looks like a scriber in the group shot is the needle and needle clasp from a No. 52 Surface Gage. It would be put on an upright on a base with a spindle to adjust the height, all missing. I didn't take a separate photo of it.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Continuing close-ups of the tools in that group shot...

Pics 1, 2, & 3: A No. 278 V-Block and Clamp. This is not as useful without its mate, but that’s the way I found it. I've been looking for another ever since.

Pics 4 & 5: Two (2) No. 186 Drill & Steel Wire Gages, 1 (1/2”) to 60 (1/16”) in 64ths (with decimal equivalents), in their original NOS paper sleeves.

Pics 6 & 7: A No. 229-B Telescoping Inside Gage in its original NOS box. If you don’t now how these work, one of the short arms is spring-loaded. When you turn the little knurled end on the long arm it sets it in place.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Last of the close-ups of the tools from that group shot...

Pics 1 & 2: A No. 40 Screw Pitch Gage in its original NOS box.

Pic 3: A No. 162 Pin Vise. If you’ve never seen one of these, they have a tiny chuck for holding scribers, very small files, and other tiny bits.

Pics 4 &5: A No. 289-A Compound Square attachment (elbow-shaped thingy with thumbscrew adjusters in between the calipers in the group shot).

Pics 6 & 7: No. 425 Pocket Slide Caliper. I use this every weekend, usually in conjunction with measuring various dimensions of vintage tools for identification purposes, especially if they're not marked with sizes.

I didn’t bother taking photos of the spring-type Outside Calipers, 6- and 8-inch models, or the near-complete Machinists’ Drive Pin and Center Punch set, which are fairly common.

I have a thread on the High Speed Indicator No. 104 (dead center in the group shot), including plenty of photos and a catalog reference, linked here.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

The aforementioned No. 172-A Thickness Gage that I forgot to include in the group shot! The leaves are not loaded this way in the case. The thinnest leave are between the thicker leaves. I have them arranged this way to show the range, .15 to 15.

Sorry for the five posts in a row!

 

[gpw_42]

They also have provided quite a few publications on the company history and on the use of machinist's tools in general. Most of these are (or were?) free from their web site.

They have several publications for free via their website (or at least they did earlier this year). I ordered 4 pubs from them, and they arrived in NC in 3-4 days.

Love finding their tools at sales - if they're in good condition, they're always quality stuff. I'm much more a collector than a user, but was preparing to use some of the vintage stuff for a class I wanted to take this summer.

Lugz, thanks for the pics! I need to post some up, as well.

 

[davethorik]

Dave - I agree with you on some of their newer tools. If they are listed as Starrett Global in the catalog, they are made in China - as with anything from China the quality runs anywhere from excellent to 'I have thrown better stuff out than what this is'.

Here is an example. I bought this rule in '06-'08, so Starrett has been doing this at least 10 years.

http://www.starrett.com/metrology/product-detail/C636ME-150

 

[Private Lugnutz]

They also have provided quite a few publications on..[ ] ...the use of machinist's tools in general. Most of these are (or were?) free from their web site.

They have several publications for free via their website (or at least they did earlier this year).

This has been a part of their business philosophy forever. Even their oldest print catalogs, dating back to the 19th century, are like tutorials, incorporating 'how to's' and 'why to's' before every section, and, in some cases, complementing some of the more sophisticated tools. One thing I appreciated early on as a collector was finding a comprehensive page on the English scale numbering system for various rules. They are not alone in that practice, and I don't know if they are even the first - but they did it, and they did it early on and well.

Love finding their tools at sales - if they're in good condition, they're always quality stuff. I'm much more a collector than a user, but was preparing to use some of the vintage stuff for a class I wanted to take this summer.

Objectively, after 1900 or thereabouts, they really had few peers. Browne & Sharpe. Some would successfully argue for Goodell-Pratt, absorbed by Millers Falls before WWII, but their production was much more diverse, which would be their undoing. Much later, Lufkin. There were other companies making machinists' tools (e.g., Union, General, etc), but they weren't considered thought leaders. While Starrett certainly expanded through their competitors' attrition over the years, especially early on, between the Athol Machine Company and L.S. Starrett, L.S. and a few of his lead engineers owned close to a hundred patents. Someone used the term "preeminent" upthread, and it's fitting.

