MAC tools ... from Taiwan !

[Ron the Scot]

Just joined the forum. I live and work near Glasgow, Scotland. Great to read the views of the guys on the other side of the Atlantic. Pleased to be part of the tool-nuts community !

I've got a big collection of tools built up over 40 years - have used them professionally and for my hobbies. I used to buy mainly UK tools - mostly Britool. However in recent years I've switched to tools from the USA - mostly Snap On but also a lot of MAC. I buy this expensive stuff because (a) it's great quality, (b) it's lovely, and (c) its MADE IN THE USA.

However, this week I bought a MAC Tools 13 piece star driver (Torx) set. They look great and are in a nice storage box. However, just before I threw away the cardboard outer wrapper I spotted in small print 'Made in Taiwan'. What's that all about?? If I want Taiwan stuff there are plenty of brands in the UK which can supply at half the MAC price. I'm away to think again about buying any of MAC's stuff. A pity.
Ronnie

 

[LGMechanical]

I have that same set. Its actually pretty good. If you want Snap-On, you can spend $300 CDN. Welcome to the forum!

 

[billymade]

Mac seems to be going offshore for allot of their tools now... since purchase by Stanley.

 

[Skin]

if you havent encountered any Snap-On tools made in Asia you either havent bought anything recently or have been lucky. They're all doing it to one extent or another with certain tools.

 

[stricht8]

Welcome! You are not the only one here with this sentiment. A lot of us here refuse to buy MAC tools for that same reason. You have to be a discerning buyer and know what is made where especially when buying MAC. They are no angels at Snap-On either as they have their share of China/Taiwan stuff.

 

[Skin]

A lot of us here refuse to buy MAC tools for that same reason.

You help nothing by boycotting a company that still has production plants here. If you want to be selective about COO thats your perogative but at least support the company by purchasing what is made domestically otherwise the real shame will come when the vast majority of MAC is made out of the US. Send a message and support the locally made tools at least. Dont boycott the entire company. Just ignorant and completely counter productive.

Plus like i said, they all do it to one extent or another.

 

[arkangel06]

mac tools ****


I smile every chance I get to say that

 

[Monte]

return it...

 

[Ron the Scot]

Yeah .... I agree with all of this. When I was young and starting out in the motor trade I always bought British. There were some high quality brands - Britool, Gordon and Bedford to name a few. Snap on only started selling tools in Scotland around that time and there were very few agents / vans here. However we soon had a huge influx of cheaper tools from Japan, then Taiwan, then China. There are now almost no British manufacturers of mechanic's tools left.
Over the years I've bought quite a lot of stuff from the far east. I've been careful what I buy and I have to say that most of it is very good indeed. I've got some Japanese tools which have lasted over 30 years. It's sold across here under various brand names including Sealey, Draper, Teng, Kamasa and Halfords. They all sell some good tools - Halfords stuff has a particularly high reputation for quality combined with sensible pricing.
Don't get me wrong - I don't undervalue the quality of much of the stuff from the far east. It's just a pity that the manufacturing base of your prime brands in the States may be gradually sliding away from you - just like it did here.
Ronnnie

 

[Shadowdog500]

I just bought a Mac double flair tool and it says Made in Taiwan on the back of the box as well. I was mildly annoyed because I didn't notice until well after I bought it. For some reason I cant seem to make a straight flair on the darn thing, even though I can on a friends Snap On one that appears to be identical. Can you return a Mac tool for a refund, or do you have to get another one of the same tool? I've never returned anything to a tool truck for a refund.

Chris

 

[Fedwrench]

Welcome to the board!!!
More and more of Mac's hardline is imported from Taiwan and other places such as Italy for the round head 72 tooth Facom lookalike ratchets. A Mac rep will tell you that the tools are made to Mac's ridgid specifications and that may be true but, mac goes out of its way at times using only small print on packaging (that's usually thrown away) to say where a tool is made.
Just because a tool is imported doesn't automaticaly mean the tool is ****. Imported tools have judged like all other tools on a individual basis for quaility, durability, and performance. There are many threads here about various tools from all over too include the USA, sucking. As for paying truck prices for an imported tool, that's up to the individual user. Remember truck prices are built on two principals, 1. they come to you, and 2. you can earn money using the tool as you make weekly payments paying for it.
As others have said, all of the tool trucks hawk imported tools to a degree some more than others. Again welcome to the forum,

 

[Ron the Scot]

