Made in China

[Aberdale]

Remember when the best tools were made in the USA? Well, there was a time when American tools didn't measure up to the quality of English and German tools. It was before most of us were born so most of us can't remember.

I can remember when "Made in Japan" used to signify poor quality. Over the past few years on this forum, I've read many responses that praise tools made in Japan and Taiwan as very good quality. And they're right.

It just seems to me that the time is near where many of us will realize that "Made in China" will become acceptable and even considered good quality. Any recent trip to HF will prove that the quality has been improving over the years. Soon, we will all complain about tools made in Vietnam, Pakistan, and Bangladesh as China becomes too expensive.

What comes around goes around.

 

[zendriver]

40 years ago, China was still in the stone age. They have come a long way in a pretty short amount of time.

US manufacturing has come a long way since, also, but we can't compete as easily, because of the difference of labors costs.

That's life. Industry likes lower labor costs. They always have.

48 years ago, We put a man on the moon and at the time, that was a pretty big deal. Are we going to sit and cry, if China decides to do their own "moon shot"?

Who cares?

 

[RCsGarage]

Who cares?

Yawn.

 

[anndel]

It's a cycle, one day Made in China will be the world standard and others will be junk.

 

[The Fall]

40 years ago, China was still in the stone age. They have come a long way in a pretty short amount of time.

US manufacturing has come a long way since, also, but we can't compete as easily, because of the difference of labors costs.

That's life. Industry likes lower labor costs. They always have.

48 years ago, We put a man on the moon and at the time, that was a pretty big deal. Are we going to sit and cry, if China decides to do their own "moon shot"?

Who cares?

Sums it up well. The levels of worker exploitation in China are gulag-like in certain areas. It'll be a long time before the cost of Chinese tools gets "too high."

 

[PeterT]

Most people aren't looking for quality,, the cheaper the better. Use it and abuse it,, get a few uses from it and buy a new one. I don't work among mechanics, but I work in engineering and most of my co-workers wouldn't know which end of a wrench to use to pull off the oil plug.
I don't see why the chinese tools would improve much, because most of the customers don't want to pay for much more than the junk they get today.

 

[Mojave888]

I don't get why HF (and other US branded Chinese tools) are considered perfectly good but Craftsman's Chinese tools are called junk and garbage. I know it's sad to see Cman production go overseas, but to call their products junk and HF's OK seems hypocritical. I would buy a Chinese Craftsman over a Pittsburgh anytime. Cman at least was once US made and I would figure they would hold the new manufacturer to a higher standard than a company that was born in the land of (formerly) shoddy workmanship. JMHO.

 

[1950mercury]

Remember when the best tools were made in the USA? Well, there was a time when American tools didn't measure up to the quality of English and German tools. It was before most of us were born so most of us can't remember.

I can remember when "Made in Japan" used to signify poor quality. Over the past few years on this forum, I've read many responses that praise tools made in Japan and Taiwan as very good quality. And they're right.

It just seems to me that the time is near where many of us will realize that "Made in China" will become acceptable and even considered good quality. Any recent trip to HF will prove that the quality has been improving over the years. Soon, we will all complain about tools made in Vietnam, Pakistan, and Bangladesh as China becomes too expensive.

What comes around goes around.

Most of the decent hf tools are made in Taiwan. Not China.

 

[SweetD]

Most people aren't looking for quality,, the cheaper the better. Use it and abuse it,, get a few uses from it and buy a new one. I don't work among mechanics, but I work in engineering and most of my co-workers wouldn't know which end of a wrench to use to pull off the oil plug.
I don't see why the chinese tools would improve much, because most of the customers don't want to pay for much more than the junk they get today.

I agree. Most of us here on GJ have a common trait: innate appreciation for quality, typically for tools AND job well done.

I would say the majority of people here in the U.S. have no innate interest in caring about quality. That doesn't mean they don't THINK they care about quality, they just don't know what it really is, or what it's worth in the long term.

 

[PFSard]

Not all Chinese manufacturers are alike. Not all U.S. manufacturers are alike. Competition is good. The Japanese incentivized the U.S. auto industry to start producing better products. I'm in the camp that many Chinese companies will get better at producing higher quality products that to date have been unacceptable to many people.

