Made in ??? ranking

[route246]

I'm curious about brand perception with respect to countries.

Remove "Made in USA" (or Canada) from this discussion and think only of hand tools made somewhere outside of USA/Canada

Here is my intuitive brand ranking:

1. Made in Germany/France/Switzerland/WesternEurope
2. Made in Japan (especially for pry bars, hand saws and cutting tools)
3. Made in Taiwan or Korea
4. Made in Mexico
5. Made in China
6. Made in Vietnam/Cambodia/Philippines

#1 is actually quite high in my mind. #2 is high with respect to what I mentioned while #3 and #4 are close while #5 and #6 are not very high at all.

What does your brand rankings look like?

 

[zer0cell]

I never really considered any country being below china, but i guess it's possible

 

[route246]

My thoughts come from looking at garment labels and seeing some very far out third world countries. I left out Guatemala, Panama and Laos since I have yet to see any hand tools made there.

I never really considered any country being below china, but i guess it's possible

 

[mrholeshot]

I never really considered any country being below china, but i guess it's possible

India, Pakistan

 

[volpster31]

i agree with you rankings totally. i think the quality of the products would represent it too...ive yet to see tools from vietnam,but as china's population continues to move up the economic ladder,im sure vietnam wil take chinas place as being the mecca for junk

 

[mrholeshot]

I think it's more about who makes it than where it's made.

 

[zer0cell]

Is india really that bad for making tools? I've seen a bunch of indian files and i think some chisels or something. Never tried them though.

 

[Damian]

One thing people misunderstand about the whole "COO" or "made in..." is that it's not always the location that determines the build quality. These companies/corporations all have the ability to determine and direct the quality grade they want their products built to. Blue Point is a great example of this. It's Snap-on's little brother brand, and all of it is made overseas. However, Snap on requires a certain grade of build quality for these tools, hence the reason most Blue point stuff is really durable.

The COO more so determines the amount of $$ these companies are spending on labor. If one country bids the contract cheaper than the other, they get the job. But this is the bidding of labor. Craftsman/Duralast/Snap On/Whoever still have 100% control over the quality of the metal that's used to develop their products. You can teach a Chinese/Japanese/Mexican/Brazilian to build a ratchet just as good as an American, but the quality of metals they're provided isn't their fault nor in their control.

 

[mrholeshot]

Is india really that bad for making tools? I've seen a bunch of indian files and i think some chisels or something. Never tried them though.

I've never seen a good wrench come out of India. I can't speak for the files

 

[american lockpicker]

Made in Switzerland
Made in Denmark
Made in Sweden
Made in Germany
Made in France
Made in Austria
Made in Netherlands
Made in Belgium
Made in Finland
Made in Norway
Made in Israel
Made in USA
Made in Japan
Made in Italy
Made in Luxemberg
Made in Scotland
Made in Argentina
Made in Australia
Made in New Zealand
Made in Canada
Made in UK/England/Great Britain
Made in South Africa
Made in Spain
Made in Czech Republic
Made in Russia
Made in Ireland
Made in North Korea


These are the countries I'm interested in buying products from and in favourite order.

 

[Davefr]

One thing people misunderstand about the whole "COO" or "made in..." is that it's not always the location that determines the build quality. These companies/corporations all have the ability to determine and direct the quality grade they want their products built to. Blue Point is a great example of this. It's Snap-on's little brother brand, and all of it is made overseas. However, Snap on requires a certain grade of build quality for these tools, hence the reason most Blue point stuff is really durable.

The COO more so determines the amount of $$ these companies are spending on labor. If one country bids the contract cheaper than the other, they get the job. But this is the bidding of labor. Craftsman/Duralast/Snap On/Whoever still have 100% control over the quality of the metal that's used to develop their products. You can teach a Chinese/Japanese/Mexican/Brazilian to build a ratchet just as good as an American, but the quality of metals they're provided isn't their fault nor in their control.

^^^ What he said.

Dial up the budget and put in place quality expectations/quality culture and almost any country can produce high quality. It all boils down to $'s and involvement.