Thanks Fedwrench. I agree with everything you have said. I've noticed that a few Snap On items I have bought recently were made in China. A lot of Chinese stuff is very good - and improving as time goes on. Fantastic value too under other brand names.
It's great to be on the Forum. We've got nothing quite like it here in the UK (unless I've missed something - can't rule that out). Nearest we have to Garage Journal is a very good website run in England by Car Mechanics magazine. It gives a pretty good view of the motor mechanic scene in the UK and is also used a lot by keen hobby mechanics. Worth a visit if you google Car Mechanics Magazine. The tool brands they talk about differ quitre a bit from USA - no HF, SK Craftsman etc - although SO features quite a bit as that is the trade standard now.
Thanks for the welcome to the board. I'm really enjoying finding out about guys with my interests across the big pond and elsewhere. It can be lonely here in the wilds of Scotland !
Ronnie

 

[Skin]

1. I can't think of anyone who would would willingly (or knowingly) pay premium prices for Asian made tools
2. Simple put - how else will these companies learn. If we choose not to purchase their products, maybe, and I doubt it, they'll get to that conclusion a little faster. To those companies that hold an Asian made tool in one hand, while attempting to hold our flag up high in the other, I say to them, you cannot have both.

So you purchase no tools from anyone then correct?

All i'm saying is if you want to be 'do or die' with that USA stamp then go for it, but shunning the entire company that still produces American tools is a piss poor way of doing it. They're catering to folks like you by still making what they do here, so buy it. When you dont buy it and people buy their cheap imports that causes, you guessed it, more outsourcing!

They evaluate numbers before statistics, remember that. If their largest profit margins are from imports, they will cater to that market, plain and simple. And you, by buying nothing, helps the situation not at all. I promise you no large cooperation would look at profit growth and dump their most profitable areas of the company because Joe Wrenchalot may or may not be buying tools due to their standings on outsourcing.

 

[stricht8]

You help nothing by boycotting a company that still has production plants here. If you want to be selective about COO thats your perogative but at least support the company by purchasing what is made domestically otherwise the real shame will come when the vast majority of MAC is made out of the US. Send a message and support the locally made tools at least. Dont boycott the entire company. Just ignorant and completely counter productive.

Plus like i said, they all do it to one extent or another.

Please do not jump to conclusions my friend. I said that a lot of us here refuse to buy MAC tools but I was using "us" collectively. I personally own and still purchase MAC tools! I prefer their dealers who are a lot friendlier! I was simply expressing the sentiment of many members of this list

 

[quneur]

I know outsourcing is a hot subject, but please refrain from belittling or degragatory comments when responding to posts. It's their money that they've earned and may spend it however they like. Respect it. If the person gives reasons and you see a flaw in his logic, debate the reasons and don't use degratory comments, as an example, "Only a stupid person would...", "I see your education limits your ability to make a sound judgement.."

 

[benjamming]

if you havent encountered any Snap-On tools made in Asia you either havent bought anything recently or have been lucky. They're all doing it to one extent or another with certain tools.

I'm not aware of Wright Tools doing this.

 

[Skin]

I'm not aware of Wright Tools doing this.

and they may be one of the few but they are also safe from being owned by a large cooperation. A rarity if you will.

 

[toolnut]

Welcome to the forum! I stopped purchasing Mac tools when they stopped putting the country of origin on there hand tools. I have some Stanley and other brand metal working hammers made in England that are great. Not sure what the still made in England brand hammers are available but you may know. Thanks.

 

[stricht8]

Welcome to the forum! I stopped purchasing Mac tools when they stopped putting the country of origin on there hand tools. I have some Stanley and other brand metal working hammers made in England that are great. Not sure what the still made in England brand hammers are available but you may know. Thanks.

I'm pretty sure that Sykes-Pickavant are made in England. US Industrial Tool and Supply used to sell them.

 

[Ron the Scot]

That's right. Sykes Pickavant are a long-established British company based in Staffordshire, England. They now make specialist tools for the automotive industry - although they used to do the full range of everyday stuff - screwdrivers, wrenches (or spanners as we call them in Scotland), sockets etc. Now they seem to specialise in diagnostic equipment etc. Until recently they were part of Stanley / Facom / Mac but they have now gone independent again. They make top quality gear.

