Lutron Maestro MACL-153M Indicator Lights Blinking

[sbosecker]

I have been installing some dimmable LED Floodlight Bulbs in my house (CREE Model# spar38-1503045td-12de26-1-11).

I have the same setup in 3 places:

4 of the Cree bulbs
A Lutron Maestro MACL-153M Dimmer
A Lutron Maestro MA-R Companion Dimmer.

Yesterday one of these MACL-153M Dimmers became unresponsive (exercising the switch produced no response from the unlit bulbs) & the entire vertical string of indicator lights on the Dimmer were blinking in unison. This circuit had been working fine for about a month.

I have done some troubleshooting of this situation and have some odd (to my way of thinking) results so the above is the tip of the iceberg.

For the moment I'm going to stick with the blinking indicator lights. I've tried to find information on what the blinking indicator lights mean via a Google search but that tends to turn up a lot of chaff and no grains of wheat.

Anyone on this forum know what the blinking lights are indicating?

It should be noted the indicator lights would blink together for seemingly random amounts, pause lit for a double count and then start flashing again. This might be a count of 17, pause; start flashing again for a count of 3, pause; start flashing again for a count of 7, etc.

Scott

 

[Stuart in MN]

I found a programming guide that may be of use, it explains what the different indicator lights are for. http://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocumentLibrary/048459.pdf

 

[sbosecker]

I found a programming guide that may be of use, it explains what the different indicator lights are for. http://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocumentLibrary/048459.pdf

Stuart in MN,

Well I timed the blink rate and it is 2 times per second.

The document described a slow blink rate of 4 times per second and a fast blink rate of 8 times per second.

Now it gets a little more subjective...

The glossary describes those blinking lights as plural. Out of context that would seem to mean "all the indicator lights".

However when one reads the rest of the document it only gives examples of a single indicator light blinking at any particular time. The programmer manipulates the device to make one of the many indicator lights blink. When a particular indicator light is blinking, the function associated with that indicator light is programable.

I don't think this document contains a description of the blinking I am seeing.

Thanks!

Scott

 

[cybrdyke]

Most common faults:
1. blue screw terminal is miswired to neutral wire or touching ground.
2. Incompatible lamps. That Cree part number is not on the compatible list.

Maybe it's one of those two things.
Good luck,
CD

 

[cybrdyke]

If not, then pull out the tab at the bottom of the rocker, count to ten, and put it back in.
CD

 

[Git]

I think I would start by replacing the LEDs to narrow down the problem. If the old lights work fine, it would be a pretty good indication that the LED's aren't compatible with that dimmer.

You may have a Magnetic Low Frequency (MLV) dimmer when you really need a Electronic Low Frequency (ELV) dimmer

 

[Specracer]

Is there not enough load? LEDs reduced power load sometimes can not be enough for the dimmer to work.

 

[sbosecker]

Most common faults:
1. blue screw terminal is miswired to neutral wire or touching ground.
2. Incompatible lamps. That Cree part number is not on the compatible list.

Maybe it's one of those two things.
Good luck,
CD

If not, then pull out the tab at the bottom of the rocker, count to ten, and put it back in.
CD

Cyberdyke,

1. It worked for a month or so...
2. I was aware of that but they are working fine in 2 other identical setups in my home. The fact that these lamps aren't on the compatible list may mean they haven't been tested. They are older LED lamps.

Second quote

Yes, I've tried that ...and quite a few other bits of troubleshooting.

As noted in my original post, the other troubleshooting stuff has yielded some odd (to me) results. I didn't want to drift off into that quite yet. I was trying to find out what all the indicator lights blinking at 2 times per second meant.

Thanks!

Scott

 

[sbosecker]

Is there not enough load? LEDs reduced power load sometimes can not be enough for the dimmer to work.

Specracer,

The load is about 80 watts. This dimmer is designed for LED, CFL & "normal" lights.

As mentioned in the original post, this dimmer worked fine for about a month. I also installed the same exact setup with the same exact lamps in 2 other locations in my house at about the same time. One earlier and one later. The other two locations continue to work fine.

I'm trying to see if anyone knows what all-the-indicator-lights-blinking-at-2-blinks-per-second means.


Best regards,

Scott

 

[sbosecker]

I think I would start by replacing the LEDs to narrow down the problem. If the old lights work fine, it would be a pretty good indication that the LED's aren't compatible with that dimmer.