This is pretty complicated. So, I'll leave it here.

 

[gdocktor3]

I don't get why HF (and other US branded Chinese tools) are considered perfectly good but Craftsman's Chinese tools are called junk and garbage. I know it's sad to see Cman production go overseas, but to call their products junk and HF's OK seems hypocritical. I would buy a Chinese Craftsman over a Pittsburgh anytime. Cman at least was once US made and I would figure they would hold the new manufacturer to a higher standard than a company that was born in the land of (formerly) shoddy workmanship. JMHO.

That's a really good point and other than their 36t ratchets still sucking, I can't say I've actually broken any of my (few) Chinese made Craftsman. I love the 84t low pro ratchets. They're essentially Maxx 88's minus 4 teeth.

Just remember, any country, any manufacturer can make quality tools, if they want too...

 

[Gmonkee]

I work on cars all day and have a goos basic understanding of how most of the stuff works.

Most of our clients are clueless beyond it broke or it makes an odd noise. The boss was explaining disc brakes to a professional driver last week. He was so proud he cleaned the engine and knew how to check the oil. He didn't know which was the transmission.
He is typical.

Tools are beyond most of them. Basic stuff they do but fixing a car isn't in the cards.
They don't need good tools or complete sets to do what they do.
Most mechanics are successfully using some 2nd rate tools daily in the mix, some all lower tier tools and jobs get done.

My boss just started using good ratchets this last year after getting by with whatever. The rest of it all is still whatnot **** and he is just thrilled with his ratchets, the rest still works like all the years before.

Quality tools are not for the greater percentage of tool users. The price weighed against the need just doesn't come out well.

Cheap tools will have a place as long as there are people not seeing a need to spend more than the needs of a few simple jobs a year.

 

[HanShotFirst]

I don't get why HF (and other US branded Chinese tools) are considered perfectly good but Craftsman's Chinese tools are called junk and garbage. I know it's sad to see Cman production go overseas, but to call their products junk and HF's OK seems hypocritical. I would buy a Chinese Craftsman over a Pittsburgh anytime. Cman at least was once US made and I would figure they would hold the new manufacturer to a higher standard than a company that was born in the land of (formerly) shoddy workmanship. JMHO.

Sockets and ratchets, I'll take HF over CM every day of the week. For combo wrenches, seems HF is constantly improving while CM is trying to figure out how low they can go.

Either is fine for a weekend warrior, but neither bring any real pride in ownership.

 

[jrockford]

I've personally had more returns because of poor quality from Chinese Craftsman vs. Pittsburgh although some Pittsburgh stuff is Taiwanese made just like Gearwrench. Sharp edges, burrs etc. Both of which somewhat injured me on the first uses. They were exchanged right away.

I like Craftsman as much as the next guy, but I've resorted to only getting their US made stuff; most of which is rebranded like their pry bars.

 

[Seppala]

I'm a DIY'er that works on the family's cars. I use a mixture of older U.S.A. tools and newer lower quality Chinese tools to keep my costs down, but I learned the hard way not to buy **** Chinese replacement parts, only OEM if possible.

 

[mushia]

Yes, competition is good. Just consider carefully before buying, but only from China, but also from US.

Not all Chinese manufacturers are alike. Not all U.S. manufacturers are alike. Competition is good. The Japanese incentivized the U.S. auto industry to start producing better products. I'm in the camp that many Chinese companies will get better at producing higher quality products that to date have been unacceptable to many people.

This is pretty complicated. So, I'll leave it here.

