Machete Handle

[MichaelBikel]

I have a machete that I want to make a new handle for. I currently have some 1/4" steel round stock that I intend to use as pins to help secure the handle. I am wondering what the appropriate size hole is for the pins to fit tight. FYI the pins in the picture are the old ones that have been misplaced so this is why I'm using 1/4" rs. Does anyone have any insight on this?
Thanks
-Mike

Here is a photo just to give you an idea of what i'm working with
DSC05040 by MichaelBikel, on Flickr

DSC05052 by MichaelBikel, on Flickr

 

[aggierailroad]

If you've got a caliper or micrometer you can measure your 1/4" rod. Plan for 0.001"-0.003" undersized for a Class IV fit (hand press in).

You don't want it too tight or it will split the handle material, especially if you plan on peening the ends over.

 

[MichaelBikel]

If you've got a caliper or micrometer you can measure your 1/4" rod. Plan for 0.001"-0.003" undersized for a Class IV fit (hand press in).

You don't want it too tight or it will split the handle material, especially if you plan on peening the ends over.

Will I be able to get away with using a standard sized bit from home depot or would I have to special order something? I really didn't want to end up paying a ton for tools/parts, e.g. my calipers are harbor freight and the round stock I have is from home depot, same with my drill bits.

I have never heard of a "class IV fit" so this is new to me. Looking at this chart leaves me with some questions: http://www.engineersedge.com/class_iv.htm
I see a .250 size hole, but no option for a .250 size shaft with smaller hole. Is this just the standard way of accomplishing a class IV fit?

After taking a look at this chart it is sounding like I am going to need to upgrade my bits and calipers and perhaps do a bit of reading?

 

[Gotcha640]

I would drill a 1/4 inch hole, and if necessary, sand the rod to fit. You absolutely do not need to measure thousandths to pin a handle on.

I would also use brass, much easier to peen tight. Cut just a little long and sand down.

If it were mine, I would also remove the pinky breaker while I was at it.

 

[jeffg]

Seconded on brass over steel

 

[Weekend_warrior]

A cool video on it.... He starts the handle at about 6 minutes.....

He does a lot of cool stuff.

 

[MichaelBikel]

My only issue with the steel rod I currently have is that it measures as .24" and i believe 6.1 mm. My 1/4" drill bit also measures in at .24", however it comes in at 6.2mm. So either I should upgrade my HF calipers to something more reliable or I should be using a more precise round stock/ drill bit combo I guess.

Where would you guys suggest getting brass round stock from? Is there a specific hardness or any other specs I should go for?

Lastly, how important is it to remove the "pinky breaker"? I have already formed the scales and don't really want to go back to alter the tang/scales. I guess it would be something to do if I order brass pins and have to wait...

 

[jimgood]

You can get brass rod from onlinemetals.com. Direct link: http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?id=80&step=2&top_cat=79

 

[Craptain]

Your HF calipers are fine for this. You don't really care about the actual sizes just the sizes relative to each other. The Pinky breaker is a personal choice and my choice would be to leave it but YMMV on this. On the brass you will be buying, or acquiring more than you need. So test a sample of it for hardness ie how well it peens. Then anneal it if needed.

 

[MichaelBikel]

You can get brass rod from onlinemetals.com. Direct link: http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?id=80&step=2&top_cat=79

Thanks for the link Jim, I was literally just looking at some on McMaster
http://www.mcmaster.com/#8953k124/=13usd2p
I see that both of these examples are 1/2 hard, but what does that mean? Also in the link you provided they don't give tolerances but it is less expensive, any insight on that?
Lastly I guess the real question that started all of this that I am now able to ask is this: if I am using a true 1/4" rod as my pin (.25000) what size drill bit should I use? 15/64 then sand to fit? I ask not because I am lazy and can't figure it out, I am more interested in knowing if there is a way to keep it consistent. For example, sanding a rod doesn't really mean circumference is going to be symmetrical. But using a special drill bit between 15/64 and 1/4" that will allow the pin to fit snug will allow me to keep all holes a consistent size.
Looking at a chart the, closest fit seems to be a size d drill bit (.2460") for a .2500 rod. This is the easiest solution I can think of. What do you guys think about that?

 

[kbs2244]

Look for some solid rivets.
Copper or brass.
A big box should have them.
The package will have install directions, including hole sizes.

 

[zkling]

So knife handle pins aren't quite as simple as they may appear. As mentioned those were peended initially. Today many are going to epoxy with a slight gap between the pin and scale material for epoxy to flow into, some even use fluted pins. You really don't want the pins to be very tight in the scale holes, especially if you want to peen them as well, you could end up with cracks, humidity and temperate driven even depending on what material you use. Steel rod will be fine, but as mentioned copper and brass will be easier to peen and look better. They also make "headless" screw/tube nuts that you can install and then grind the head off for that pin look. Called corby rivets.