That class sounds fun. Your Army (constant training and professional development) is showing.

Lugz, thanks for the pics! I need to post some up, as well.

Looking forward to it. I know d42jeep's WWII machinists' tool-set had a few classic Starrett pieces (calipers, dividers, etc) in it. Maybe he will chime in with some examples as well.

 

[d42jeep]

I know d42jeep's WWII machinists' tool-set had a few classic Starrett pieces (calipers, dividers, etc) in it. Maybe he will chime in with some examples as well.

Here are a few pictures of some of my Starrett tools, many from the machinists’ set. The 172A feeler is from my Motor Vehicle Mechanics Tool Set.
-Don

 

[d42jeep]

Here are a few more random Starrett tools I’ve collected. The folding yardstick is quite rare.
-Don

 

[d42jeep]

Even more Starrett pictures and a WW2 image of some of the tools from the Machinists’ set.
-Don

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I'm glad you included the Center Gage. I have a Union and General, but have yet to find a Starrett.

The one Starrett tool I really want is not in any of the WWII tool-sets: a Little Giant Jack Screw. (Actually, any brand. I need one to push out the pin frozen inside the swivel jaw on my Parker 1-1/2" jeweler's vise! )

 

[Mintgrun]

I bought a full Gerstner box from my neighbor about ten years ago and it has a lot of Starrett tools inside. This is one of the drawers.





I decided this set was too nice for the likes of me and sold it on eBay



I was impressed when someone snatched it up for the $180 BIN price. It must be the hardened steel version.

 

[ganymede]

...Objectively, after 1900 or thereabouts, they really had few peers. Browne & Sharpe. ....

I think for a lot of offerings Starrett had Brown & Sharpe beat in the small tools war. Small tools were only part of B&S line though and they probably put more into machine tools.
Fun tidbit..
After Laroy Starrett invented his combo square he began looking for a firm to manufacture them. One of the companies he approached was Brown & Sharpe who didn't think much of it and refused .
Big mistake.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I agree with you, and that is a fun tidbit, but I was trying to be a little fuzzier than good-better-best, and avoid a silly and counter-productive brand war. Not that we tend to have them down here (as opposed to "up there"), but keeping it at those two, maybe G-P, then the pack and an honorable mention for Lufkin is hard to take offense with.

 

[ganymede]

Agreed. Brand preference yes. Brand war no thanks.
Im ashamed to say I don't have any vintage Lufkin micrometers in my collection.
That'll hopefully change this flea market season though.

Edit:
View media item 83271

 

[d42jeep]

I pulled some more Starrett out of my old Kennedy machinists’ box today and was surprised that I had accumulated so much. I guess I should keep track.
-Don

 

[davethorik]

Starrett granite surface plate salesman samples. These were on the bay, I didn't buy them. They sold for around $170 with multiple bidders, and are small (maybe 2×3) in size.

 

[gpw_42]

Don, that's a NICE collection! I'm amazed how broad it is, beyond the WW2 machinist set.

Here's my accumulation, from a variety of sources. I started gathering it up just because I think it's cool. This past winter, I thought I was going to take an NRA Intro to Gunsmithing class, which was scheduled for last week....then I got a job, and that plan went out the window. But, while I was accumulating tools off eBay, a friend who's a machinist was coaching me; one of his points was that for USER tools, they can't be full of patina. So, I broke out a red pad, some oil and some elbow grease and went to work on the 203C 1" mic...you can see the results below.

I'm pretty sure that the punches with the 3 lines on either side of the size marking are newer than the ones w/o the lines. My pictures don't capture that well; if anyone is unsure let me know and I'll get out the tripod to make better pictures.

End of shaggy dog story....

