Made in u.s.a.

[Ponchoguy]

Some of you guys are delusional if you think that $10 you spend at a yard sale goes anywhere other than straight to Walmart to buy Chinese made ****. If that weren't true Sears would still be thriving.

Chris, I can tell you that the money I made off of selling something off CL (essentially an online "yard sale") went straight to buying American made tools in a lot of cases.

In fact, I've sold several Chinese made bikes that were "curbside" and went out and bought an American made tool.

 

[Ponchoguy]

Chances are that garage seller is going to wal mart to buy a bunch of Chinese stuff possibly not.

Buying a new USA product is immediately sent back to USA workers.


People aren't willing to spend the percentage of their income that they once were on tools. It's why craftsman had to go over seas I understand that but don't act like you're doing some awesome thing by buying a 30 years old American made tool.

Well, I'm putting money in someone's pocket versus a big corporation, which works for me. I've told plenty of sellers on Ebay, "Sure, I can go to Sears and buy this, but I'd rather get a little better deal from you and put the money in your pocket over a big company".

When you bought whatever brand it was in the past, and typically it may have been American made, you bought it once and it was good for your lifetime (and your kids too).

 

[Ponchoguy]

german companies should be what other companies strive for, ]

You mean like VW, who is under fire from the EPA? Sorry, couldn't resist .

 

[iScream]

Chris, I can tell you that the money I made off of selling something off CL (essentially an online "yard sale") went straight to buying American made tools in a lot of cases.

In fact, I've sold several Chinese made bikes that were "curbside" and went out and bought an American made tool.

You don't really count in the argument. None of us who spend time at GJ really do as we don't represent the average American buyer very well at all.

It's just a fact that the vast majority of people in this country buy up Chinese made products as fast as the dock workers can unload them. I bet there's an 75 percent chance that the person you buy that used tool from buys most of their **** from places like Walmart with no thought about COO.

So buying a USA made tool at a yard sale doesn't help the economy any more than buying a tool from Harbor Freight. The used tool puts a few dollars into the hand of one guy who goes and spends it at Walmart. The Harbor Freight purchase puts a dollar each into the hands of five employees working in the store. Then they go spend it on Chinese made products from Walmart.

 

[90zcar]

That's true, but at least Walmart hires US workers.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Walmart hires U.S. workers ....woopdy do. They pay **** minimal wages so what does that matter


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[iScream]

As others have noted, that's not true. Econ 101. Demand for used stuff leads to a lower supply of used stuff, which leads to a higher demand for new stuff, which of course leads to a higher supply of new stuff.

How many of us have hunted for a good deal on a used tool.... only to give up and just by a new one? Those guys buying up the used stuff indirectly create opportunity for manufacturers to replenish the overall supply required to meet the market's demand.

So, does buying new help more? Certainly. But buying used US made tools positively impacts the overall market (for US made tools).

It just isn't that simple. While a lower supply of used will drive demand for new, it doesn't in any way mean that increased demand will be for new USA made products.

 

[Ponchoguy]

You don't really count in the argument. None of us who spend time at GJ really do as we don't represent the average American buyer very well at all.

It's just a fact that the vast majority of people in this country buy up Chinese made products as fast as the dock workers can unload them. I bet there's an 75 percent chance that the person you buy that used tool from buys most of their **** from places like Walmart with no thought about COO.

So buying a USA made tool at a yard sale doesn't help the economy any more than buying a tool from Harbor Freight. The used tool puts a few dollars into the hand of one guy who goes and spends it at Walmart. The Harbor Freight purchase puts a dollar each into the hands of five employees working in the store. Then they go spend it on Chinese made products from Walmart.

We don't have Walmarts in New York City proper, only the burbs such as Long Island....so my yard sale/CL earnings aren't going there.

We're assuming the guy goes to WM with his earnings. What if he does as the other poster said and pays his mortgage, fuel bills and the like?

Chances are if you're selling a tool at a yard sale, you're not going to go buy another tool to replace it. You probably have no use for that tool in the first place.

I can't tell you how many yard sales I've gone to where the person says, "Yea this belonged to (fill in the relationship to that person) and I have no idea what it is or does. I know I don't have a need for it".

 

[Ponchoguy]

It just isn't that simple. While a lower supply of used will drive demand for new, it doesn't in any way mean that increased demand will be for new USA made products.

The cycle may come around again. Remember when manufacturing in Japan was so great because it was cheap? Well, Japan priced themselves out of the equation too. You can't even find any electronics made there anymore. It's cheaper to assemble them in the US now than Japan!

