Lump needs help with a BIG vise...asap Please

[Lump]

Today (Saturday 9-24-11) I was a vendor at the Troy Swap Meet at the Miami Co Fairgrounds in Troy, Ohio. I usually spend at least 1/3 of any day during which I am supposed to be a "vendor" shopping for myself...especially during the blacksmith show. But today my own booth was really busy, and I couldn't get away until the day was nearly over.

Anyway, when I did finally get a chance to shop, I found two of the biggest bench vises I have personally ever seen. One seller was away from his booth, so I don't know his price. But his anvils in that same booth were priced...and they were out of my reach. So I ASSUME that vise is too high for me. (pics of that vise tomorrow night. I'm outta time now.)

However his neighbor had a really big vise for sale for sale too (nearly as big as that first one), and I need advice from our GJ vise gurus on this one, please. The seller is leaving at noon tomorrow, and I will probably pass on this cool vise, unless you folks tell me it's worth snagging.

This one is a MASSEY brand vise...not a name I was familiar with. (Do you guys know that brand?) It is really, really big. Look at the 2nd photo, below, with my glasses resting on the slide for size comparison... This is a BIG honker, in my opinion! It must weigh nearly a hundred pounds, and the jaws are either 7 or 8 inches wide. Note, however, that the handle appears to be nothing more than a really big bolt.

Below is a pic of the side with the mfr name cast into the side:

The shot below shows you my concern, and demonstrates my dilemmna, with which I need your assistance, please. The vise is obviously repainted, and the dynamic jaw has obviously been welded on top. I scrutinized the sides and bottom of the dynamic jaw carefully, and found no evidence that the jaw had cracked all the way through. But I'll bet that the jaw insert has been welded in place, and then ground smooth. You can clearly see grinder marks on it, and I see where "bubbles" in the welds are still visible. I'll bet that someone tried to weld that insert to the jaw, without using the correct rod/alloy, and had trouble doing it. ALSO...there appears to be a tiny crack at the right side of the dynamic jaw...right where the weld-bead edge must have been. Can you see it in this photo? It's right where the dark red color of the vise meets the area where the light of the sky overhead adds a whitish tint to the red color...at the right edge. It MIGHT be only in the paint? If not, it may be because the cast iron was welded without the benefit of an oven to provide even heating and controlled cooling? Your opinions, please!

Below is a another angle view of that dynamic jaw.

This vise has no swivel base, and never did. You would need to notch the front edge of a bench to mount it. Also, note that the slide has many small dings in it, but nothing serious. And in the shot below, you can see his "asking" price of $225.

Ok, so as I said before, unless you folks tell me that the problems I've pointed out are likely no big deal, and unless this guy drops about $75 out of his price, I will pass on this vise tomorrow. (If all the above things DO happen, I will of course insist on scraping that red paint away so I can see beneath it. And the seller is a long-standing member of SOFA, attending every year, and offers to stand firmly behind this vise if it fails.)

But either way, I would really appreciate hearing your opinions about it. I would be lying if I said that I didn't think it is REALLY cool looking vise, and it is definitely the biggest one I've ever found offered for sale.

One more thing....below is a photo of that other, even-bigger vise. But it seems to be strange...and may be incomplete...maybe part of a machine or something? Note how the screw at rear is exposed, and too much of the vise seems to hang out in front of the bench-mount area...with not enough area visible to mount it. So I ASSUME that it must be part of some kind of machine? Anyone know for sure?

Once again, thanks SO MUCH to the smart vise folks of Garage Journal! I really appreciate you all.

 

[leg17]

Lump
Wish I could help. (And wish I was at Quad State also!!)
But as rough as that Massey looks in most places, I would be cautious about the welded parts. But you already know that.
Did you have to pay $60 to get into the Blacksmith show?
That is usually an awesome tailgate area. The biggest in the blacksmith world.

 

[SweetD]

The welds on the Massey vise would concern me. The slide and "anvil area" (not really an anvil of course) are also pretty beat up. $225 is way high in my opinion.

The vise looks very much like a Prentiss. I have not heard of Massey before. The "Clincher" -great name - kind of like the Prentiss "BULL DOG".

It's definitely old and that handle looks replaced as you say. If I was looking to resell, I wouldn't buy it. If I was keeping it for myself for a working vise (not collectable), I would not pay over about $75 while pointing out all the issues to the seller.

Good luck!

Dave

 

[slip knot]

@$2.00/lb for an abused vise? I believe I'd pass. Even at $150 I'd still be real hesitant to buy a welded vise.

OTOH I was given a big Parker vise 20+ yrs ago that had the dynamic jaw welded back to the slide, all the way around. I've abused it tremendously and its still together. If it was welded correctly its probably pretty strong still, BUT it still a welded vise.

 

[Even 11]

Lump;

PASS on nearly any vise for that price. I do agree with what you are talking about and think it would be one I might pick up for $100ish or less. I'd have to guess its a 6" vise (Clincher 06) which is uncommon but not rare. Never heard of Massey, but there is tons of vise companies I haven't heard of out there too. That is one of the few I can say looks like it has been beaten, battered, and bruised! I think it would take a ton of work to make it look good again!

-Dane

 

[Danglerb]

I found a little with some creative googling.

"The Directory of American Toolmakers is a little vague concerning Massey Vice Co. The company was formed in 1891 in Chicago by Thomas C. Massey but he had done business previously in both New York City and Chicago using his own name. He used the brand name Lightening Grip on some of his vices. It doesn't indicate how long the company was in business. Information courtesy of Bob Nelson and the EAIA."

Google book excerpt had some stuff from 1908 Iron Trade Review about the Massey sliding jaw "Lightning Grip" vise and patents.

A couple things show some connection to the Riley and Harris vises.

 

[gj67stang]

I saw that vise today and it is HUGE and AWESOME! But for the price and condition, I'd say pass on it. I think it, along with most everything else at Quad State, was overpriced and not many of the vendors were willing to deal.

 

[bgott]

He's way strong on that at $225. I might chance it at $75 for a user, if I needed it. I use the **** out of a vise, beat on 'em, use 'em for a press, beat on the handle, etc. I'd know within a week if that was a crack or a paint flaw. You know that thing has been abused, they don't use a bolt for a handle just because it was a fad. I would be more worried about the damage on the back of the slide, I bet there is a crack under that paint.

 

[ZRX61]

I'd buy that second vise in a heartbeat. No idea WTF it is, but it just screams "cool!"

 

[Lump]

Thanks guys! It's Sunday am now, and I am about to leave and go back up to the fairgrounds. I will definitely pass on that red vise. But if that other weird one is still there, I will seek out the vendor and at least find out some more info about it today...and get a price. Then later this evening I'll try to find time to post another thread with photos from the event.

 

[autopts]

Lump, don't sacrifice condition for size. No question that Massey has seen better days. Its not worth the trip back to your truck.

XRX61 I have one almost identical but it nicer condition. It bolts thru the bench with a adjustable support screw. Its handle might be the biiggest I've ever seen.