 

[Ron the Scot]

Hi Toolnut - thanks for the welcome - much appreciated.
Yes, Stanley is probably the biggest British maker of hammers. However they are now a huge multi-national and will source their products from all over the place. Spear and Jackson is another English manaufacturer which still volume-produces hammers. The firm is based in Sheffield, England and makes a wide range of tools - all of high quality. It's a long-established brand here and incorporates James Neill tools - an old UK brand which includes Eclipse hacksaws and Moore and Wright precision measuring tools (micrometers etc).
The other big UK manufacturer of hammers in Thor. They are based in Birmingham, England and specialise in soft-faced mallets - used widely in the motor industry and metal-bashing trades. The hammers are faced with plastic, copper, aluminium or hide, depending on what you need. This is top quality stuff.
Sykes Pickavant - based in Staffordshire, England - used to make excellent quality panel-beating hammers, dollys etc. I'm not sure if they still make this range. It used to be the trade standard before Snap On came in.
Ronnie

 

[vssjim]

Welcome to the board!!!
More and more of Mac's hardline is imported from Taiwan and other places such as Italy for the round head 72 tooth Facom lookalike ratchets. A Mac rep will tell you that the tools are made to Mac's ridgid specifications and that may be true but, mac goes out of its way at times using only small print on packaging (that's usually thrown away) to say where a tool is made.
Just because a tool is imported doesn't automaticaly mean the tool is ****. Imported tools have judged like all other tools on a individual basis for quaility, durability, and performance. There are many threads here about various tools from all over too include the USA, sucking. As for paying truck prices for an imported tool, that's up to the individual user. Remember truck prices are built on two principals, 1. they come to you, and 2. you can earn money using the tool as you make weekly payments paying for it.
As others have said, all of the tool trucks hawk imported tools to a degree some more than others. Again welcome to the forum,

The ratchet that was made in Italy was a USAG tool. Facom bought USAG before Stanley bought Facom. USAG tools and BETA tools to me are almost clones of each other.

 

[vssjim]

Sykes Pickavant - based in Staffordshire, England - used to make excellent quality panel-beating hammers, dollys etc. I'm not sure if they still make this range. It used to be the trade standard before Snap On came in.
Ronnie[/QUOTE]

Yes Sykes Pickavant still make body repair tools in ENGLAND

 

[stricht8]

I own a Sykes pickavant dolly and slapping file and a Thor rawhile hammer. Very nice stuff. Funny thing is I got the Thor hammer at an Ace hardware store and paid through the nose for that thing! The SP dolly was very nicely polished. I bought that at US industrial tool and supply about 6 years ago.

 

[toolnut]

Hi Toolnut - thanks for the welcome - much appreciated.
Yes, Stanley is probably the biggest British maker of hammers. However they are now a huge multi-national and will source their products from all over the place. Spear and Jackson is another English manaufacturer which still volume-produces hammers. The firm is based in Sheffield, England and makes a wide range of tools - all of high quality. It's a long-established brand here and incorporates James Neill tools - an old UK brand which includes Eclipse hacksaws and Moore and Wright precision measuring tools (micrometers etc).
The other big UK manufacturer of hammers in Thor. They are based in Birmingham, England and specialise in soft-faced mallets - used widely in the motor industry and metal-bashing trades. The hammers are faced with plastic, copper, aluminium or hide, depending on what you need. This is top quality stuff.
Sykes Pickavant - based in Staffordshire, England - used to make excellent quality panel-beating hammers, dollys etc. I'm not sure if they still make this range. It used to be the trade standard before Snap On came in.
Ronnie

Excellent - thanks. I looked at the other ones I have and they are Spear and Jackson cross peens in different sizes. This is great info and will help in my search for more.

 

[vssjim]

So you purchase no tools from anyone then correct?

All i'm saying is if you want to be 'do or die' with that USA stamp then go for it, but shunning the entire company that still produces American tools is a piss poor way of doing it. They're catering to folks like you by still making what they do here, so buy it. When you dont buy it and people buy their cheap imports that causes, you guessed it, more outsourcing!

They evaluate numbers before statistics, remember that. If their largest profit margins are from imports, they will cater to that market, plain and simple. And you, by buying nothing, helps the situation not at all. I promise you no large cooperation would look at profit growth and dump their most profitable areas of the company because Joe Wrenchalot may or may not be buying tools due to their standings on outsourcing.

The points I make
1 I get mad about a company outsourcing tool production to a low
cost country then still charging US pricing or higher for the same item.
If I want a Taiwan to at a fair price you can find lots of them like Toptul
but the company that is trying to slick you gets me pissed

2 You can also go both ways on the above statement about a company outsourcing for profits, if sales don't show people care about COO they may increase outsourcing but if sales fall??? If the stuff don't sell do you outsource more or less??

 

[Kent Skinner]

1. I can't think of anyone who would would willingly (or knowingly) pay premium prices for Asian made tools

Mitutoyu makes some of the best machinists tools out there. I know many, many machinists who pay a premium for their gear.

 

[Merkava_4]

Is this the set here?

I'm just guessing because the OP didn't post a part number...