You may have a Magnetic Low Frequency (MLV) dimmer when you really need a Electronic Low Frequency (ELV) dimmer

Git,

As noted in the original post, this same identical setup is working fine in two other locations in my home.

Troubleshooting...

The following is how I remember doing it. My memory may be incorrect as I have tried quite a few things without taking notes. I did all this and then thought it would be useful to know what the blinking indicator lights meant.


I initially tried removing the 4 LED lamps and replaced them with the 4 original 120 watt incandescent bulbs.

The dimmer now worked normally.


I took all the incandescent bulbs out and reinstalled the 4 LED lamps.

The dimmer continued to work normally.


...for a while ...maybe 15 minutes.



I then removed one LED lamp and replaced it with an incandescent bulb.

The dimmer now worked normally.



I removed the incandescent bulb and reinstalled the LED lamp. I don't recall if it behaved normally for a while or if it was a blinking from the get-go (with the lamps off!) but at some point I removed that LED Lamp again. With an empty socket the switch stopped blinking.

I left it that way all night expecting it to be blinking this morning. It wasn't blinking.


I installed the LED lamp into the empty socket and the switch started blinking again.

I then moved to a different socket and removed a different LED Lamp. The switch stopped blinking and would operate correctly.

More installing and uninstalling in each of the remaining 2 sockets followed.

The pattern seems to be - and I'd really need to methodically redo and document all of the above to be sure - the switch will operate normally:

1. With 3 LED's installed and an empty socket.
2. With 3 LED's installed and a incandescent lamp.

This behavior is independent of a particular LED Lamp or position. I have tried removing each LED Lamp individually from each socket and the behavior stays the same.


Just a few minutes ago I had the following setup.

3 LED lamps and one incandescent bulb. Lamps & bulb all off. The switch's indicator lights were behaving correctly.

With the lamps & bulb unlit, I removed the incandescent bulb. The switch's indicator lights started blinking.

That was different...


The next thing I'm going to try is swapping the insane dimmer out with one of my other known working dimmers.


At this particular moment, I think the current dimmer switch has had a stroke. We had a power outage over the weekend. Perhaps the current dimmer had issues with that.

I'm still wondering what the blinking indicator lights mean.


Best regards,

Scott

 

[cybrdyke]

Disconnect the companion switch to see if that might be the problem. Does the MACL work without the companion?
Replace one of the LED lamps with an incandescent lamp to create some resistance. If this works, change it back to the LED.
Keep trying...
CD

 

[cybrdyke]

One or two more things, and then some info on LED lamps.....
Can you switch the MACL and the MAR position? Maybe you have one on line side and one on load side?...or in a different position than your other two systems.
Also, you're not sharing any neutrals with other circuits are you?

LED lamps are not anything like incandescent lamps. They have lots of tiny electronic parts inside them and so each lamp develops it's own little personality. If you were to compare LED lamps and incandescent lamps on a bench test, the LED lamps would be more inconsistent, lamp to lamp. The fact that you have two systems that work and one that doesn't, shows this.
You would expect that since the lamps work here, then they must work there, and that they must be compatible with the dimmer. Unfortunately, this isn't necessarily true in LED world. As I said before, these lamps are not on Lutron's compatibility list. That means that either they haven't tested them, or that they tested them and found them to be out of compliance. That doesn't mean that you cant put them in a socket and they'll appear to work just fine. It means that on some electrical level, Lutron didn't like the performance of the lamp. So, my first thought is that this is what you are experiencing. You have demonstrated that the dimmer can function normally. You know the lamps work. Getting them to work together is the issue. Again, just because the other two set ups work, doesn't mean the third will. LED land is a weird place, and dimming is still the achilles heel of it. You have so many lamp manufacturers who all make their products slightly different, and you have so many dimmer manufacturers who all make their products slightly different. Then you try to merge those two groups and it becomes a bowl of spaghetti.
Keep trying....you'll figure it out.
CD

 

[alberto]

I have found that Lutron has excellent customer service. I have Lutron switches throughout the house and had one that seemingly was not working and they spent about 45 minutes trying to diagnose it. Still would not work, to they concluded that the switch was bad, and they sent me a replacement without me asking. I later figured out that there was an issue with the wiring upstream of the switch so the switch was fine. I tried to send the replacement one back before I opened it, but they told me to keep it.

You should give them a call, they typically do not have you on hold for more than a few minutes if that and they know their products very well.