 

[mrholeshot]

One thing people misunderstand about the whole "COO" or "made in..." is that it's not always the location that determines the build quality. These companies/corporations all have the ability to determine and direct the quality grade they want their products built to. Blue Point is a great example of this. It's Snap-on's little brother brand, and all of it is made overseas. However, Snap on requires a certain grade of build quality for these tools, hence the reason most Blue point stuff is really durable.

The COO more so determines the amount of $$ these companies are spending on labor. If one country bids the contract cheaper than the other, they get the job. But this is the bidding of labor. Craftsman/Duralast/Snap On/Whoever still have 100% control over the quality of the metal that's used to develop their products. You can teach a Chinese/Japanese/Mexican/Brazilian to build a ratchet just as good as an American, but the quality of metals they're provided isn't their fault nor in their control.

You are correct. A company like Snap-On could build a ratchet plant in Mogadishu and still produce a quality tool. Danaher could build a plant in Germany and still pump out crappy Craftsman rasied panel ratchets.

 

[5lima30]

Concerning knives, Soligen steel from Germany is probably as good if not BETTER than most US made knives. Swiss made knives and watches are pretty sweet as well!

 

[american lockpicker]

Concerning knives, Soligen steel from Germany is probably as good if not BETTER than most US made knives. Swiss made knives and watches are pretty sweet as well!

I agree. I know my Solingen Wusthofs are better than my mother's US made Radas. Although I think Japanese blades are the world's best.

 

[superautobacs]

Any country should be able to produce a good tool. It's all up to what sort of standard the company wants to practice.

 

[bagsanthony]

First and foremost Germany and Switzerland !!!!!! With that being said I think Italy puts out some really incredible stuff.... China and Vietnam put out ****

 

[oldtools]

What about all those Snap On tools made in China?

 

[woody 73]

One thing people misunderstand about the whole "COO" or "made in..." is that it's not always the location that determines the build quality. These companies/corporations all have the ability to determine and direct the quality grade they want their products built to. Blue Point is a great example of this. It's Snap-on's little brother brand, and all of it is made overseas. However, Snap on requires a certain grade of build quality for these tools, hence the reason most Blue point stuff is really durable.

The COO more so determines the amount of $$ these companies are spending on labor. If one country bids the contract cheaper than the other, they get the job. But this is the bidding of labor. Craftsman/Duralast/Snap On/Whoever still have 100% control over the quality of the metal that's used to develop their products. You can teach a Chinese/Japanese/Mexican/Brazilian to build a ratchet just as good as an American, but the quality of metals they're provided isn't their fault nor in their control.

I like that answer very much...

 

[oldtools]

What about all those Craftsman professional tools made in China?

 

[zer0cell]

I think the op is talking about quality as a whole... it's virtually impossible to get anything more than a subjective answer without real test data, and even then its impossible as a lot of data has not even been compiled etc etc...

but the simple answer is something like this:

take every single tool created in country X and then determine the quality of each. Then give it an average. So while China may put out a LOT of **** that you would rate 1 out of 10 on a quality scale... they may also produce some products which one could rate 10 out of 10... but if you average it all out... perhaps the quality coming out of that country as a whole might be 3 out of 10.... which means the odds are if you buy a product labeled CHINA, it is going to be a POS. maybe from spain you might get 6 out of 10 etc... so your odds of getting a better product are higher.

Example #2
If there are 100 factories in a country, and 78 of them have VERY poor quality standards, and maybe 5 of them have top notch quality standards... with the rest falling somewhere in between, it is unlikely that you would want to trust an unknown brand with your money, if all you have to go by is that country's mark on the tool. Whereas a product marked USA you may be more willing to buy, even if you know nothing else about that particular brand ... because the quality coming out of that country on AVERAGE is higher than the quality lets say, coming out of Pakistan. Make sense?

 

[Damian]

What about all those Snap On tools made in China?

What about all those Craftsman professional tools made in China?

