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Machine ratchet mechanism

Craftsman C-series

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Should I source a local machine shop to complete a rare Craftsman ratchet or would it be totally cost prohibitive? I have a complete ratchet for comparison and didn’t know with today’s technology if the parts could be scanned in and relatively easy to reproduce? I’ve attached a pick so you can see what I am talking about. The two middle ratchets are the ones in question.
 

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NEK

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I am sure someone could mill the parts, its all what the ratchet is worth compleated, and what you are willing to pay.
 

bored350

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Before your questions can be answered, you need to define a few parameters. What do you view as cost prohibitive? Do you want parts that are as functional and strong as the original or just able to mimic the aesthetic of the original? Anything is possible on e you decide what you want to commit to.

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cmandp

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You would have to tell us what would be cost prohibitive to you.

I would guess on the low end it would be a few hundred bucks to get that done but I could see $500 or more. You have at least 4 separate machined parts (most with at least 2 setups) and a spring that I can see.

Price also depends on who does the reverse engineering. Scanning is not a one step quick and simple process. Scanning is great for complex shapes but is only part of the process. You would then have to recreate the parts in CAD (usually using the scan as a reference), draw and dimension them so that they work together.

Those parts would be measured and someone would make drawings with appropriate tolerances based on your whole ratchet, your partial ratchet and experience. If you can make drawings you would probably save some money (but you would take the responsibly for the parts not fitting or working properly). Otherwise the machine shop that you hire is going to have to do it and you will pay for that time.

I hope that did not sound condescending, I was hoping to be informative so you can decide what to do next.
 

gorilla

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You would have to tell us what would be cost prohibitive to you.

I would guess on the low end it would be a few hundred bucks to get that done but I could see $500 or more. You have at least 4 separate machined parts (most with at least 2 setups) and a spring that I can see.

Price also depends on who does the reverse engineering. Scanning is not a one step quick and simple process. Scanning is great for complex shapes but is only part of the process. You would then have to recreate the parts in CAD (usually using the scan as a reference), draw and dimension them so that they work together.

Those parts would be measured and someone would make drawings with appropriate tolerances based on your whole ratchet, your partial ratchet and experience. If you can make drawings you would probably save some money (but you would take the responsibly for the parts not fitting or working properly). Otherwise the machine shop that you hire is going to have to do it and you will pay for that time.

I hope that did not sound condescending, I was hoping to be informative so you can decide what to do next.

I don't know what machine shop time costs in your area but here in NORCAL it's over $100.00 an hour. Even if you scan and CNC the outside features of that ratchet you will need some unusual tooling to broach the splines. A Bridgeport with a slotter attachment and some fixturing comes to mind. Considering all the parts needed I think you would be closer to 25 hours.
 

bored350

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If OP has the ability to draw and dimension in 3D, having the parts printed may be cost effective.

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larry_g

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Is it possible to find something close that could have a simple modification done to it? Can you show us the pieces that you need made from the sample ratchet?

lg
no neat sig line
 
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matt_i

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Youre going to think I'm loco but I'd put in 40hrs at $100/hr for each ratchet if you want design + manufacture down to the engraved details, black oxide finish, and the heat treated/hardened parts that make it fully functional.
 

gte718p

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If you can design the parts yourself, there are quite a few places you can send the part off to have them made for a sudo reasonable price. Modern manufacturing is pretty cool. You can have someone #d print and pour the rough castings relatively cheap. You still have to finish machine and heat treat them.

I have done projects like this before. Based on my experience, your will vary by location. If you can't do the CAD work yourself, I would say 3-4 hours by a competent designer ~$60-$80 and hour. Plus 10-15 hours of machinist time (if made from stock) at $100-$120 and hour.

Honestly small independent machinists are getting hard to find. Most shops are going to want larger jobs or repeat customers. I think natt_i is little high but not much. I doubt you would find anyone asking less the $2k.
 
OP
C

Craftsman C-series

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Wow. Thank you all for your input. I totally respect the work of a good machinist and know their time and skill is valuable. Like 3bay said, I will appreciate this partial ratchet for what it is for the cost is just too prohibitive. Have a great night.
 

bored350

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Like 3bay said, I will appreciate this partial ratchet for what it is for the cost is just too prohibitive. Have a great night.

You never did say what you felt a reasonable cost to be for it to be worth it to you or the intentions of the final product?



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matt_i

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Maybe I read this wrong...my initial impression was you wanted the whole thing duplicated from solid, all of the parts, as a full working assembly.

After I zoomed in I'm thinking you have the "body" meaning the handle and the internal tooth profile but need the internal rotating piece plus the ratcheting tooth.

I think it would be less than my other estimate, I'd WAG $800 if you have drawings and $1200 if you don't. The tricky part would be (guessing here) the ball-bearing detent for the square drive. Some appear to be swaged into a blind hole requiring some special tooling. Also not sure how it changes direction and what that involves relative to mods to the existing handle.
 

laser3kw

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wire EDM can get you some great parts that are hardened to spec. Details <.001" are generally not a problem.
But, as others mention someone has to develop the "print".
 

Monza Harry

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I am thinking there is another approach available to you. Start out with some O-1 material soft take your time and cut as close as you can with your hacksaw. (I try and teach my apprentices how to use one very early, and when they can cut a straight line I tell them they are in the 1% of the population that can, remember don't force the blade, and use a sharp blade, and it only cuts forward, LIFT on the back stroke!] then you can using a file bring it home. Again the file only cuts forward, Lift on the back stroke. This will be an incredibly slow process, but should create a real sense of pride when finished! The ball detent is a little more complex in production, but drill the hole undersized and again with a lot of patients raise an edge by peening then drill the right size hole to depth, [drill press or by hand with an electric/air drill motor] Heat treat the pieces with your torch and dunk in a medium sized can of oil.
There are special oils that won't flash [Waste oil from your vehicle maintenance (mixed is good too) will do the job with some precautions] but you will be using tongs and gloves, make sure it will not overflow especially while on fire! Duh! I know but I am really telling you what can and frequently does happen. Don't be greedy do one piece at a time and let the oil cool all the way down between parts.
Your pieces should be at or near 60Rc [Hard as #ell] The black colour will need to be removed so you can now heat the pieces to a real light straw colour and let cool SLOWLY! [this will mean with parts this small, put them in your self cleaning oven immediately after a clean cycle and let them sit in the cooling oven, or place them on a small hot plate and dial it down over about 15 minutes while covered] This should land you in the low 50's hard but not very brittle. The raised section around your ball detent hole you should heat this up with a little torch [micro torch] and let this cool this should soften this to the point that you should be able to peen this back and capture the ball. You will need to create a couple of punches for this one with a countersink to push your standing burr over to edge and then a centre punch with a relief for the ball to create the factory look/function. You should practice with some small scraps, as that detent may require two or more "Draws" to get soft enough to not crack and break off. that edge will cool very quickly and may not soften much with each heat cool cycle. this will cost you about fifty$ in material and about 50-100 hrs of your time. I would scour eBay/C-list for a parts unit myself now but I have done this [my unicorn projects not a ratchet] when time was plentiful and money not so much. Hopefully some metallurgist or heat treater here will interject some numbers that you can use with a now available I R Thermometer, I was taught this with a person showing me the colours, so internet translation may be harder to grasp. Harry P.S. you can use the appropriate machine tools you may have access to.
 
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