Today it's China that's cheap. Yesterday it may have been India. Korea is cheap today, but it may come around again, who knows.

 

[Wamsutta]

As much as REASONABLE ! I'm not going to pay 500% more for the same quality !!

Can you provide an example of that? I'm curious as heck to see what you come up with.

 

[davidw]

And Harbor Freight is full of Chinese people? Not the couple stores that I've been in. All I saw were young people who were obviously American.



I'm not arguing for buying at HF. I have a couple tool carts from there and a workbench but not very much else.



But even the Chinese made tools are unloaded from the ship by Americans, transported around the country by Americans, shipped from warehouses by Americans and rung up at the cash register by Americans.

Right. Sorry, maybe I'm just confused but that's kind of what I was saying.


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[Askme42]

The cycle may come around again. Remember when manufacturing in Japan was so great because it was cheap? Well, Japan priced themselves out of the equation too. You can't even find any electronics made there anymore. It's cheaper to assemble them in the US now than Japan!

Today it's China that's cheap. Yesterday it may have been India. Korea is cheap today, but it may come around again, who knows.

Sounds like you're just tryin to justify it.


No one here is gonna change anyone's mind.

 

[iScream]

We don't have Walmarts in New York City proper, only the burbs such as Long Island....so my yard sale/CL earnings aren't going there.

We're assuming the guy goes to WM with his earnings. What if he does as the other poster said and pays his mortgage, fuel bills and the like?

Chances are if you're selling a tool at a yard sale, you're not going to go buy another tool to replace it. You probably have no use for that tool in the first place.

I can't tell you how many yard sales I've gone to where the person says, "Yea this belonged to (fill in the relationship to that person) and I have no idea what it is or does. I know I don't have a need for it".

Sure I'm assuming that a high percentage of our population buys Chinese stuff without a second thought. But the current state of our economy, manufacturing and trade deficit backs up that assumption very strongly.

I agree that the used tool seller probably isn't going out to replace the tool but that has nothing to do with where your $10 ends up. We all have to buy clothes and furniture. We all have computers, televisions and smart phones. We all have cars. Do most people consider COO when purchasing these things, even for a second? Obviously the answer is no.

Do all garage sellers drive American made cars? Of course not. I could go on and on with examples.

There's nothing wrong with saving some $$ by getting decent quality tools used. But the argument that it helps the US economy in any significant way is pretty much wishful thinking.

 

[67King]

Disagree with the notion that buying used tools does no good for American jobs. It absolutely, positively does. Just a bit less directly than buying new. Forget where Garage Sale George spends the money, here is how it does it.
1. Resale valve. We may not thing much about it, but it comes into play. A guy may never plan to sell his tools, but he knows they have value as collateral or whatever. He is more willing to spend more on them than he would be if they did not hold any value. THat means he is more likely to buy American.
2. Any time the substitute good to a CHinese tool is chosen, it is one fewer Chinese tool on the market. That is voting with one's pocketbook. And you better believe I refuse to buy anything from Sears any more, even if I need a cheap tool I plan to throw away. I absolutely want their sales to go down as a direct correlation to their offshoring. IF it does, they and others like them may reconsider their decision to leave the US.

As for me, I have a bunch of old Craftsman stuff. 1/4, 3/8, and 1/2" drive standard and metric, shallow and deep, 6 and 12 point. Multiple sets of wrenches. Pliers. Etc. That stuff is now at a vacation home, and has been replaced mostly with SK stuff, except Knipex pliers, and my 3/8" drive torque wrench is Facom. I do have a set of reversible ratcheting stubbies that are Taiwan made WIlliams. Easily 95% of my tools are US made. Sheesh, I have several impact and stuff lie E-Torx that are still in the wrappers. I've been waffling over a set of long ball tip metric hex sockets. The SK's are $105, Sunex is $44 (includes both ball and regular tip), and I've unfortunately had bad luck with SK's hex bit stuff. I really want the USA ones, but almost 5 times the cost is really hard to justify.

 

[iScream]

The cycle may come around again. Remember when manufacturing in Japan was so great because it was cheap? Well, Japan priced themselves out of the equation too. You can't even find any electronics made there anymore. It's cheaper to assemble them in the US now than Japan!

Today it's China that's cheap. Yesterday it may have been India. Korea is cheap today, but it may come around again, who knows.

I think some of it is already coming around. But, unfortunately for many people, moving manufacturing of tools back to the US doesn't mean a return to the glory days of semi-skilled workers being able to get a good paying job on a factory assembly line.