 

[Sh40674]

it all depends where in china (what factories) as well as quality oversight. are the people in charge of quality actually going to china and seeing how their product is produced? are they doing something about it? some stuff that comes from china is pretty good stuff, some is absolutely terrible, and a lot of it goes down to materials used and quality control. if the engineers here and their quality counterparts do their job and do something about iffy product, then yes, you can have outstanding quality from china.

i remember when i had my camaro i bought a summit brand intake, a copy of another brand (can't remember, maybe a weiand?) and it was terrible. you could see the casting edges and cornes that weren't chipped and ground off, and inside the ports and runners you could see obvious machining marks and more cornered instead of nice radius curves... sent it back, found another no name company that made the same manifold (a weiand copy) made in china as well... got it in the mail, couldn't tell the difference between it and a new name brand weiand manifold. machining good, casting good, finish good, ports and runners weren't sharp and radius was nice flowing through the runners. it all comes down to quality control.


reminds me of a show i watched one time.. a newscast or something. they had a CEO of a company (wouldn't say what company) that makes anything from cabinets and tools to lamp shades, just a general merchandise kinda thing. they interviewed him about shipping all of his production to china, and convinced him to fly there and look at it, and he admitted he had never watched production of his products since they left the U.S. he had been told by his people that quality was good so he didn't think anything of it. when he got there and realized the terrible quality and productions practices he had a meeting with the board and CEO of the chinese company and told them to their faces "i'm here today to tell you the quality is terrible, and i'm moving all production back to the U.S.".. he said it would cost alot but it would be worth it to keep customers. it would be nice to see more of that.

 

[Estley]

Take a look at quangsheng handplanes, I've heard people go as far as to compare them to Lie Nielsen. Also, fir the top gear fans, there was an episode where they looked at the Chinese auto industry, and while the consensus was that the cars were mostly ****, they also pointed out that it's a VERY young industry for them, and to get that far in that short span of time is impressive. The way I see it, they are capable of producing quality goods, if you're willing to pay for them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[chris142]

How long till made in India equals a quality tool?

 

[jl4c]

The way I see it, they are capable of producing quality goods, if you're willing to pay for them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Yep, like that iPhone you are using, made in China. You can get any level of quality out of China that you are willing to pay for.

 

[sierradmax]

China is growing rapidly and their labor force is catching on. I watched a CNN show on the reason behind China's thought on developing infrastructure in Africa. It's not just for oil. They're redirecting factory's from mainland china to Africa as they depict Africa as being the last continent for "cheap labor". I would guess that within the next 10-15 years, we will see alot of goods "Made in Ethiopia", "Made in Somolia", etc.

 

[nieuport17]

China is growing rapidly and their labor force is catching on. I watched a CNN show on the reason behind China's thought on developing infrastructure in Africa. It's not just for oil. They're redirecting factory's from mainland china to Africa as they depict Africa as being the last continent for "cheap labor". I would guess that within the next 10-15 years, we will see alot of goods "Made in Ethiopia", "Made in Somolia", etc.

The problem of putting factories in African countries is stability.
I personally don't mind seeing jobs get created there.
And the topic of Made in China... didnt I read something like this on another thread two days ago? I must be getting old.

 

[Estley]

How long till made in India equals a quality tool?

I figure 10-15 years before it's "quality tools, made in Namibia"




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[openwheelracing88]

Only those who can't compete, complain!!! Very un-American to ***** and moan about "made in China" because Americans benefit the most from "made in China". We are capitalists, not wealth distributors.

There are still plenty of American made products, but how many of the complainers actually spend more buying everything American made? Want the highest quality? How many are buying German over American? Japan over American? Or even Taiwan over American?

 

[TorKe]

Only those who can't compete, complain!!! Very un-American to ***** and moan about "made in China" because Americans benefit the most from "made in China". We are capitalists, not wealth distributors.

There are still plenty of American made products, but how many of the complainers actually spend more buying everything American made? Want the highest quality? How many are buying German over American? Japan over American? Or even Taiwan over American?

I agree with everything you said.

 

[tarbellb]

I don't trust Chinese quality. On this question I'm completely agree with John Ruskin:

Quote:
It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When
you pay too much, you lose a little money - that's all. When you pay
too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you
bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The
common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a
lot - it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well
to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will
have enough to pay for something better.

That is a brilliant quote, thanks for sharing.

 

[finn]

Only those who can't compete, complain!!! Very un-American to ***** and moan about "made in China" because Americans benefit the most from "made in China". We are capitalists, not wealth distributors.

