Lumber quality

[isuhunter]

Hello all!

I'm purely a hobbyist and don't buy lumber very often. Today I stopped at menards to pickup some lumber for a work bench and MY GOODNESS! Finding a board that was true/straight was nearly impossible!

Where do you guys buy lumber when you are looking for something of quality?

 

[NUTTSGT]

I've got good and bad from both Menard's and HD. It just depends on the bunk, where it came from or if it's a pile of left over it's been ransacked.

 

[nh_yota]

Home centers get lower grade lumber than real lumber yards so they can keep prices low, and as a result you need to put in more effort to cull the bad boards.

 

[steveo1o9]

It's terrible. I was just at HD buying a 2x10 for a floating shelf project and a few 2x8s for a planter. It probably took me a half an hour picking out 4 boards that were just OK. The 2x8s didn't need to be anything special so I wasn't as picky but the 2x10 being a shelf in the living room needed to be as straight and knotless as I could fine. Everything is twisted, knotty, or soaked from sitting outside. I have bought wet wood (no other choice) and had it split after drying in my garage for a few weeks, a total waste. The 2x10 was also barley 9" according to my tape... seems they keep cheating more and more off. Unfortunately I don't really have any other local options unless I am ordering in bulk or want to take an hour drive.

 

[finn]

I’m not a furniture builder, but I do know that you won’t find furniture grade lumber mixed in with construction grade lumber.

As a example, number 1 and better boards are higher quality than your run of the mill boards, and furniture grade lumber would probably be best sourced from a specialty retailer, not a lumber yard of any type.

Don’t expect to pay $1.99 for a 2x4, though.

If I need good boards, I go to the local sawmill / millwork yard.

Sometimes I bring my own rough saw logs for finish milling.

They can’t beat Menards price for dimensional construction lumber, even if I provide the logs.

 

[Git]

Home centers get lower grade lumber than real lumber yards so they can keep prices low, and as a result you need to put in more effort to cull the bad boards.

I wouldn't say that is the case

Recently I went to a local lumberyard (Ganahls) because I needed a couple of sheets of 3/4" MDO and some 2 x 4's. Normal lumberyard setup - you place your order at the counter, walk over to another place to pay and then go outside where you wait to hand your paperwork to a yard worker who goes and gets your lumber and brings it out to your truck

So they bring over my MDO on a forklift with the 2 x 4's stacked on top - they looked pretty good. So I drive home and while unloading flip the 2 x 4's over and the side that you couldn't see looks like ****. Wane, knots, etc etc. And I paid more than what I normally pay at Lowes. So I drive back to Ganahls to return them and then over to Lowes. Granted you have to dig through the pile a bit, but I can usually get some pretty good pieces

 

[nh_yota]

I wouldn't say that is the case

It's not always the case but in my experience it usually occurs more often than not. Both lumber yards and home centers tailor what they sell based on what their customers want. Lumber yards cater more to professional contractors who don't have the time to deal with crappy lumber whereas home centers cater to DYI people who are primarily focused on price.

 

[spudley]

The old joke is if you want a perfect circle, get three 2x4's at Menards. Seriously, you'll need to go to a real lumber yard or a sawmill for better quality products.
I bought 1000 bf of T&G white cedar from a small mill in the UP, loaded the boards exactly as they were stacked and used every one. Half the price and twice the quality of Menards, well worth the trip.
Had a nice long chat with the owner as he invited me into his house (on the property). He also sent me off with three bottle of freshly made syrup. Great guy.
Don't get that level of service often...

 

[77thor]

Yeah... Menards is the last place in the world where to buy wood...
I don't think that there is a straight board in the store.

 

[Blazinzuk]

Lumber yard HD Lowe's are all about the same. From what I have seen.

My cousin builds houses. He says the best bet for getting straight is buying an unopened bunk. Then using em quickly.

Unfortunately not a solution for most

 

[mygarageone]

Here the secret , never get the lumber from the heated building . It will always be bad and it doesn't matter who you buy from. Go out to there outdoor storage and you can find the stuff that's not crawling away.
Back in the 70's before the advent of the box stores , I worked for the largest customer home builder in the U.S , we bought directly from Boise & Cascade , Weyhouser , and others.
It was all Douglas fir , but if you left a 10 ft 2x4 laying in the sun it would crawl away. The larger stuff would twist a bit but nothing like a 2x4 . Most of the pine your buying now days ,is not from old growth timber but from tree's that are fast growth and with that comes twisted grain . The best lumber comes from Red /Pondarosa or white pine but not much of that being cut now days

 

[chaosracing]