It looks to me like much of the reason manufacturers are able to move production back here is cheaper and more reliable automation. Buy the Chinese rip off of the name brand CNC machine and pay five guys $50 an hour to keep them running rather than paying 50 people $14 an hour to stick a piece of metal in a jig and step on a pedal to drop a forge.

 

[Cato]

Well, here's an argument for Chinese tools...

Let China flood our market with tools. Americans get less expensive tools!

Chinese tools generally work. You'll never crack enough HF sockets to come close to the cost of Snap On or Wright.

We can save with Chinese Husky or Harbor Freight and use that cash for savings or more important things - like paying down debt, family time, savings, or investments.

Do we want young men and women going to work in tool plants? Is it a good idea to have unskilled Americans cleaning burrs of combo wrenches, unionized making 100k a year? That would be great for those workers, but completely unrealistic for the national economy. Instead they should train for white collar jobs or jobs in the service industry (ie auto mechanics).

The plants produce a lot of pollution, too. Let other countries pollute their environment.

Low level manufacturing like hand tools and small electronics should be made in the Third World. Building a ratchet isn't rocket science, the Chinese can build them just fine - and for less.

 

[Ponchoguy]

Sounds like you're just tryin to justify it.


No one here is gonna change anyone's mind.

Perhaps. But why does Honda build more Accords and Civics in the US than Japan? It isn't because they want to be nice to us. It's cheaper here than in Japan.

Japan used to produce low quality junk, but I think we'll all argue that they've helped the US industry wake up and realize that it's not the 1950's anymore.

 

[Askme42]

Well, here's an argument for Chinese tools...

Let China flood our market with tools. Americans get less expensive tools!

Chinese tools generally work. You'll never crack enough HF sockets to come close to the cost of Snap On or Wright.

We can save with Chinese Husky or Harbor Freight and use that cash for savings or more important things - like paying down debt, family time, savings, or investments.

Do we want young men and women going to work in tool plants? Is it a good idea to have unskilled Americans cleaning burrs of combo wrenches, unionized making 100k a year? That would be great for those workers, but completely unrealistic for the national economy. Instead they should train for white collar jobs or jobs in the service industry (ie auto mechanics).

The plants produce a lot of pollution, too. Let other countries pollute their environment.

Low level manufacturing like hand tools and small electronics should be made in the Third World. Building a ratchet isn't rocket science, the Chinese can build them just fine - and for less.

This is when I realized you didn't have a clue.

 

[Ponchoguy]

Sure I'm assuming that a high percentage of our population buys Chinese stuff without a second thought. But the current state of our economy, manufacturing and trade deficit backs up that assumption very strongly.

I agree that the used tool seller probably isn't going out to replace the tool but that has nothing to do with where your $10 ends up. We all have to buy clothes and furniture. We all have computers, televisions and smart phones. We all have cars. Do most people consider COO when purchasing these things, even for a second? Obviously the answer is no.

Do all garage sellers drive American made cars? Of course not. I could go on and on with examples.

There's nothing wrong with saving some $$ by getting decent quality tools used. But the argument that it helps the US economy in any significant way is pretty much wishful thinking.

Ask yourself how when Ebay first started it was "What the hell is that?". Look at what it's become today. No doubt it was an early giant of E-commerce. Plenty of used stuff sold there.....

If all that was insignificant, the gov't wouldn't be sniffing around looking to tax it .

 

[anndel]

Sorry everyone, I apologize for stirring up the hornets nest. I just wanted to know if anyone else looks for the "made in..." label when shopping like I do. My wife says I'm obsessed with that but I believe in helping save American jobs. In my tool box are Snap On, Craftsman, SK, Armstrong, Klein, Apex, a Husky tool cabinet that's Made in USA except my cordless Makita and DeWalt powewrtools and Rockwell Jawhorse which are made in china. My Fein multimaster is made in Germany.

 

[Marcos45/70]

german companies should be what other companies strive for, ]

You mean like VW, who is under fire from the EPA? Sorry, couldn't resist .

With our current gov't I'm sure that doesn't mean much.

 

[Ponchoguy]

With our current gov't I'm sure that doesn't mean much.��

LOL. They still violated the law. VW has always been bottom barrel quality, after the Beetle they made some real heaps. The Karmann Ghia looks like a Kohler low boy toilet bowl in my belief.

I worked with a Chinese guy (born in China) and he was a computer guy so he would ask us about cars. We showed him a photo of a Karmann Ghia and he said in broken English, "looks like toilet bowl, man". LOL.