- 203C 1" mic and box, with 1" standard and wrench. Set assembled from parts; if anyone has insight on the markings on the reverse of the mic blade, I'm all ears.
- No. C391 Center gage
- No. 272A Fillet gage on box
- No. 40 Screw pitch gage box
- No. 43 Lock Joint Dividers (I think that's their number, it's not marked; had to look them up in the 1938 catalog I found on the net)
- No. 178A Fillet gage box
- No. 272B Fillet gage & box
- No. 172A Thickness gage (not pictured - was still in my MVMTS)
No. S117PC Center punch set (5/64, 3/32, 9/64, 5/32"; missing the smallest punch in the set)
No. 565 Pin punch set (1/16, 3/32, 1/8, 5/32, 3/16, 7/32, 1/4, 5/16). Interestingly, the 7/32 punch is not marked for size, but it mics to 7/32"

Printed materials:
- Tools and Rules, Bulletin No. 1211, Issue 1, 2-10-1981
- Bulletin 356, Metrology Solutions, 9/16
- Catalog 33, Precision Tools, 4/14
- Bulletin 1317-150 M/T, 10/17
- Bulletin 1318 50 M/T, 10/17
(The documents printed this decade were all mailed to me from Starrett, per my earlier post upthread).

 

[d42jeep]

Steve,
Those look great. I’ve always wanted one of those round wooden punch sets in Starrett. Nice collection!
-Don

 

[dr_clyde]

My modest Starrett collection. Some old, some new.



Most of my common measuring tools are Mitutoyo, but I like Starrett too! Some were my dads, my granddads, some I bought new, some I bought used and with tool lots.

I'm at least the third owner of the 1-3" micrometers, there are 2 other guys names engraved on them. They still work fine and measure accurately.

The dial caliper is kind of unusual, as it is graduated in metric. I don't use it often, but I still prefer a dial to digital for general shop work, so it comes out when I get some metric parts.

 

[dr_clyde]

I use my combination square set more than anything else here. The edge finders, tap wrenches and radius gages are probably second. I prefer Interapid and Mitutoyo for my indicators, but the Starrett 196 test indicator is pretty handy for some mill operations. I have a few Last Word test indicators, but they are really too small for me to see easily, so they don't get used very much. They were my dad and grandpas, and I had them professionally restored.

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=268600

 

[Toolmaker65]

Good assortment of tools there Doc. I like the B&S BesTest and Interapid indicators too, especially for the fine stuff (.0001" and .00005"). Mitutoyo is my general purpose indicator, but my Starrett Last Words and 196 get good workouts too.

Starrett made metric tools for years - I have a Starrett No. 17 catalog (which dates to the early 1900's) that has metric micrometers in it.

Dug through the pile of machinists chests and found this one: Starrett No. 200W wood tool chest made of Honduras mahogany by H. Gerstner & Sons. It had a Starrett Catalog No. 27 with a date of 1961 in it, so it has been around a while. Have not seen one in a catalog older than the mid 1970's, so they are (or were) only offering a steel 7 drawer chest mad by Kennedy since then (basically a Kennedy 520 painted Starret red).

These came as a plain chest with no tools, or had the option of three different sets of tools depending on what you needed job and economy wise.

 

[davethorik]

Forgot I had this Starrett book for machinist apprentices from 1925.

 

[Toolmaker65]

Nice book Dave It was part of a three volume 'set' that Starrett put out. Over the last 20+ years, I was lucky enough to find all three, but not all from the same year (mine run from 1924 to 1929). The 'set' is:

1. The Starrett Book for Machinists' Apprentices
2. The Starrett Data Book for Machinists
3. The Starrett Book for Motor Machinists and Auto Repairmen

These are kind of a self-teaching guide and machinists handbook combined. Kind of neat for looking back on how things were done back in the 'old days'

 

[davethorik]

Very cool, didn't know there was a series. This one isn't in the greatest shape.

Here are a couple oddballs I have...
No. 223RL paper gage micrometer w/ finger ring, 0-11/32"

No. 170 dial sheet gage in original finger jointed slide top wood box. This is basically the same thing as the 223RL, but is based on their popular no. 196 perpendicular indicator instead of a micrometer.

I like the finger ring on the 223. I wish it would have caught on, at least as an option, on other mics.

 

[Toolmaker65]

That would be a handy option on mics up to 4" imo. Above that size, it probably would not be too useful. I can't see myself using the finger ring on an 18-19" mic though, but definitely on the small ones.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I picked up this No. 155 Screw Pitch Gage at the flea market on Friday.