 

[Gotcha640]

Is this a specially valuable (sentimental or otherwise) machete? Do you have access to a pawn shop or harbor freight or other cheap knife or machete?

I would suggest you just do one and see what happens. That will answer most of your questions, and could be done in about an hour (possibly including 40 minutes to drive to the store and buy the cheap machete).

 

[ilovevocs]

So knife handle pins aren't quite as simple as they may appear. As mentioned those were peended initially. Today many are going to epoxy with a slight gap between the pin and scale material for epoxy to flow into, some even use fluted pins. You really don't want the pins to be very tight in the scale holes, especially if you want to peen them as well, you could end up with cracks, humidity and temperate driven even depending on what material you use. Steel rod will be fine, but as mentioned copper and brass will be easier to peen and look better. They also make "headless" screw/tube nuts that you can install and then grind the head off for that pin look. Called corby rivets.

Corby rivets.... Zkling, I learned something new today, thank you. Now to find a small project to use them on.

 

[MichaelBikel]

Yeah I was reading up on some forums and saw there are all different types of pins. My search led me to this: http://usaknifemaker.com/knife-handle-parts/handle-hardware/corbys-rivets-loveless-others.html

Quite a range of pins to choose from. But now I am a little confused, I'm hearing snug fit from some and not so snug from others. Which is it guys? I want to do this thing right!

 

[Amitygravel]

Don't over think it Michael.

Whatever diameter pin you use , use the same diameter drill bit.
Whatever type of epoxy your accustomed to using will be fine.
Find a place that carries K&S products (Hobby Lobby , Do-It-Best ) and look through the different materials. Maybe even go with brass tubing.
If the pins are a little tight put them in your drill and scrub em down with sandpaper til they slip in.
You don't have to get carried away with peening either when using epoxy.
Show us when you're done too !

 

[MichaelBikel]

Don't over think it Michael.

Whatever diameter pin you use , use the same diameter drill bit.
Whatever type of epoxy your accustomed to using will be fine.
Find a place that carries K&S products (Hobby Lobby , Do-It-Best ) and look throw the different materials. Maybe even go with brass tubing.
If the pins are a little tight put them in your drill and scrub em down with sandpaper til they slip in.
You don't have to get carried away with peening either when using epoxy.
Show us when your done too !

Thanks for the info! Are those knives in the picture you posted made by yourself? They are all really nice!

The reason I am asking so many questions and being so **** about this stuff is that I would really like to get it right the first time. Obviously as a first timer this most likely won't happen, but I'm also getting some good insight with everyones posts. The entire reason I assumed the pins had to be tight or snug was because I saw a fellow on youtube (white bone knives) whose pins had to be pulled out with vice grips if he was removing them prior to dry fitting his scales...

about 5 minutes 10 seconds in

 

[Amitygravel]

Michael.

Thanks those are some that I did a couple of years ago. Didn't have any current stuff in my phone when I posted.

There are as many different ways to do this as there are makers.
Just do what works best for you.
I use 5 minute epoxy when I apply handle slabs and I have contoured the front of the scales before hand.
That means dry fitting several times beffore glue up so I don't want to fight pins that are tight.
Todays adhesives I feel do most of the holding and pins are just a secondary and even decorative component.
You would really have to hammer the hell out of a handle to loosen it and the material would most likely crack and spall a big chunk out before properly applied adhesives would let go. Micarta , G-10 and Carbon Fiber would be some of the few that could take that kind of beating.

You get this project done , you'll be looking for your next cutlery project !

 

[MichaelBikel]

Got my brass rod in the mail a few days ago, drilled a 1/4" hole in some flat stock to test it and it fit snug. I guess my problem was the round stock I was using from Home Depot, good to know. Thanks to everyone for the help, hopefully I will get some time to fit the scales and shape the handle.

 

[aggierailroad]

Sorry I never answered your question - but you did right. The wobble in the drill chuck will give you the clearance for a decent rod to use as a pin. Brass is the way to go for making "rivets". If it loosens up next year, just bring out the peening hammer and tap it around a few more times.

Your next trick will be to get the length close - don't make it say, 1/4" too long and try to peen all that metal over. It won't go, or it will crack or it will bust your scales. Leave just a tiny bit and work the metal around with your smallest ball been hammer. Try it on a scrap and you'll quickly see.

Good luck!

 

[pigpen60]

You could always just use epoxy and recast inplace the broken part and not have to deal with pins and such.

 

[MichaelBikel]

Got a little carried away with a knife project, put the machete scales on hold. Got it for a nickel at a tag sale, figured it would be a good way to learn a little about profiling a knife. Thinner than I would like and probably not practical but fun none the less.
IMG_2611 by MichaelBikel, on Flickr IMG_2615 by MichaelBikel, on Flickr IMG_2701 by MichaelBikel, on Flickr IMG_2710 by MichaelBikel, on Flickr
Going to bring the palm swell in, its a little aggressive. Also may have some free walnut for a handle, would anyone suggest using or avoiding this?