Here the secret , never get the lumber from the heated building . It will always be bad and it doesn't matter who you buy from. Go out to there outdoor storage and you can find the stuff that's not crawling away.
Back in the 70's before the advent of the box stores , I worked for the largest customer home builder in the U.S , we bought directly from Boise & Cascade , Weyhouser , and others.
It was all Douglas fir , but if you left a 10 ft 2x4 laying in the sun it would crawl away. The larger stuff would twist a bit but nothing like a 2x4 . Most of the pine your buying now days ,is not from old growth timber but from tree's that are fast growth and with that comes twisted grain . The best lumber comes from Red /Pondarosa or white pine but not much of that being cut now days

Agree with this. If you look at the ring seperation of lumber from today, even compared with stuff from the 80's, but especially from stuff made before the 1950's there is a big difference. Todays lumber *****, there is a reason why alot of places are going engineered, even 2x4 are now being made engineered for better results.

 

[77Birdman]

I have a couple of "real" lumber yards where I buy the bulk of my material. Stopped by HD yesterday to get 6 - 2x6x12 and had to pick thru about 20 and still ended up with marginal at best. Lowes seems to have the best framing lumber between them and HD, but it all seems worse than I get from the yards. And, the lumber yards are cheaper!

 

[billspit]

Agree with this. If you look at the ring seperation of lumber from today, even compared with stuff from the 80's, but especially from stuff made before the 1950's there is a big difference. Todays lumber *****, there is a reason why alot of places are going engineered, even 2x4 are now being made engineered for better results.

Bingo. Years ago I bought a bunch of treated deck boards (last of the good stuff). I went through and pulled them myself and had them delivered to me. Later I went back for 2x4s for the railings and could not really find any good ones. I just got the best they had.

BTW, that lumber company went under during the recent unpleasantness.

 

[readhead]

Some things never change. I think I have had this conversation on a regular basis for the last forty five years. Wood is a very forgiving and easy to use building material. I can understand the frustration of DIY'ers with high expectations. Professionals learned long ago how to make wood work for every day construction. And I agree that it is a treat to cut open a good quality unit of studs. If you want perfect use steel but that won't be popular with homeowners.

 

[niget2002]

Well... you could always finish the boards yourself.

Get a Jointer and a Planer... buy the boards oversized and finish them off to your specs.

Or, you keep sifting through what's available and do the best you can like the rest of us

 

[Crazyjake8493]

When buying lumber, skip the big box stores and go right to a lumber yard. Better quality, better service, and sometimes better prices too. Unless you're making a hockey stick, then go to HD/Lowes.

If you're looking for hardwood for finer woodworking, certain lumber yards will carry some depending on your area, but you might have better luck with a hardwood dealer. Construction lumber is not the best choice for woodworking.

 

[KEH]

To get lumber for a bench from a box store, get 12 inch wide boards 2 inches thick. They have to be cut from large trees and so the grain is tighter. Sight both ways along the board and select the straightest. If the edge is only almost perfect, it can be made straight on a table saw by trimming a small amount off, but using a jointer is better.

Get a board with as few knots as possible. You wont find a knot free board, they have been selected out further up the limber selection process.

Assemble your bench ASAP so the boards are fastened together and wont warp.

KEH

 

[Jeff95TA]

Kiln dried pressure treated lumber from a lumber yard is SO much nicer to work with than the wet stuff!

 

[BruceMc]

Lumber yard HD Lowe's are all about the same. From what I have seen.

My cousin builds houses. He says the best bet for getting straight is buying an unopened bunk. Then using em quickly.

I think a lot of the difference between the box stores and traditional yard is that the box stores are self serve. In a box store, unless you are picking from a freshly opened bundle, the lumber you are searching through becomes progressively more full of pieces other buyers have rejected as the 'good' boards get high-graded. The smaller the pile, the worse it is.

In most traditional yards they don't waste time sorting to give one customer better wood than the next customer. Unless a board is obviously damaged (and even then), it gets loaded as it comes off the stack. Everybody gets pretty much the same mix of good and bad.

 

[Falcon67]

Fast growth stuff is never going to be like the old growth board my (your) grand dad used to use.

 

[lakeroadster]

Best luck I have found at Home Depot is to get to know some of the guys that work in the lumber area and get them to pull in a new bundle.

The lumber at the local yards isn't any better than Home Depot.

When the barn package from Lester arrived at our home I was amazed at the quality of the lumber. They shipped it from Nebraska to our home in Colorado.

I haven't found anything here locally, anywhere, that compares.