 

[Ron the Scot]

Yes - that's the set - and very nice it is too. Industrial Mech is correct - the original point I was making was that I was paying a premium price for tools from the USA - as I thought - but the disposable cardboard wrapper had Made in Taiwan in really small print. A lot of Taiwan stuff available here in the UK is perfectly good quality and up to the job. It's marketed under reputable British and European brand names such as Draper and Sealey. However they are up-front about where it comes from and the prices are that much lower to reflect this. I've got no problem with that approach and I have used loads of their tools for years. But if Snap-on and Mac are sourcing products from Asia and still charging full USA type prices for them I'm not sure I want to pay that price just for the name when I can get similar stuff over here for a whole lot less. Incidentally, I don't mind what Snap-on do with their Blue Point range because it is cheaper but still good quality. I've got a lot of BP tools and they serve me well.
I am beginning to think this debate could go on forever without a conclusion. The fact is that we now live in a global market place and if companies are to survive they have to keep adjusting to match the global situation. We've lost almost all of the big names in British tool manufacture to overseas competition. A great shame but, hey, what can you do? If other countries can produce good quality functional tools which get the job done at a fraction of the price, people will want to buy them.
Ronnie

 

[a390st]

I haven't been a fan of new Mac Tools for some time. They closed the building in Washington CH where people I was friends with worked. They crapped on their dealers. Now they are closing the plant in Sabina. The Mac Tools I used to be loyal to and like is no more. I'm not saying I wouldn't buy anything from them, but Stanley hasn't done them any favors for me.

 

[vssjim]

Mitutoyu makes some of the best machinists tools out there. I know many, many machinists who pay a premium for their gear.

For some reason I think its safe to say that when we speak of the old switcheroo deal we are speaking of China or Taiwan as nobody here says Mitutoyu is a cheap brand same can be said for Koken etc. That was not the direction we were going with this at all.

 

[Merkava_4]

GEARWRENCH version here -
http://www.tooltopia.com/gearwrench-80723.aspx

MAC version here -
http://www.mactools.com/Product/tabid/120/productid/320203/variantid/310962/Default.aspx

 

[Ron the Scot]

Hmmm....... certainly looks like the same set under a different brand name - and about half the price that Mac is charging. If it is the exact same quality I think this proves the point that I was making in the first post - ie. why pay the price of a premium brand when the product is from a much cheaper source and available elsewhere at the low price. Mac tools - and maybe Snap On too - need to be careful what they are doing or they could lose a big chunk of their loyal customer base.
Ronnie

 

[stricht8]

Hmmm....... certainly looks like the same set under a different brand name - and about half the price that Mac is charging. If it is the exact same quality I think this proves the point that I was making in the first post - ie. why pay the price of a premium brand when the product is from a much cheaper source and available elsewhere at the low price. Mac tools - and maybe Snap On too - need to be careful what they are doing or they could lose a big chunk of their loyal customer base.
Ronnie

I agree. I've learned to become very selective when I walk onto a tool truck. I always ask multiple times where the tool is made. SO, MAC, Matco, Cornwell are all playing the same game. If you buy vintage you will never go wrong!

 

[rigldbrg]

How disappointing. I just received a ratcheting screwdriver that I ordered from Mac Tools and was surprised to see a "made in Taiwan" tag fall out of the box. I wish I would have seen this thread before ordering.

Is Channellock still made exclusively in the US? I saw someone posted recently that everything other than pliers were made overseas, but their website touts "made in the USA." Does anyone know for sure what their story is?

 

[Jamez]

True they are made in Taiwan, but I use all my 3/8 drive once in my cordless impact every day and haven't broken one yet.

1/2 the cost of SO, and about the same price as all the local brands that had lifetime warranties.

 

[RedFordTruck]

How disappointing. I just received a ratcheting screwdriver that I ordered from Mac Tools and was surprised to see a "made in Taiwan" tag fall out of the box. I wish I would have seen this thread before ordering.

Is Channellock still made exclusively in the US? I saw someone posted recently that everything other than pliers were made overseas, but their website touts "made in the USA." Does anyone know for sure what their story is?

All of Channellock pliers are Made in the USA. In fact they recently brought production of their Code blue grips from China BACK to the USA made by a plastic company in Meadville, PA!

However they source their Screwdrivers from a 3rd party in China, and their adjustable wrenches are from Spain. (Adjustables are top notch though)

 

[RedFordTruck]

As far as the MAC Torx sockets being Taiwan... If I want to buy Taiwan made I will buy Kobalt from Lowes that have the same warranty and cost a shitload less.

 

[Jamez]

just realized this is a 2 1/2 year old thread.... why dig it up?

 

[jabberwoki]

You know what mate take it back a tell them to stick up their ****! you can buy ceap **** anywhere but you don`t need to pay top $ for it.