 

[Flivver250]

Absolutely as much as possible, especially in tools. I did buy a used import box on CL when I had grossly outgrown my old Snap-On set. I buy everything I can made in USA. Stereo, gas grill, household goods etc. You could dig through my boxes and find an odd Spanish adjustable wrench or a foreign volt meter, but you'd have to dig through a mountain of American forged excellence. F250 and Indian motorcycle. I do not get insulted by German, Croatian, Czech, or Brazilian guns or women.

 

[Banjorear]

I'm with you OP. Used to drive Japanese cars, but my next purchase will be American.

 

[Sprintman]

No. Over priced and over marketed with dodgy warranty.

 

[bcradio]

Thankfully , no.

 

[colin39]

USA first for me, followed by Canada tied with Europe.

Me too , and i live in the Y-uk

 

[Kensgarage]

Walmart hires U.S. workers ....woopdy do. They pay **** minimal wages so what does that matter


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspi...ans-work-at-walmart-with-many-more-trying-to/

 

[zkling]

As much as possible.

This. At times it is just not feasible. I do try to avoid china at all costs though. USA followed by euro then Taiwan.

 

[Don53]

It just isn't that simple. While a lower supply of used will drive demand for new, it doesn't in any way mean that increased demand will be for new USA made products.

That's only true if the market as a whole (or within a segment) doesn't distinguish between US made tools and non US made tools. If you assume there's a market (or market segment) for US made tools, then what happens in the "used" segment impacts what happens in the "new" market. We can debate how big that market is, and how acceptable "substitute" products are (i.e., foreign made tools), and / or the price elasticity of the market... but I think most would agree there is a market for US made tools, and if / as used products become less available, new US made products will be demanded (by some at least).

Another example is the auto industry. There's a pretty good market for Hondas and Toyotas in the US. It's pretty easy to see that the demand for used Hondas and Toyotas has a positive impact on the demand (& therefore supply) of new Hondas and Toyotas.

 

[iScream]

That's only true if the market as a whole (or within a segment) doesn't distinguish between US made tools and non US made tools. If you assume there's a market (or market segment) for US made tools, then what happens in the "used" segment impacts what happens in the "new" market. We can debate how big that market is, and how acceptable "substitute" products are (i.e., foreign made tools), and / or the price elasticity of the market... but I think most would agree there is a market for US made tools, and if / as used products become less available, new US made products will be demanded (by some at least).

Another example is the auto industry. There's a pretty good market for Hondas and Toyotas in the US. It's pretty easy to see that the demand for used Hondas and Toyotas has a positive impact on the demand (& therefore supply) of new Hondas and Toyotas.

I think Ford and Chevrolet are better examples. I fully believe that fewer used Ford cars on the market will cause some people to purchase new Ford cars when they would have preferred used.

There's a problem with applying this to tools though. A used USA made Ford can be replaced with a new USA made Ford. But buying a used USA made Craftsman ratchet can't drive the purchase of a new USA made Craftsman ratchet because there simply is no such thing today. So, for that yard sale purchase of a USA made Craftsman ratchet to drive the purchase of a new USA made ratchet, someone has to be willing to step up to premium brands at a whole other price level. Like replacing your old Ford with a new Cadillac.

And I think it's pretty clear that most people in this country are not able/willing to pay for a Cadillac if they can't get a used Ford. They go buy a cheap Hyundai instead. And these cheap asses are not going to buy Snap-on because they can't find a used USA Craftsman. They go to Harbor Freight instead.

Of course you're right that "some" people will step up and spend more for USA made tools but I think that's a pretty small percentage of our population. Hanging out on this forum can make it seem like it's a much larger percentage than it really is.

And yes I know it's a little different for brands like Channel Lock. There's all kinds of gray area but I think it's pretty clear that, overall, buying used US made tools does jack **** for our economy. And it might even have an overall negative impact.

Chris

 

[Don53]

And yes I know it's a little different for brands like Channel Lock. There's all kinds of gray area but I think it's pretty clear that, overall, buying used US made tools does jack **** for our economy. And it might even have an overall negative impact.

Chris

I agree the impact is very small in the scheme of things, but I'd argue there is some positive impact (i.e. buying US made tools, even used ones, is good for the US economy... or at least marginally better than buying imports). Little bits of value that we can maintain in the US could add up & help to some extent.

What's your logic that buying US made tools in the US might have an overall negative impact on our economy?

 

[Titanium Steel]

Me too , and i live in the Y-uk

So do you support products manufactured in the United Kingdom? Or in the case of the other member Mexico?