 

[rsanter]

The last piece of furniture I built I bought the wood from a lumber supply house and I paid more for ‘furniture grade’ material. Even at that I went through the stack to pick the best but I got good stuff.
I have a friend that custom furniture to sell. High priced stuff. But he actually goes out and buys trees and mills the lumber and dries it in a friends drying room. I used to laugh and question why he bothered with that until I saw how much lumber quality has slipped over the years

 

[shelteredV]

It's tough these days. Farm raised trees are like Purdue chickens, they may get the job done, but it very well might come back to bite you.
I use engineered (timber strand) framing lumber almost completely now. All headers are LVL, joists are TJI, and more steel is going into the jobs lately. All material comes from my commercial supplier because it's the best possible quality I can get.
When we do anything nice in the shop, plywood comes from Roberts Plywood and veneers because the quality is good and very controled.
All specialty lumber comes from a few boutique mills and suppliers that we can count on to give us god product with less than 10% waste.
If I had to rely on Home Depot or Menards, I think I would find another line of work....

 

[Falcon67]

>If I had to rely on Home Depot or Menards, I think I would find another line of work....

We (wife and I) love to snoop through new construction. Most locally comes from the local big boxes or one of the two local yards. Some of it is pretty sad. And the carpentry ain't so great either - lots of gaps, splintered boards and such. When my wife asked why there is such a big caulk gap behind the master sink counter top, I told here she should come pick 2x4s with me sometime. You'll wonder how any wall gets to be flat or straight.

 

[8mpg]

I think a lot of people have unrealistic expectations. I have learned over the last few years that this wood is cheap and not expected to be straight. After walking quite a few houses under construction, and seeing my house (gutted) from the 60s...its all the same. Some are good, some are bad but they all get used.

These 1x and 2x boards are not meant for furniture. They are a rough #2 or less graded board.

 

[seang81]

Maybe not true at all locations but I think Lowes has consistently better lumber than Menards. I do buy at Menards sometimes because I have rebate certificates burning a hole in my pocket and its more convenient. I always leave with an aching back from sorting thru trashy boards.

 

[Dirtydan69]

I actually had pretty good results at the Menards in Hanover Ptak and ?Long Grove illinois. Now that I’m in AZ it’s terrible. Lowes does have a better selection here than HD. I spent almost 30 minutes yesterday at HD trying to find something decent. I need to make some rough sawn shutters for a customer. Figured I would use fence slats. They were all so wet and crooked I gave up. Went to the back and found pine 1x6 smooth/rough. Went through 50 boards and found three good ones. Needed six. Went to Lowes and in about ten minutes I had picked through about 20 1/2x6 dry fence boards to get the ones I needed.

 

[Skiff Builder]

When you walk up to a lift of lumber you should go right to the end of the stack. Look at the annular rings and start by selecting the ones that have vertical lines through the 1-1/2 dimension. Once in a while you'll find some slower growth stock too.
Anytime I'm there I'll look through quickly. I stockpile better stuff untill needed. Have actually found #1 and Select mixed in occasionally.

 

[egdede]

I wouldn't say that is the case

Recently I went to a local lumberyard (Ganahls)...Normal lumberyard setup - you place your order at the counter, walk over to another place to pay and then go outside where you wait to hand your paperwork to a yard worker who goes and gets your lumber and brings it out to your truck...on top - they looked pretty good. So I drive home and while unloading flip the 2 x 4's over and the side that you couldn't see looks like ****. Wane, knots, etc etc....

I buy all my lumber at the Pasadena store. You can drive your car or truck into the yard and park by the bin and sort your own lumber. It will be better than the BB stores.

Imagine what the wood would have looked like if you had HD pick your load for pickup!

 

[theoldwizard1]

Here the secret , never get the lumber from the heated building . It will always be bad and it doesn't matter who you buy from. Go out to there outdoor storage and you can find the stuff that's not crawling away.

Not much of a carpenter (not even a good wood butcher) but I think this is root of a lot of problems ! I don't know what the moisture content of "white wood" is coming out of a kiln, but it clearly needs more drying which is gets being stored inside.

I have have reasonable straight 2x4s turn into "bananas" leaving them out in the sun ! If your framing, you can usually force 2x4 and 2x6 "straight enough" and then the rest of the frame will hold them. Otherwise, I have no good advice. (Leave them out in the sun, but up off of the ground, for a week or two with a couple of bags of cement on top ?)

 

[ozyborn]

I gave up on the box stores for any wood. Straight to my local mill. Worth it to me.

 

[mikegt4]

Everyone says go to a "real" lumber yard. I wish it were true here. The last 2 local lumber yards that I went to didn't want to sell anything less than enough lumber to build a room addition. A third one had big box store quality and they picked what you got. I sure am glad that I don't have many wood projects anymore.

