Made some lower control arms for my 510 today.

[Ifixvws]

Hey all,

I finally have a cool welding project to post. I'm in the middle of rebuilding a 510 Datsun and wanted to beef up the suspension. We ordered these hiem joints from QA1 and started cutting.

My TIG skills are not quite there yet, so I had a friend of mine TIG these up.

 

[AStrahota]

Love Datsuns! Post some pics, or send me a link!

 

[Drew_flux]

Have you boxed the under side of the arm, for additional strenth?

 

[Ifixvws]

A quick picture of the car.

Here is the link to the build thread.
http://community.ratsun.net/topic/47243-my-1968-2dr-510-starting-from-scratch/

This is my first Datsun. Hoping to have it running by summers end. We will see. I also have a Boat to finish.


The under side of the Control arm is boxed from the Factory. We added three to four extra stitch welds to supplement the spot welds already present.

 

[CNGsaves]

Back in the day, lots of SCCA car races were held at small venues here in midwest USA and loved seeing those Datsun 510's race around lakes, roar through the barrels of water, etc.

Will this be a street driver for you, or racing of some sort??

If engine size was unlimited, it would be TOO SWEET to stuff a 3.5 ltr v6 from a 350Z in there and stay brand loyal.

Keep the pics coming. We like!

 

[Jehannum]

Those look a lot like the lower control arms for my 240Z.

Is the adjustability you built in going to allow you to lower it while maintaining proper camber?

 

[930dreamer]

My wife drove a two door 510 with an auto during college. I'd like to find one someday.

 

[aggierailroad]

Safety police warning - ***you should NOT use heim joints in bending like that... A lot of places won't even pass them during tech inspections...***

Be careful!

 

[SM Racing]

If the tension rods are suitably mounted these arms will not see a bending moment, only a rotational moment. They will work fine like that. However when you wear out the QA1 joints this fall, look at a better brand of joints that are made in this country or Europe.

 

[NASTYZEN]

If your new setup is for road use, may I recommend a dust seal so your rod end will last longer. This is what I use.
http://www.sealsit.com/rodend.asp

 

[Steevo]

A 510 is on my bucket list.

Nice control arm mod. Be sure to let us know how those work out.

 

[SM Racing]

I have been using these in 4wd applications. Tough to get on, but definitely keep the **** out.

http://www.sealsit.com/rodendboots.asp

 

[Big-Foot]

Nice job on the mods and welding! I like how you integrated the bung with the original arm - very strong..

Safety police warning - ***you should NOT use heim joints in bending like that... A lot of places won't even pass them during tech inspections...***

Be careful!

Are you familiar with Datsun 510 front suspension?
Where is the weight carried?

 

[Zengineer]

They aren't in bending. Sway bar, TC rod and spindle/strut all mount to the outboard section. The rod ends are inboard attached to the front cross member.

 

[aggierailroad]

They aren't in bending. Sway bar, TC rod and spindle/strut all mount to the outboard section. The rod ends are inboard attached to the front cross member.

Sounds good - I'm not familiar with the Datsun setup. I've just seen a lot of home built "adjustable" control arms that crack in half on the thread and cause bad wrecks.

 

[justanengineer]

Interesting project. Without looking too closely at the welds/grinding/huge HAZ, and buckling (not bending) concerns aside, my main concern/question would be how youre planning to limit the arm motion since you went from 1 DOF to 3. Adding another link like an upper control arm? Ive used heims on offroad A-arms many times before, but those always had two heims mounting two points off the frame not one.

 

[2BRacing]

I used that exact same setup on my oval track 510 racecar 30 years ago! Brings back many fond memories! I installed small spacers on each side of the swivel to take up the lateral play, as the joint I used was narrower than the original "eye".

Those seals are an excellent idea - way back then, such items were not available here where I live, so I just greased the joint up well and wrapped it with a piece of plastic and insulation tape!

Good luck with your project!

 

[Zengineer]

Interesting project. Without looking too closely at the welds/grinding/huge HAZ, and buckling (not bending) concerns aside, my main concern/question would be how youre planning to limit the arm motion since you went from 1 DOF to 3. Adding another link like an upper control arm? Ive used heims on offroad A-arms many times before, but those always had two heims mounting two points off the frame not one.