What point are you trying to make by making a duplicate question and inserting a different brand?

Most of us are well aware that even the most popular companies outsource overseas now. That's not news to a seasoned wrencher.

 

[recall]

...
Made in North Korea


These are the countries I'm interested in buying products from and in favourite order.

I was reading your list while thinking "wow, this is quite specific..." then I saw your last entry. It seems out of place.

 

[bagsanthony]

If i see a lack of construction, whether it be usa or vietnam, i don't buy them.... but for the most part, china just doesn't put out good stuff, and why support their economy....

 

[bmrisko]

One thing people misunderstand about the whole "COO" or "made in..." is that it's not always the location that determines the build quality. These companies/corporations all have the ability to determine and direct the quality grade they want their products built to. Blue Point is a great example of this. It's Snap-on's little brother brand, and all of it is made overseas. However, Snap on requires a certain grade of build quality for these tools, hence the reason most Blue point stuff is really durable.

The COO more so determines the amount of $$ these companies are spending on labor. If one country bids the contract cheaper than the other, they get the job. But this is the bidding of labor. Craftsman/Duralast/Snap On/Whoever still have 100% control over the quality of the metal that's used to develop their products. You can teach a Chinese/Japanese/Mexican/Brazilian to build a ratchet just as good as an American, but the quality of metals they're provided isn't their fault nor in their control.

x1000

That's why the COO argument is such a stupid one, IMHO.

 

[chevydriver37]

One thing people misunderstand about the whole "COO" or "made in..." is that it's not always the location that determines the build quality.

I agree. My company manufactures products (not tools) that are made in China. Can't say much due to the confidentiality agreement that always hangs over my head, but, suffice it to say our products are very high end for the home. Some of the factories over there are state-of-the-art, and better than U.S. factories. We have agents that take our specs to various factories to see what's what. These are stringent specs, with exact requirements for metal content, sizing, packaging, etc. If the product isn't made to exact spec, we can't sell it, and the factory won't get paid. Our products are tested by a lab in the U.S., and have to pass stringent tests as well. We'd never make a penny if they didn't.

The only issue we ever have to deal with is quantity (not quality) and crushed boxes, etc.

I guess my point is, yes, any U.S. company can manufacture in China (Asia, etc.) but they have to stay on top of the process to produce a good product. I can tell you that if the product was made here, it'd be at least 5 times the cost, and nobody would buy it - even if we cut our profit margin.

 

[route246]

Exactly, it's about "brand" and "branding" perception. Some people think Starbucks coffee is great and other people think it *****. That's a matter of brand perception. Think Snap-On 6-point 1/2" socket. Most people immediately think "very high quality" and this is due to the strength of the Snap-On brand and past experience.

I think similar generalizations can be made about countries.

I think the op is talking about quality as a whole... it's virtually impossible to get anything more than a subjective answer without real test data, and even then its impossible as a lot of data has not even been compiled etc etc...

but the simple answer is something like this:

take every single tool created in country X and then determine the quality of each. Then give it an average. So while China may put out a LOT of **** that you would rate 1 out of 10 on a quality scale... they may also produce some products which one could rate 10 out of 10... but if you average it all out... perhaps the quality coming out of that country as a whole might be 3 out of 10.... which means the odds are if you buy a product labeled CHINA, it is going to be a POS. maybe from spain you might get 6 out of 10 etc... so your odds of getting a better product are higher.

Example #2
If there are 100 factories in a country, and 78 of them have VERY poor quality standards, and maybe 5 of them have top notch quality standards... with the rest falling somewhere in between, it is unlikely that you would want to trust an unknown brand with your money, if all you have to go by is that country's mark on the tool. Whereas a product marked USA you may be more willing to buy, even if you know nothing else about that particular brand ... because the quality coming out of that country on AVERAGE is higher than the quality lets say, coming out of Pakistan. Make sense?

 

[Sancho]

Personally, I value most west European tool manufacturers and the UK.

My own experience: Spent a decent amount of time in Brazil this year, and no where near a beach, the tools they export are for the most part a result of the company buying them be it their brand image, cost point, etc.

