Lugnut Torque Wrenches

[malibu101]

The topic of proper lugnut torque has been discussed here before. I'm in the camp that equal torque is a factor in not warping todays thinner rotors and is just good practice.
So, awhile ago I bought a HF 1/2" torque wrench to dedicate the sometimes rough and dirty task of putting on a tire and save the other wrench for finer uses.

I bought this- http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=239

Just stumbled across this at Jegs- http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/80580/10002/-1

Sure looks real similar. I guess I was an early genius.
$10 cheaper at HF (not counting a 20% coupon).

Jegs markets it as a roadside emergency tool. I think just down and dirty is fine for the roadside emergency. Loosening will be the bigger problem.
How many people will use this for abreaker bar to remove a wheel?

 

[scbird94]

I almost never use a torque wrench on rims. Torque extensions are where its at. If i have a fancy rim i will hand torque, but if you have a solid impact and a good compressor you can bank on a torque stick.

All that "warp rotor" **** is bogus, imo.

 

[t100]

All that "warp rotor" **** is bogus, imo.

depends on what the the rotors are attached to the hub.

on Toyota trucks, the front rotor is sandwiched between the wheel and hub by the lug nuts. you remove the wheel and 2 bolts holding the caliper, the rotor comes out, that's it. if the lugnuts are not evenly torqued down, warped rotors are guaranteed to happen.

all the good tire shops here in town are hand torquing them.

 

[Mickey O]

I've got a built in torque wrench in my arm for lug nuts, hasn't failed me yet.

 

[Mickey O]

I almost never use a torque wrench on rims. Torque extensions are where its at. If i have a fancy rim i will hand torque, but if you have a solid impact and a good compressor you can bank on a torque stick.

All that "warp rotor" **** is bogus, imo.

I've seen those, never used them, how do they work?

 

[PassnThru]

I've got a built in torque wrench in my arm for lug nuts, hasn't failed me yet.

Did you torque that?
My elbow clicked.
Good.

 

[BRTMechanic]

At my shop, any time a wheel comes off we have to torque them to 450 ft/lbs when mounting back on the vehicle. On our new Streetcars from Ireland there is a four stage torque process (a little overkill in my eyes) but we have to follow the strictest guidelines when it comes to public saftey.

 

[t100]

I recently had my tires re-balanced at Discount Tires, their computer put the manufacture suggested torque spec. on the work order automatically and the tire guy had to sign it off. I watched the whole thing right in front of me.

one of the classmates at school works at Pepboys, their new policy is one tech hand torque the lugnuts then the second guy comes in torque again with a different torque wrench, they both have to sign the work order. probably they got sued too many times before.

 

[sbebenelli]

At my shop, any time a wheel comes off we have to torque them to 450 ft/lbs when mounting back on the vehicle.

What are type cars do you work on?

 

[Mickey O]

At my shop, any time a wheel comes off we have to torque them to 450 ft/lbs when mounting back on the vehicle. On our new Streetcars from Ireland there is a four stage torque process (a little overkill in my eyes) but we have to follow the strictest guidelines when it comes to public saftey.

What exactly are street cars from Ireland?

 

[oleblu]

I'd bet BRTMechanic is doing truck/bus tires. Proper torque is 450-500 ft/lbs.

 

[BRTMechanic]

Yeah sorry I work for Bus Rapid Transit division in Las Vegas, StreetCar is made from Wright bus and its a hybrid vehicle, Civis is the other line of Rapid Transit vehicle made in France. They are both light rail types of buses.

IrisBus Civis

This is a WrightBus Streetcar

 

[RbrtAWhyt]

At my shop, any time a wheel comes off we have to torque them to 450 ft/lbs when mounting back on the vehicle. On our new Streetcars from Ireland there is a four stage torque process (a little overkill in my eyes) but we have to follow the strictest guidelines when it comes to public saftey.

