Made in Vietnam (long post)

[petalmasher]

So, I ended up finding out after arriving on a job site that I was going to work on a Cooling system, which has a bunch of large fittings and I left my extra wide jaw adjustable wrench at home. There happened to be a Home Depot a few blocks away, so I went there, but they didn't have any adjustable wrenches that would open wide enough, so I just grabbed a pair of these: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwmTgXordmKvZGFDa1c1VjRMQXc/edit?usp=sharing

They were good enough to get the job done and good enough to show me how useful a pair of “v”-jaw pump pliers can be. There are some weaknesses though; only half of the “v” portion of the jaw has teeth, so it doesn't get much grip and you have to squeeze really hard on the handles to grab a pipe. Because I have to squeeze hard, I would love to be able to use the ends of the handles for better leverage, but the last inch and a half of the handle, since it has been turned into a reamer which I don’t need, isn't useful as a handle. Although there seems to be agreement on Knipex being the best pliers maker, I have more experience with Wiha tools which have always been at least functional for the intended use.

Since I am carrying my tool bag around with me, all other things being equal, I’ll take the lighter tool. I ended up ordering these on All-Spec: http://www.all-spec.com/products/32661.html. What I got was thishttps://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwmTgXordmKvWWhJN01MT3RCZEU/edit?usp=sharing Made in Vietnam, with one half of the V in the jaw lacking teeth unlike the one pictured in the ad which had Teeth on both sides and was made in Germany. Now, made in Vietnam or not, what I got is clearly a well-made tool as one can see by the way the tips of the jaws fit together so seamlessly compared to the Milwaukee piers: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwmTgXordmKvaXhXSEVteFN3R2c/edit?usp=sharing

Whether the wiha pliers work fantastically or not is no longer the issue. I almost feel as though I have a responsibility to demand a refund from All-Spec simply because as a consumer, by not holding a retailer’s feet to the fire and allowing them to profit from the misrepresentation, I’m kind of discouraging them from taking the time to make sure their website is accurate. At this point, after ordering and waiting two weeks for these pliers and being sick of slipping and trying to squeeze on the metal reamers of the Milwaukee pliers, I’m tempted just to use the Wiha pliers.

By now, even if I do return them, I’ll probably just get some Channellock Griplocks from the local hardware store rather than screwing around with any more internet orders At least they're made in the USA.

What would you do? How important is a “made in Germany” or “made in the USA” stamp on your tools?

 

[upgrading]

If you think the tool is well made, you could email them and have them change the COO info on their webpage for that tool.
They might not be as into COO as some of us here are.
Many times on Amazon I can not even get an answer when I ask what the COO is.

Wiha is quite into SROV tools.

 

[nanofrog]

I think I understand your general sentiment, and it bothers me when manufacturers intentionally mislead their customers by burying COO information as well (it's there, but you'll have to hunt for it, usually as fine print).

FWIW, the following can be found on the appropriate page (here): "Packing Wiha USA, Forgings by Wiha Vietnam, Designed to DIN/ISO by Wiha Germany". Bit hard to find, but it's there. And as mentioned, Wiha has made a huge investment in their Vietnamese production facilities. If anything, I'd expect to see more and more Wiha tools made in Vietnam (German stuff finishing tooling made in SROV just enough to meet "Made in Germany" requirements, which are rather low).

In the case of All-Spec, they definitely need to update their page/s on COO. Whether or not skipping making any changes were intentional or not, I doubt it. There's no direct profit in updating the pages (bean counter thinking), so probably no one has been paying attention let alone trying to get the pages update. Likely expect their suppliers to notify them of these changes, which isn't something Wiha has been shouting from the rafters.

Sadly, I use All-Spec a lot, and something like this concerns me, as I rely on their COO information as part of my decision making process rather heavily (is the price appropriate for what it is & where it's made).

 

[petalmasher]

If the only difference were the "made in SROV" vs "made in Germany", I might not have cared so much, but the shape of the head and the different tooth configuration make me really regret not just getting the Knipex, or Channellocks (which are available locally and won't require waiting for shipping). For all I know these changes in design may have been improvements, but I worry if I use them to find out, I might cause some damage and give All-spec a reason not to take them back it they turn out not to work as well as expected.

 

[ChevyEFI]

I have no anti Vietnam disposition.
And I don't care for Channellocks.

Win win.

 

[Fretters]

How important is a “made in Germany” or “made in the USA” stamp on your tools?

As long as they're reliable, of decent quality, work well and do what I expect of them, my tools could honestly have been hand made whilst gripped between a virgins thighs in some remote village in some obscure country, and I wouldn't give a monkeys.

 

[petalmasher]

Whether or not skipping making any changes were intentional or not, I doubt it. There's no direct profit in updating the pages (bean counter thinking), so probably no one has been paying attention let alone trying to get the pages update.

This was my thinking, and I actually like All-Spec, but sometimes being a good consumer means taking the time time to impose a penalty for not updating their web page and supplying correct information to customers by sending stuff back when it isn't what we thought we were ordering.

 

[nanofrog]

This was my thinking, and I actually like All-Spec, but sometimes being a good consumer means taking the time time to impose a penalty for not updating their web page and supplying correct information to customers by sending stuff back when it isn't what we thought we were ordering.

True, but when I think of penalty, it's on the seller, not the buyer.

In this case, an email or phone call mentioning the issue should be sufficient I would think. Easier and cheaper on your part too (got the impression you used them, so you'd definitely be on the hook for shipping both ways + gas).

All-Spec is usually quite responsive with good customer service, so I don't think it would be a waste of time in their case.

