Hello everybody. I have a question about removing 2 support poles in the middle of my garage. The garage is detached. It is a 24' x 24' that was built in the 60s.There are 4 steel support posts gong down the center of the garage. One at the front wall, one at the back and 2 in the middle. They are 8' apart. I'm wanting to remove the 2 center posts to open the garage up. I started out looking at lvl beams to span the distance but have started to wonder if the supports are even needed. The roof supports almost look like homemade trusses and the poles in the center are just holding up 2 2"x4"s laid on their side. I'm thinking that a couple 2x4s laid on their side even for an 8' span can't be holding that much weight. I've attached a few pics of the roof. Just looking for a second opinion. I'm thinking that even if a beam is needed it wouldn't have to be huge since it has been held for the last 60 years by a couple 2x4s. Thanks for any help or advice.
LVL beam for garage.
- Thread starter nat22453
- Start date
Im not a structural guy but from the looks of your photo's I suspect that you may be correct- but it depends on the size of your joists and rafters (cant tell from the photo)
I'm going through a similar exercise on my 18x18 garage its framed in a similar manor to yours (joists and rafters are 2x6) and the only reason I need a support beam is because I plan to use the ceiling joisted area as light storage. If I was leaving it open I would not need the beam.
My local lumber yard was able to size the beam for me at no cost through their suppliers engineering dept.
I would suggest you head over to your lumber yard and see what they say.
I'm going through a similar exercise on my 18x18 garage its framed in a similar manor to yours (joists and rafters are 2x6) and the only reason I need a support beam is because I plan to use the ceiling joisted area as light storage. If I was leaving it open I would not need the beam.
My local lumber yard was able to size the beam for me at no cost through their suppliers engineering dept.
I would suggest you head over to your lumber yard and see what they say.
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nadogail
Well-known member
Your local lumber yard is a great source of information. Your local "big box" home center is IMHO, typically a great source of ignorance.
They are most definitely home built trusses. So it's gonna be hard for anyone to give you a straight answer. I would imagine the point loads would be the issue especially with how those supports are attached. Disregard the first part i didn't see the ridge beam at first
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aandpdan
Well-known member
Is that a ridge beam or ridge board?
There really isn't enough information here. What is the nailing pattern on those trusses, what is the spacing, angles, etc.
Ideally, you'd want to talk to a structural engineer. Better to get someone that can give you an accurate answer than it is to have a bunch of opinions.
There really isn't enough information here. What is the nailing pattern on those trusses, what is the spacing, angles, etc.
Ideally, you'd want to talk to a structural engineer. Better to get someone that can give you an accurate answer than it is to have a bunch of opinions.
Chevy-SS
Well-known member
Yeah, this ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I recently went through similar issue and structural engineer saved my ***. We would have overlooked a couple of critical factors, which is easy to do.
txvwnut
Well-known member
A structural engineer is what you need before proceed any further. If you look at the trusses above the improperly installed beam the posts are attached to you will see short doublers attached to the bottom cord. The bottom cord is not one continuous piece of lumber on the trusses and you can see this in the first pic, as soon you as you kick the posts out your gonna have more issues than you want to deal with.
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purplezr2
Well-known member
Looks like the load from the roof deck is being transferred via the two angled board near the center of the bottom cord on each side of the 2x4 that are laying flat. I would say they are carrying load.
I would consult a structural engineer.
I would consult a structural engineer.
matt_i
Well-known member
Even though it seems like the 8ft span with roughly a 4x4 is not doing much, consider that going from 8ft span to 24ft span is a factor of 3x. However the displacement equations generally vary with L^3 so the 3x^3 = 27x.
That means you need 27x more in^4 in the cross section....note that its not in^2 area, its in^4 (no typo) the moment of inertia of the new cross-section.
Another possibility would be to buy actual clearspan engineered trusses which might be a thing if you needed a new roof anyway. But it would be a lot of work to tear the building back to that stage. You might be able to get to the point you could hang drywall and/or have an attic storage space too.
That means you need 27x more in^4 in the cross section....note that its not in^2 area, its in^4 (no typo) the moment of inertia of the new cross-section.
Another possibility would be to buy actual clearspan engineered trusses which might be a thing if you needed a new roof anyway. But it would be a lot of work to tear the building back to that stage. You might be able to get to the point you could hang drywall and/or have an attic storage space too.
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Firebrick43
Well-known member
I can not believe those trusses made 60 years. They are so structurally deficient and will require replacement. The structural members of a truss should all be in the same plane, not off set. And they should have either metal truss mending plates or plywood gussets nailed with hundreds of #6 nails. A few framing nails are not going to cut it.
Here is a home made truss built to stamped plans and nail schedule
View media item 71671
Here is a home made truss built to stamped plans and nail schedule
View media item 71671
Farmall450
Well-known member
Bretny
Well-known member
I'm not seeing any posts in the pics so it's really hard to tell what's going on.
At the very least you should make trusses out of the roof rafters that arnt. Are they 16oc or 24?
At the very least you should make trusses out of the roof rafters that arnt. Are they 16oc or 24?
Chevy-SS
Well-known member
Yeah, I used LVL in my garage and I definitely should have used steel, to get rid of damn column. I can't believe contractor did not suggest this to me when I built garage addition 5 years ago. I know the guy was trying to save me a few bucks, but now I would happily pay a few thousand $$$$$$ to get the support column out of my way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Don't your zoning regulations require a professional to get involved to certify the structural design? Building permit may require it. Think of the liability you have ball parking it if something happens under a future owner.
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Thanks everyone for the replies. Everyone made valid points. A little more information, the ceiling joists and rafter boards are 2x4s (actual size is 2"x4" not 1 1/2" x 3 1/2") and all the center supports are 1x4. The ridge board is a 1x8. Everything is built 24oc. I have no zoning regulations in my area that would even require a permit for this and I understand that it is typical in this situation to hire an engineer. That's how it is done, normally, but my thought process is this, I'm not going to remove the supports and hope for the best, I'm just trying to decide on how best to remove them and carry the load. I contacted an engineer and for the cost of an evaluation I can install a W10x26 steel beam which is complete overkill and be done. I just wanted to have some others weigh in on this situation to see if I was totally off base with my ideas about the original construction or not. I understand that they are not actual trusses but it struck me as odd how similar they were. Thanks again to everyone.