450 foot pounds of torque seems way, way over the top for a car. Hardly anything on the following list is much over 100 except for a couple of super heavy duty trucks. But then again I didn't see "irish street car" on the list...

http://www.discounttire.com/dtcs/infoWheelTorque.dos

 

[BRTMechanic]

Well most 18-wheelers and transit buses wheel torque at the minimum is about 350 ft/lbs. Thats usually due to fact that you have a 150lb drum sitting behind it. You wouldnt want those to come apart while driving down the road.

 

[Toolhorder]

I can't believe anyone who thinks rotors won't warp if you have varying torque on wheel lug nuts.
It's a proven fact that it happens.

 

[nissan_crawler]

I torque them, and have seen such erratic torques come from high dollar torque sticks, that I don't believe in them. Give me a torque wrench, please.

 

[Tool Pants]

At Costco they say they torque them. I have a 1988 Toyota pickup that I have owned since 1989. Costco puts the torque specs on the invoice when you buy tires. I bought tires 2 years ago and 140 lbs was on the invoice. The torque for my 2 wheel drive is 76 lbs. 140 is for a 4 wheel drive. Checked them when I got home. I don't trust anyone with my wheel nuts. I had a wheel come off in my first car.

 

[1stwarrior95]

Never torqued a lug nut in my life. The torque specs are more for insurance reasons than warped rotors. It'd be really hard to warp a rotor by uneven tightening the lugnuts. the lugnuts are to close to the center to have much effect on the rotor.
Heat warps rotors.
Torque 'em down and then go out and do a few 120 to 0 stops then drive her through some water between the stops. Or just run it 60mph with slight pedal pressure for a few miles.
That'll warp the rotors quicker than any amount of mistorque.
That being said, torquing the lugnuts would still be a good idea.

 

[Kevin7909]

Not me if I have a choice. I figure that if I have a torque wrench with me then it is likely that I will also have a breaker or a big wratchet. Torque wrenches are not designed to be used to break bolts loose. That being said, if all I have is a TW then you bet I will use it.

On a slightly different note...has anyone used the 42" 100-600lb unit? I use the big ones for torquing crankshaft pulley bolts when changing timing belts. This looks like a good price if it works. Any thoughts?

Kevin

How many people will use this for abreaker bar to remove a wheel?

 

[Cryptic1911]

I torque mine down to 88ft/lbs every time

 

[t100]

At Costco they say they torque them. I have a 1988 Toyota pickup that I have owned since 1989. Costco puts the torque specs on the invoice when you buy tires. I bought tires 2 years ago and 140 lbs was on the invoice. The torque for my 2 wheel drive is 76 lbs. 140 is for a 4 wheel drive. Checked them when I got home. I don't trust anyone with my wheel nuts. I had a wheel come off in my first car.

no, there's no difference between 2wd and 4wd. the torque spec is determined by the size of the lug bolt. your toyota uses 12mm x 1.5pitch, 80ftlb no matter what. 76ftlb is acceptable.

http://www.tirerack.com/wheels/tech/techpage.jsp?techid=107

 

[benjamming]

Never torqued a lug nut in my life. The torque specs are more for insurance reasons than warped rotors. It'd be really hard to warp a rotor by uneven tightening the lugnuts. the lugnuts are to close to the center to have much effect on the rotor.
Heat warps rotors.
Torque 'em down and then go out and do a few 120 to 0 stops then drive her through some water between the stops. Or just run it 60mph with slight pedal pressure for a few miles.
That'll warp the rotors quicker than any amount of mistorque.
That being said, torquing the lugnuts would still be a good idea.

Heat will warp rotors but it's much higher than the normal street car can dream of. StopTech Article

 

[boogerboy72]

Heat will warp rotors but it's much higher than the normal street car can dream of. StopTech Article

youve bumped your head. every day cars warp rotors all the time.