There are still plenty of American made products, but how many of the complainers actually spend more buying everything American made? Want the highest quality? How many are buying German over American? Japan over American? Or even Taiwan over American?

The complainers are busy buying used USA tools at flea markets, ebay, and pawn shops. They think they are supporting domestic manufacturers, but in reality, buying used helps nobody.

 

[KEH]

On Chris's question about when will India make a quality tool, I wonder if anyone has seen a made in India ratchet? I don't remember seeing one.

KEH

 

[zendriver]

I don't get why HF (and other US branded Chinese tools) are considered perfectly good but Craftsman's Chinese tools are called junk and garbage. I know it's sad to see Cman production go overseas, but to call their products junk and HF's OK seems hypocritical. I would buy a Chinese Craftsman over a Pittsburgh anytime. Cman at least was once US made and I would figure they would hold the new manufacturer to a higher standard than a company that was born in the land of (formerly) shoddy workmanship. JMHO.

People have a lot of resentment of a once-American brand, "turning Chinese".

They say the quality, workmanship and "feel" is less, but in reality the quality of the American made Cman tools, was already less than "the good old days" anyway.

It called the real world and sometime it's a ***** to live in.

 

[bushmechanic]

Tools made in India, Pakistan, and so on are already terrible.

We don't need China's quality to improve for that.

 

[davethorik]

I've personally had more returns because of poor quality from Chinese Craftsman vs. Pittsburgh although some Pittsburgh stuff is Taiwanese made just like Gearwrench. Sharp edges, burrs etc. Both of which somewhat injured me on the first uses. They were exchanged right away.

I like Craftsman as much as the next guy, but I've resorted to only getting their US made stuff; most of which is rebranded like their pry bars.

So you think there is a Craftsman manufacturing facility somewhere? Nope, Craftsman has never made one tool themselves. Always made by another manufacturer and badged Craftsman.

 

[NoahG]

I don't get why HF (and other US branded Chinese tools) are considered perfectly good but Craftsman's Chinese tools are called junk and garbage. I know it's sad to see Cman production go overseas, but to call their products junk and HF's OK seems hypocritical. I would buy a Chinese Craftsman over a Pittsburgh anytime. Cman at least was once US made and I would figure they would hold the new manufacturer to a higher standard than a company that was born in the land of (formerly) shoddy workmanship. JMHO.

For me, its mainly because they are still selling Chinese Craftsman at USA Craftsman prices, and riding on brand recognition.

Harbor Freight makes no bones about their position. Cheap tools for cheap prices, and some of those cheap tools aren't actually bad. Why pay more for Chinese tools? Why pay $10 for a Chinese Craftsman nut driver when that can get me a whole set at HF?

 

[zendriver]

I figure 10-15 years before it's "quality tools, made in Namibia"




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China mfg economy never started by making tools. Ther will be plenty of work for Africans.

Fake puke, party favors, fireworks, barbie dolls, underpants. toasters. etc.

Eventually it became precision power tools and 80 inch LED tvs.

Just like American companies, once did, maybe the Chinese will want to outsource the cheap low profit, stuff, as well.

 

[Jtels85]

When I first began accumulating my tool collection several years ago, Craftsman was in the beginning stages of offshoring their production. I bought as many USA made tools as I could. My father always bought and used Craftsman, so naturally that was my "go to" brand. You couldn't get me to buy anything made overseas. I had that false sense of American pride. As time passed and I became more knowledgeable of tools in general, I began noticing that certain foreign brands were making tools that were far better quality and had better features than my USA Craftsman. Why did I have so much pride in my clunky 36 tooth ratchets when Carlyle had some pretty 60 tooth ratchets? They were chromed out, felt better in the hand from an ergonomic standpoint and light years ahead of what I was currently using. At this point, I buy American made whenever I can, but it's hard to beat some the quality coming out of China and Taiwan. Never thought I'd feel this way... I still can't bring myself to buy anything from Harbor Freight. To me, all they're good for are zip ties. Maybe another few years down the road and that opinion will change...

 

[PeterT]

The complainers are busy buying used USA tools at flea markets, ebay, and pawn shops. They think they are supporting domestic manufacturers, but in reality, buying used helps nobody.