The OEM bushed joints function isn't limiting the DOF of the assembly in as many ways as you suggest, that is done by the strut and TC rod. What the OEM bushed joints did was NVH isolation, all in a wobbly, sloppy package. The rod ends increase NVH but will reduce the bushing slop considerably.

The rod end could be replaced with a chunk of steel with a hole through it and the assemly would function in essentially the same way. (assuming there was no binding)

In practice, the rod end actually REDUCES the DOF of the assembly, because the in-out/up-down movement the rubber bushing allowed by flexing is limited by the rod end.

 

[03protege]

How much are 510's going for? They are cool as hell.

Looking at the google images it seems many of these have succumb to the "hella flush" nonsense, tis a shame.

 

[Zeke]

The OEM bushed joints function isn't limiting the DOF of the assembly in as many ways as you suggest, that is done by the strut and TC rod. What the OEM bushed joints did was NVH isolation, all in a wobbly, sloppy package. The rod ends increase NVH but will reduce the bushing slop considerably.

The rod end could be replaced with a chunk of steel with a hole through it and the assemly would function in essentially the same way. (assuming there was no binding)

In practice, the rod end actually REDUCES the DOF of the assembly, because the in-out/up-down movement the rubber bushing allowed by flexing is limited by the rod end.

That would be a great post if everyone could understand it. Are you lazy or are we all supposed to know what DOF means? NVH...TC?

 

[Big-Foot]

That would be a great post if everyone could understand it. Are you lazy or are we all supposed to know what DOF means? NVH...TC?

Careful there Zeke... We're all supposed to be impressed by EngineerSpeak!!!

 

[justanengineer]

Thanks for the explanation Zengineer.

That would be a great post if everyone could understand it. Are you lazy or are we all supposed to know what DOF means? NVH...TC?

Sorry Zeke. I was talking suspension travel. DOF = Degrees Of Freedom. Simply stated, the stock pinned joint can only rotate about one axis (1 DOF) compared to a single heim which can rotate about three planes. Zengineer explained how to limit the heim would be otherwise limited and only rotate like the pinned joint.

NVH = noise, vibration, harshness....more of a technician term than an engineering one, used to describe a vehicle "feels" to the driver.

 

[Zengineer]

Er, apologies. That's what the engineering degree is for really, just so you know what things are supposed to be called instead of "spinny thingy", "bendification" and "doohickey"

DOF and NVH are above, "TC Rod" is "Tension-Compression Rod" which were commonly used in Datsun front suspensions. Basically they turn the lower control arm into a triangle with the chassis, limiting fore and aft movement (eg: under braking).

 

[rockchucker]

Tons of pics but this is what I use on all of the Heim Joint associated Suspension Components I install. After install pump the Boot up full of some good Synthetic Wheel Bearing Grease. Either that or Marine Grade...

 

[NASTYZEN]

Well I'll be darned. Rod end condoms!
A step beyond what we use in formula racing cars. Looks like what you want for off road use though. Wonder what happens when they fill up with water??

 

[Ifixvws]

Tons of pics but this is what I use on all of the Heim Joint associated Suspension Components I install. After install pump the Boot up full of some good Synthetic Wheel Bearing Grease. Either that or Marine Grade...

Didn't want to copy all those pics but thank you. Im going to be picking up a set of those for sure.

Ill grab a pic of the front end in the am. I have the front together just for now. I want to make sure everything fits first. Then its all coming apart for paint and powder coating.

Chad

 

[Zengineer]

Sweet, haven't seen those before. Where do you find them?

 

[rockchucker]

Well I'll be darned. Rod end condoms!
A step beyond what we use in formula racing cars. Looks like what you want for off road use though. Wonder what happens when they fill up with water??

I am not sure. I usually pump them full of Grease before they leave the Shop! =) They work great pumped full of Marine Grade Wheel Bearing Grease.

Didn't want to copy all those pics but thank you. Im going to be picking up a set of those for sure.

Ill grab a pic of the front end in the am. I have the front together just for now. I want to make sure everything fits first. Then its all coming apart for paint and powder coating.

Chad

No worries. Glad to help.

Sweet, haven't seen those before. Where do you find them?

I get them from PowerTrix. Dudes name is Charles and he deals mostly in Suspension setups for Z's...

http://www.powertrix.com/




I am sure you can get them from most Automotive specialty shops or Off-Roading places. I would definitely call Charles first. He is a good guy and can probably help you out.