 

[t100]

if you have aluminum wheels, you'd better be torque them down properly.

with the current economy, auto makers are cutting corners on every possible front, better be prepared. everything needs to be cheaper and lighter to achieve the fuel mileage since the government has involved in the mpg regulations.

under sized rotors is gonna be a problem. the thinner rotors will stop the same way as the heavier ones when they fresh out of the factory, but remember, brake pads used to be lasting 20k miles, now they are good for 40-50k, why? the pads are harder, that puts more heat on the rotors. thinner rotor doesn't dissipate heat as good as the thicker ones. again, it depends on how the rotors are mounted, on the sandwich style, evenly torqued wheels helps spread the load evenly reduces the chances of hot spot.

I just had this class at school this week.

 

[skeletonizer]

youve bumped your head. every day cars warp rotors all the time.

Especially ones with unevenly torqued lugs. LOL

 

[boogerboy72]

Especially ones with unevenly torqued lugs. LOL

yeah im sure thats what causes it.

 

[tonydanzah]

Rotors can be warped fairly easily if you a beating on a car. I warped the front rotors on a 2003 acura tl with 3 120mph to 0 stops in a row. Straight to warped in 2-3minutes.

 

[t100]

yeah im sure thats what causes it.

you can change your oil every 3000 miles or every 30000 miles. somebody changes the oil and filter together, somebody else never changes the filter. will your engine explode? probably not. you can do it the right way, you can do it the half way. you just got more chance to do some damage. your car your call.

 

[GeorgiaHybrid]

I keep a clicker on the tool cart just for torquing down lug nuts. It doesn't take take long to do the job correctly so why not do the job right the first time?

 

[Kevin7909]

Nissan recalled the rotors on the early Titans and replaced them with bigger rotors because they would warp after a few thousand miles (they would get hot and warp). My truck had this problem and I do use a TW on my wheels. And like others here I have warped rotors with spirited driving and hard braking.

Kevin

Heat will warp rotors but it's much higher than the normal street car can dream of. StopTech Article

 

[bmxr4life87]

140 ft lbs is what we use on e/f 350 and 450s with 2 piece swiveling lug nuts 350 on topkick c6500 medium duty trucks most passenger cars don't need anything over 100 ft lbs and torque sticks are so erratic we use em at work but personally I wouldn't trust a torque stick I just know my impact and use it and I always get atleast a quarter turn out of the torque wrench so there's no doubt if they are tight enough or too tight

 

[TheCarbideRat]

.....what??

 

[sr20det]

Very rarely have I seen a "warped" rotor, mostly when I have a customer complain of "warped" rotors it is a case of pad material transfer. They get the brake pads hotter than the compound will allow, causing some brake compound transfer to the rotor in an uneven layer and causes issues.

I would highly doubt that lugnut torque could be related to rotor warpage.

I also have a "calibrated arm." I would put my arm up against a HF clicker wrench!

 

[Charles (in GA)]

I never used a torque wrench, but about 7 or 8 years ago, after a series of warped rotors that I could not explain otherwise, I began using a torque wrench and use it religiously now. Haven't had a warped rotor since. I have always torqued in a zig-zag pattern like you should for even torque, but was still having problems and several tire places suggested using a torque wrench.

Charles

 

[sbebenelli]

Very rarely have I seen a "warped" rotor, mostly when I have a customer complain of "warped" rotors it is a case of pad material transfer. They get the brake pads hotter than the compound will allow, causing some brake compound transfer to the rotor in an uneven layer and causes issues.

I would highly doubt that lugnut torque could be related to rotor warpage.

I also have a "calibrated arm." I would put my arm up against a HF clicker wrench!

I'm glad you will never be working on the brakes on my vehicles. I have machined many rotors and know without a doubt they warp and it's very common.

I can't believe anyone who has "customers" would think such nonsense.

 

[TheCarbideRat]

I second that [^^^] I've machined a bunch of em as well.