Not sure about other states or others, but being that I am a American citizen, I want to support my homeland.

Askme42 brought up a really great point that no one here is trying to change anyone else's mind. If a person is going to change, they themselves are going to do this, not anyone else.

USA might be far from perfect, but for the most part I am proud to be an American, as I am sure those not from the USA are proud of their countries.

 

[iScream]

I agree the impact is very small in the scheme of things, but I'd argue there is some positive impact (i.e. buying US made tools, even used ones, is good for the US economy... or at least marginally better than buying imports). Little bits of value that we can maintain in the US could add up & help to some extent.

What's your logic that buying US made tools in the US might have an overall negative impact on our economy?

I guess I could be reaching a little far with that statement. What I do know is that when you buy a new SK or Snap-on ratchet, you are sure that your money supports jobs at a factory in the USA. You can probably even have some confidence that the people working at that factory have some concern about spending their paychecks on USA made products.

When you buy a used tool at a yard sale, I think there's a 75 percent chance that the seller buys Chinese made goods at Walmart/Lowes/Home Depot with whatever portion they don't use to pay their bills. (yes I made that stat up but I think it's reasonable)

So that's my, possibly fuzzy, logic.

Chris

 

[dclassical]

I used to. And I really love the USA made tool I have. I bought SK. I do not work as a mechanic and only use my tools when something has to be fixed on a car, or around the house, or I build something on the house.

But nowadays that I have a lot of tools, I tend to not want to spend the money on "expensive" tools anymore (for example for new sockets I use GearWrench and Tekton). Sometimes I regret it, sometimes not.

I am just at a point in life where I want to spend my money somewhere else. Automotive repair is not really a hobby anymore. I do it to save money (to spend it somewhere else) and because I still like doing the diagnostic work and I want to help my friends.

So now I am back to spending my money on flight lessons for endorsments (so it still goes support Americans in a way... my flight instructor, flight school, airplane rental) and photography (goes more to Japanese with Canon body and L lenses).

With that said... I am going to buy another Fluke, USA made, so I still try to buy USA made for some things.

 

[2oolhound]

When you buy a used tool at a yard sale, I think there's a 75 percent chance that the seller buys Chinese made goods at Walmart/Lowes/Home Depot with whatever portion they don't use to pay their bills. (yes I made that stat up but I think it's reasonable)

So that's my, possibly fuzzy, logic.

Chris

I think you are overlooking one important factor. If you don't buy the tool used or even from a US company, you can bet 100% for sure that you are supporting the off shore economy. There is no fuzzy logic there.

By this argument you can 100% support the china economy or you can take a chance by buying used USA (thereby blocking your direct support to chi economy) and by fuzzy logic also contribute 25% to the local economy (based on the assumption 75% goes to walmart).

I think it's equally important to NOT support a foreign economy that is hell bent on dominating the world market and buying all my countries natural resources as it is to just support our local economy.

All we need now are bumper stickers that read: "I Support the Chinese Economy and Proud of It! ….and it also demonstrates how smart I am for doing so."

 

[iScream]

I think you are overlooking one important factor. If you don't buy the tool used or even from a US company, you can bet 100% for sure that you are supporting the off shore economy. There is no fuzzy logic there.

By this argument you can 100% support the china economy or you can take a chance by buying used USA (thereby blocking your direct support to chi economy) and by fuzzy logic also contribute 25% to the local economy (based on the assumption 75% goes to walmart).

I think it's equally important to NOT support a foreign economy that is hell bent on dominating the world market and buying all my countries natural resources as it is to just support our local economy.

All we need now are bumper stickers that read: "I Support the Chinese Economy and Proud of It! ….and it also demonstrates how smart I am for doing so."

Didn't miss that in any way. I haven't seen a single person promote buying Chines tools in this thread. I certainly have said nothing even remotely like that.

 

[Ponchoguy]

So do you support products manufactured in the United Kingdom? Or in the case of the other member Mexico?

Not sure about other states or others, but being that I am a American citizen, I want to support my homeland.

Askme42 brought up a really great point that no one here is trying to change anyone else's mind. If a person is going to change, they themselves are going to do this, not anyone else.

USA might be far from perfect, but for the most part I am proud to be an American, as I am sure those not from the USA are proud of their countries.

+1 with this. Plus, why would I want to support a country that's trying to send poison dog food and toys to us and trying to destroy us in general? I should send them my hard earned money.

Nah....