 

[cj7jeep81]

I'm sure a lot of it depends on the store. The Menards I go to easily has the best lumber of any of the stores around, and I rarely have to do much sorting to find good boards. Best part is they actually have any even length up to 24 or 26', while all the others (around me) stop at 16.

 

[finn]

Not much of a carpenter (not even a good wood butcher) but I think this is root of a lot of problems ! I don't know what the moisture content of "white wood" is coming out of a kiln, but it clearly needs more drying which is gets being stored inside.

I have have reasonable straight 2x4s turn into "bananas" leaving them out in the sun ! If your framing, you can usually force 2x4 and 2x6 "straight enough" and then the rest of the frame will hold them. Otherwise, I have no good advice. (Leave them out in the sun, but up off of the ground, for a week or two with a couple of bags of cement on top ?)

It won’t dry indoors either unless it’s unbundled and stacked with stickers, in a low humidity room

Th local one man sawmill has a kiln, and so does the five man mill down the street.

Current cost to kiln dry hardwood boards is $.69/board foot for 1” rough cut boards.

That’s more than you are paying for a complete 2”x4” stud at the box store.

When I asked about air drying, the sawmill proprietor said, I think, a minimum of 9 months in a covered building with good air circulation. Could have been longer.... I paid the $.69

 

[Falcon67]

We have two Lowes, one McCoys, one HD and two locals. Only McCoys and the two locals store some of their lumber outside. I have not really noticed much difference in any particular pile of 1x or 2x boards, without regard to storage. McCoys and HD usually have decent lumber for the price. City also, just more $ because they are a small local yard.

I do like others - I have a small pile of 2x4s against one wall of the shop. If I see a few good ones and have the truck, I'll snag them and stack for future projects.

One source for used may be form boards for foundation pours. When they poured the house next door, I got all the take offs. Seems the 2X stuff exposed to wet crete ***** in some of the juice and becomes straight and stays that way, even if left laying on the ground.

 

[b-boy]

I recently built a bar in my basement. I needed a bunch of 3/4" oak plywood for the panels. I went to Lowes and they were completely out. I went to another Lowes, and they were completely out as well. I went back multiple times. Finally, I said 'screw it' and went to a local lumber yard. They had it, but it was not cheap.

Next time I was in Lowes I mentioned the fact that they never had oak plywood. The manager said that someone shows up the day it's delivered and buys it all. I asked him why he just didn't order more so there would be some available to everyone else and they'd sell more oak plywood.

He got a confused look and just shrugged. It seemed pretty logical to me.

When I re-did my basement, I wanted it to match my house, which is 130 yrs old. Lowes lumber was perfect for this. It was very cheap. I used 1x8s, 1x6s, and 1x4s for the moulding. Since they were so gnarly, and had so many knots, they look great. I probably would have gone elsewhere if I was redoing my living room though.

 

[86turbodsl]

Everyone says go to a "real" lumber yard. I wish it were true here. The last 2 local lumber yards that I went to didn't want to sell anything less than enough lumber to build a room addition. A third one had big box store quality and they picked what you got. I sure am glad that I don't have many wood projects anymore.

So you went to the lumber yard and they REFUSED to sell wood to you? Isn't that illegal? It is here.

 

[8mpg]

I recently built a bar in my basement. I needed a bunch of 3/4" oak plywood for the panels. I went to Lowes and they were completely out. I went to another Lowes, and they were completely out as well. I went back multiple times. Finally, I said 'screw it' and went to a local lumber yard. They had it, but it was not cheap.

Next time I was in Lowes I mentioned the fact that they never had oak plywood. The manager said that someone shows up the day it's delivered and buys it all. I asked him why he just didn't order more so there would be some available to everyone else and they'd sell more oak plywood.

He got a confused look and just shrugged. It seemed pretty logical to me.

When I re-did my basement, I wanted it to match my house, which is 130 yrs old. Lowes lumber was perfect for this. It was very cheap. I used 1x8s, 1x6s, and 1x4s for the moulding. Since they were so gnarly, and had so many knots, they look great. I probably would have gone elsewhere if I was redoing my living room though.

The plywood at a lumber yard is usually much better quality. The stuff at big box stores is usually cheap 7ply stuff with the thinnest veneer possible. The stuff I buy from my lumber yard is usually 11-13 ply stuff and much nicer with no voids.

 

[K13]

So you went to the lumber yard and they REFUSED to sell wood to you? Isn't that illegal? It is here.

It illegal to refuse based on discrimination. If someone wants to only sell certain quantities they are fully in their right to do so. Just like wholesalers can refuse to sell to the general public.