 

[t100]

why aluminum wheels specially need to be torqued?

there are few different component on a hub/wheel assembly. the hub, brake rotor, wheel lugs, lug nuts, everything is steel except the aluminum wheel. when the vehicle gets to the normal operating temperature specially after couple hard brakes, the whole thing can get really hot, heat also transfers from the rotor to the wheel. here is the problem, steel and aluminum expand and contract at different rates when temperature changes, also, when heated, aluminum gets softer a lot quicker then steel. if you got an unevenly torqued wheels, the problem just got multiplied, such as warped rotors and lug nuts bite into the wheels.

auto makers spend a lot of money on finding out the optimum torque spec to balance the safety and longevity of the wheels and brake rotors. there is a scientific reason for any given torque force for that application.

it's your car, your life, it only takes extra 1 minute or 2 to properly mount a wheel, it doesn't hurt to do so for the sake of safety.

if you are a shop owner, there's no reason not doing it just because of the liability.

 

[Garys Garage]

if you have aluminum wheels, you'd better be torque them down properly.

with the current economy, auto makers are cutting corners on every possible front, better be prepared. everything needs to be cheaper and lighter to achieve the fuel mileage since the government has involved in the mpg regulations.

under sized rotors is gonna be a problem. the thinner rotors will stop the same way as the heavier ones when they fresh out of the factory, but remember, brake pads used to be lasting 20k miles, now they are good for 40-50k, why? the pads are harder, that puts more heat on the rotors. thinner rotor doesn't dissipate heat as good as the thicker ones. again, it depends on how the rotors are mounted, on the sandwich style, evenly torqued wheels helps spread the load evenly reduces the chances of hot spot.

I just had this class at school this week.

When did brake pads only last 20,000 miles. Used to be pads were made from asbestos and did not warp rotors as much but now we have lots of metal in the pads and they build way more heat. Every time you machine your rotors they warp sooner. When we get a customer who warps their rotors all the time we up sell them drilled and slotted rotors. Have not have one come back yet warped. Was also told by the Napa brake rep that you better off using cheaper pads and better rotors.

 

[caper]

Torque wrench everytime.After losing a wheel to torque sticks it's torque wrench or nothing.Nothing like the feeling you get when you see the car you just worked on being hauled into the dealership on a tow truck with no wheel and half a fender.As for warping rotors,it's common knowledge that wheel torque will affect runout on a rotor and it is taught in every course on brake service I've ever attended in the last twenty years.Techs who don't torque wheels are hacks in my opinion not mechanics.It takes less than two minutes to properly torque the wheels with a torque wrench,there is no excuse.Torque sticks are way to unpredictable.Too many variables to be accurate.Air pressure at the gun,how good the gun is,how old the stick is all play a factor in their use.I had my wheel come off because the stick went to hell in a hurry,lucky it wasn't more than one car and very lucky nobody got hurt.

 

[Skyline]

You guys are missing one VERY important point. A lot cars these days use wheel studs that are very easy to break with over torque. Nissan/Infiniti products for sure, like my G35.

When I got home from a tire change at a local tire shop, I checked the torque on my wheels. All were way over torqued. When I got a breaker bar to loosen them, two studs broke off with the lug bolts. With almost zero force...they were ready to fall off. As a precaution, I had to replace all the studs on the car. Any time I go to this tire shop now, I bring my own torque wrench, with plastic coated socket. If it were not for the fact that they have the best balancing equipment around, I would not even go back.

Another local shop changed some tires recently on my son's Z28; I checked the torque on those, and while some were about 25ft lbs over, some were in the 50 ft lb range. This car doesn't have the fragile studs of my G35, but still, this is simply not acceptable. A lug at 50lbs can fall off, and once one goes...the rest can follow.

I'm sorry, but torquing with an airgun is asking for a wheel to come off. A torque stick is certainly better than nothing I guess, but a torque wrench is the right way. And since these are some of the most critical bolts on a car, I really don't get why one would want to reserve the cheap torque wrench for this task. Granted they may not be as critical as a head bolt, but on some cars (like my Infiniti), the acceptable range to avoid potentially deadly failure is very narrow.

There simply is no justification for skipping this step; you are putting your customer's safety at risk. For those that feel that they can get it right with a breaker bar, I am a little more inclined to believe that, especially if it is always the same car...your car. But different cars need very different torque values, and simply feel different due to stud/lug designs.