 

[Ponchoguy]

I guess I could be reaching a little far with that statement. What I do know is that when you buy a new SK or Snap-on ratchet, you are sure that your money supports jobs at a factory in the USA. You can probably even have some confidence that the people working at that factory have some concern about spending their paychecks on USA made products.

When you buy a used tool at a yard sale, I think there's a 75 percent chance that the seller buys Chinese made goods at Walmart/Lowes/Home Depot with whatever portion they don't use to pay their bills. (yes I made that stat up but I think it's reasonable)

So that's my, possibly fuzzy, logic.

Chris

I think it's your opinion and I respect that. But you can't tar everyone with the same brush. I can't think of a single tool I bought at retail. Many were bought used or new on sale.

More used than new perhaps. Yet, I have two newer cars, both American made. Therefore, I supported the US economy by buying them. I put food on someone's table in middle America. When I buy parts for them, hopefully those are made in the USA too, supporting more jobs.

As another poster said, better to make a small impact than no impact. Today, we had a local election. Neither candidate is a "winner" in my book, but I don't feel right when I don't vote. People died for that right in this country. All we have to do is take five minutes and make our voice heard. If you don't vote, you can't *****.

In the same respect, if you don't vote with your wallet, you can't ***** about the loss of this or that manufacturing. Your choices matter.

 

[iScream]

I think it's your opinion and I respect that. But you can't tar everyone with the same brush. I can't think of a single tool I bought at retail. Many were bought used or new on sale.

More used than new perhaps. Yet, I have two newer cars, both American made. Therefore, I supported the US economy by buying them. I put food on someone's table in middle America. When I buy parts for them, hopefully those are made in the USA too, supporting more jobs.

As another poster said, better to make a small impact than no impact. Today, we had a local election. Neither candidate is a "winner" in my book, but I don't feel right when I don't vote. People died for that right in this country. All we have to do is take five minutes and make our voice heard. If you don't vote, you can't *****.

In the same respect, if you don't vote with your wallet, you can't ***** about the loss of this or that manufacturing. Your choices matter.

I didn't say or even imply that buying used tools makes you a bad American, Joe. But I do not believe buying use tools helps anyone in a significant way either. It's probably just kinda neutral, not really helping or hurting much.

Sure there's opinion and assumptions mixed into that but much of it it factual.

Honestly, sometimes I'm a little ashamed that I don't go out of my way more to buy American.

I do put some thought into not buying Chinese stuff when there is a decent alternative. I've been buying a lot of Gearwrench stuff. I actually thought it was all Taiwanese until someone pointed out to me that one thing I posted was Chinese. I hadn't even looked, just assumed Taiwan.

The last 5 cars I purchased new have all been made by Ford. And you should know from other threads that I have a pretty good sized collection of USA made Craftsman stuff.

But I own two of the Harbor Freight black tool carts and a Harbor Freight workbench.

Anyway, I didn't mean to offend.

Chris

 

[Ponchoguy]

I didn't say or even imply that buying used tools makes you a bad American, Joe. But I do not believe buying use tools helps anyone in a significant way either. It's probably just kinda neutral, not really helping or hurting much.

Sure there's opinion and assumptions mixed into that but much of it it factual.

Honestly, sometimes I'm a little ashamed that I don't go out of my way more to buy American.

I do put some thought into not buying Chinese stuff when there is a decent alternative. I've been buying a lot of Gearwrench stuff. I actually thought it was all Taiwanese until someone pointed out to me that one thing I posted was Chinese. I hadn't even looked, just assumed Taiwan.

The last 5 cars I purchased new have all been made by Ford. And you should know from other threads that I have a pretty good sized collection of USA made Craftsman stuff.

But I own two of the Harbor Freight black tool carts and a Harbor Freight workbench.

Anyway, I didn't mean to offend.

Chris

Nah, no offense taken, I think you know that well enough. It's important to vote with your wallet, even if in a small way. If we all say, "The hell with it", and that happens 100 times over, that's 100x dollars going somewhere else.

My Chevy Sonic has a Korean made Daewoo engine in it. I wasn't happy about it, but the car was originally my mother's and she didn't want to spend the money on the 1.4 turbo, plus it didn't come (at that time) with an auto trans. But for that class of car, there aren't many made/assembled in the US for that price range.

I was friends with a guy at my last job who was an atheist. He wasn't any less my friend because of what he did/did not believe. We had other things to talk about. My point here is that I won't change you, you won't change me. Doesn't make me bad or you bad.

Sometimes, large momentums come out of small choices. I'm a firm believer in that.