However, I was shocked by the quality of the tools produced for the domestic market. Its like the US was a few decades ago, tools are not disposable, they should last and that seems to be the mentality for the domestic hand tools I was using. Interesting to say the least, and not at all what I had expected.

 

[Davefr]

I can tell you that if the product was made here, it'd be at least 5 times the cost, and nobody would buy it - even if we cut our profit margin.

That's a key point that a lot of people don't understand.

I hear people whine that the only reason companies outsource is to exploit the bottom line.

In many of these cases, but not all, the economic reality is that there would be no bottom line if outsourcing wasn't an option.

 

[Monte]

North Korea ?? WTF ? Ireland direct above North Korea ??? Why ?? IRA ???
Or did you mean South Korea ?

Made in Ireland
Made in North Korea

These are the countries I'm interested in buying products from and in favourite order.

 

[american lockpicker]

Yes I meant North Korea(Democratic People's Republic of Korea) its a politics thing. Anyways I was trying to buy a product from there through a Swedish company a while back but they never responded to my emails. Also Ireland is at the bottom as quality is low.

 

[4x4gearhead]

Exactly, it's about "brand" and "branding" perception. Some people think Starbucks coffee is great and other people think it *****. That's a matter of brand perception. Think Snap-On 6-point 1/2" socket. Most people immediately think "very high quality" and this is due to the strength of the Snap-On brand and past experience.

I think similar generalizations can be made about countries.

I could agree with that and used to be more closed minded towards buying american, but what I found was sometimes it is just better to buy a quick chinese automotive tool as aposed to going to sears and spending more for it.

 

[diesel research]

Blue Point is a great example of this. It's Snap-on's little brother brand, and all of it is made overseas. However, Snap on requires a certain grade of build quality for these tools, hence the reason most Blue point stuff is really durable.

This is not quite true. They also have bluepoint labeled tools made right here in the USA.

I'm not quite sure of the logic behind it, but I do have in my presence, 3 USA labeled bluepoint tools purchased within past 1 1/2 years. A metric dial indicator w/engine attachment tools, a specialty 13mm bent wrench, and a specialty 10mm bent wrench.

 

[noid]

I've never seen a good wrench come out of India. I can't speak for the files

What about older gedore wrenches?

 

[american lockpicker]

What about older gedore wrenches?

I see those a lot here. Haven't seen a broken one but I imagine Chinese is higher quality.

 

[Charles959]

Sennheiser of Germany builds some of the best headphones and microphones in its Irish factory. Some of the top pharmaceutical firms manufacture in Ireland.

Wera Werke of Germany does its manufacturing in the Czech Republic.

Vitra AG of Germany produces its clocks designed by George Nelson in Poland, in case you would like to see some examples of the finest workmanship anywhere (I am thinking of the wood case of the Chronopak clock).

 

[american lockpicker]

Sennheiser of Germany builds some of the best headphones and microphones in its Irish factory. Some of the top pharmaceutical firms manufacture in Ireland.

All mine are Made in china with Irish components and the mics are made in Germany.

 

[catfish]

However, I was shocked by the quality of the tools produced for the domestic market. Its like the US was a few decades ago, tools are not disposable, they should last and that seems to be the mentality for the domestic hand tools I was using. Interesting to say the least, and not at all what I had expected.

Brazil makes decent stuff from my experience , the tramontina steak knives i have are great and i believe tramontina also makes some tools?
Lets not kid ourselves here , like i said before China wants to manufacture everything and is screwing every other country in the process including Brazil : http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/9348299.stm

Here is my 'list'
1.Western countries that pay decent wage - Western Europe , Japan , USA , Australia , Canada
2.South Korea , Brazil , Malaysia
3.The rest of South America , Latin America , Taiwan
4.Anywhere else
5.China

 

[A_Pmech]

x1000

That's why the COO argument is such a stupid one, IMHO.

You'll think that, right up until the day your job gets offshored because you're "too expensive".