Just a thought, particularly as it seems you do like the pliers in this case, and I presume you don't think the price way out of line, if at all (don't have the impression price was part of your concern, just accuracy of info).

 

[west wind]

Knipex pump pliers. I always say once you go knipex its hard to go back

 

[Chadwilliam1]

Just use your adjustable wrench.

 

[Bogey won]

I tried to buy 6 new long handled shirts from tractor supply, years ago, laid them on the counter, noticed made in Vietnam, as i walked out the door they were still laying on the counter. I was not in the mood. Still aint. Its a bitter taste that sticks, foreign **** is all i can buy, i might have to do it to get what i want, but i don't have to like it and can refrain from buying more than i need. I have seen an lived the best this country will ever have to offer. Adios America, hello New World Order, in whatever form it takes.

 

[Tronyadorable]

Blind patriotism is a mental illness.

 

[dlcwent]

Blind patriotism is a mental illness.

Tell us more about "Tronyadorable". You've certainly come on to GJ in a big way.

 

[honcho]

There are good products made all over the world. However, the seller's listing of the pliers you purchased was not accurate and, as such, if the pliers are not working for you then you should feel free to return them.

On Vietnam as a source of products: We get to vote every time we spend our money. Just like in a voting booth, one person's money (vote) doesn't really change the behavior of a company (politician). But when lots of people change their buying (voting) behavior, companies (politicians) do take notice. Sadly, most people don't care where their purchases come from so probably not much chance of convincing a large number of people to change their buying habits for products from Vietnam.

I do believe consumers should try to purchase goods from countries that treat their citizens fairly The USA isn't perfect, but the Socialist Republic of Vietnam isn't exactly a worker paradise by most measures. Many of the lower costs that attract companies to countries like Vietnam are a result of treating workers poorly, polluting the environment, and corruption. Those aren't unheard of in the USA and Europe, but we have developed laws and protections against such abuses. While we can complain about the cost of compliance, such rules work to make the USA and similarly developed countries better for workers and consumers.

As much as I'd like to give a simple response to the question of the importance of Country of Origin for products, there is no one right answer. It is clear that international trade is worthwhile in many ways and, barring an apocalypse of some sort, trade and foreign production is here to stay.

 

[404]

Blind patriotism is a mental illness.

Better a patriot than a troll...sad little boy.

Article:
Internet Trolls Really Are Horrible People

http://www.slate.com/articles/healt..._machiavellianism_narcissism_psychopathy.html

 

[Tronyadorable]

Better a patriot than a troll...sad little boy.

Article:
Internet Trolls Really Are Horrible People

http://www.slate.com/articles/healt..._machiavellianism_narcissism_psychopathy.html

Good read. Did you actually read it ?

 

[AceofSpad3s]

I cannot agree with you more, people that freak the **** out because something is not made in america are idiots. It is just so childish, I like buying american as much as the next guy but I am not gonna buy a more expensive or an inferior product if I have a better option from another country. If someone wants my money they are going to have to earn it buy making competitive products.

 

[Bogey won]

Blind patriotism is a mental illness.

Each to their own. Please list your credentials that qualify you as a mental health professional to make such an assessment on the internet without an intake interview.

Its not blind when you can clearly see what has transpired, but the view from your ivory tower may differ.

Its not patriotism its choice,the draft dodger made the choice for the American public, now we you and i can or cannot make the choice to freely spend our money in a way we choose.

I choose my way, you choose your way. Im wrong you say ? prove it.

As for mental illness that's a given on this site.

 

[2oolhound]

Kinda like how Gandi regained India's independence in 1949. They burned all the British clothes and started spinning fabric and wearing only homespun.

The difference is we are being colonized monetarily not physically.

 

[jstew814]

Hi petalmasher!

I’m the eCommerce Manager at All-Spec. I’m sorry about your frustration with the COO for the Wiha pliers you purchased from us. Wiha has changed this product from Germany to Vietnam without letting us know (unfortunately this happens often with a lot of tool manufacturers). We have updated the COO and added an updated picture. That being said, we’ll be happy to accept the item back for credit if you’re unsatisfied with the product. Please call our customer service at 800-537-0351 to return the pliers.

 

[Wamsutta]

What would you do? How important is a “made in Germany” or “made in the USA” stamp on your tools?

What would I have done? At the risk of sounding like a smart ***, I would have never gotten the fake pliers in the first place. Usually, and I stress usually, the USA or German stamp means I'm getting the real deal that's quality made.What I suggest you do is get your money back for those two fake pliers and get Knipex.

 

[Bogey won]

Kinda like how Gandi regained India's independence in 1949. They burned all the British clothes and started spinning fabric and wearing only homespun.

The difference is we are being colonized monetarily not physically.

When things get bad enuff, the world will clamor for a savior, and a new Hitler or Stalin, will be reborn in whatever form he may take, The Germans weren't stupid, just desperate, for a savior and they got one. Its kinda like getting married, it may not turn out like you planned.

 

[Ign]

Hi petalmasher!

I’m the eCommerce Manager at All-Spec. I’m sorry about your frustration with the COO for the Wiha pliers you purchased from us. Wiha has changed this product from Germany to Vietnam without letting us know (unfortunately this happens often with a lot of tool manufacturers). We have updated the COO and added an updated picture. That being said, we’ll be happy to accept the item back for credit if you’re unsatisfied with the product. Please call our customer service at 800-537-0351 to return the pliers.

Now there's customer service. Awesome. Kudos to All-Spec (of whom I've honestly never heard before, but now I wanna check out your website).