I buy used USA tools and it helps me,, makes me feel good to use a nice vintage made US tool. What it doesn't help is harbor freight pushing that chinese rubber smelling junk.

 

[Sugarfryz]

Sockets and ratchets, I'll take HF over CM every day of the week. For combo wrenches, seems HF is constantly improving while CM is trying to figure out how low they can go.

Either is fine for a weekend warrior, but neither bring any real pride in ownership.

I agree whole heartedly. I have had 0 luck with any of my crapsman tools, I'm a pro mechanic and 100% believe hf is higher quality than sears. I use some of their wrenches everyday for alignments, my 21,22,24, and 26 are all hf and use them daily for alignments and they've really given me no issues. I put cheaters on them at a daily basis. If my ratcheting snap ons head is too large i reach for my hf way before my craftsman.

Personally i just don't think craftsman quality is anywhere near passable on anything but sockets. Their sockets work ok, but I'd much rather use hf. Last time I tried to warranty my ratchet at sears, they gave me two new ones off the shelf that were locked up. I gave up and stopped really caring.


Everyone's opinion is different, many people like craftsman, but to me hf is cheaper and better quality from the small amount of tools I have for both.

 

[Ozwelder]

Don't blame the Chinese. They will make any tool you want to a specific price point.

The quality can and will improve when the consumer demands better quality and is willing to pay for it.
Many Chinese companies are manufacturing to ISO9001.How many of the tool buying public even understand what ISO 9001 is ?

Insize, a Chinese metrology company is one that immediately comes to mind.

HINT! If a Chinese Manufacturer is half decent outfit you usually will find they have a company name and address,phone number on their literature.

That doesn't mean they are all good, but understand there are those companies trying to make a difference.

 

[mushia]

Made in India. Yeah, may be soon. May be in far future.

 

[Aussie Mike]

The Taiwanese tools have been pretty good for a long time now. I have a lot of stuff made by Teng tools. These are made in Taiwan but the quality and design is top notch. I would have them over the Australian made Sidchrome stuff any day.

For larger machinery the Taiwanese stiff is good too. My Lathe and Mill are Taiwanese and the quality is noticeably better than the Chinese equivalents.

That being said the Chinese machinery has improved vastly in the last 10 years.

I buy most of my carbide mill and lathe tooling out of China and it's great. The sheer volume of manufacturing they do has also meant the quality of the machines to do it has had to improve. It's not just driven by cheap labor any more, it's having the equipment to do the job efficiently. I can see the quality continue to improve in the coming years.

Remember when Korean product were considered junk. Who would buy a TV from a company called Lucky Gold Star? That company is now called LG and is one of the market leaders in home appliances. Today they are considered to be good quality.

Who would have bought a Korean car years ago? Kia, Hyundai and Daewoo... Hell no!

These days if you are driving a GM compact car it's likely a re-badged Daewoo.

Hyundai have recently released a new luxury badge "Genesis" like Toyota did with Lexus, Nissan did with Infinity etc. They are winning all kinds of awards too.

People are initially attracted by cheap prices but that doesn't last. They stay for quality.

It's a common company model to start out with a cheap and usually crappy alternative to what is already available in the market. Toyota started selling cars in the US market in the 1950s. They were slow and unreliable compared to the local offerings. Today they are often considered a benchmark for reliability and quality and are one of the largest most popular brands in the US.

Cheers

 

[txlch]

I don't get why HF (and other US branded Chinese tools) are considered perfectly good but Craftsman's Chinese tools are called junk and garbage. I know it's sad to see Cman production go overseas, but to call their products junk and HF's OK seems hypocritical. I would buy a Chinese Craftsman over a Pittsburgh anytime. Cman at least was once US made and I would figure they would hold the new manufacturer to a higher standard than a company that was born in the land of (formerly) shoddy workmanship. JMHO.

Not always the case, but American prices for Chinese tools is what irks me. 36 tooth Craftsman 1/2 ratchet for $25, HF 72 tooth for $20 or $10 for the 72 tooth composite