Magnesium wheel care

[Manowar]

I've got a set of 20 year old magnesium wheels with polished faces and machine finished backs. They are pristine but a b**** to keep that way here in the NE. The slightest humidity or moisture clouds and oxidizes them.

I have a regimen to store/restore/maintain them but it's very labor intensive and I'm looking for successful methods to cut the labor down. The car is laid-up for about 5 months of the year due to weather. The garage is unheated and gets to the mid 30's at worst of the winter. The humidity never stops.

I'd be glad to share what I do to keep them right if anyone cares but need fresh insight from experienced users. I need to work less hard to keep them stored.

I'm aware of Gibbs Brand penetrant which gets on-line raves from users but I'd like to hear your thoughts. I've tried Kroil, vaseline and just polishing them all the time. I like leaving them on the car 'cause it's easier to polish them- so I can't wrap them in cling wrap. If I just let them turn, they'll be junk in a year.

Ideas?

 

[RV77]

I have some old school wheels also so far I have wet sanded them w/ 2500 grit.I have heard of a product called "Sharkshide" and is used in the marine industry w/ great reviews.I am going to try it.

Have you tried putting newspaper in your wheels to soak up the moisture ?

 

[Manowar]

I have some old school wheels also so far I have wet sanded them w/ 2500 grit.I have heard of a product called "Sharkshide" and is used in the marine industry w/ great reviews.I am going to try it.

Have you tried putting newspaper in your wheels to soak up the moisture ?

Creeping,
I like your logo on the rollaway-my brand of choice too.
No never tried newspaper-no actual water gets to them, just very high humidity when doors are open during rain or snow. Coating them with vaseline has a limited benefit and oxidation still came from the inside out. But the vaso is terrible to get off in the spring.
Brace yourself; I use 50 grit emery on the backs when they're really bad and work to 150, 00 steel wool, 000 steel wool and then a light polish-this is on the backs. The faces don't get so bad (less brake dust) and generally 'only' need 00 steel wool, 0000, or maybe a gray scuff pad then Mothers white polish and a Powerball. Followed by a '********'...
Never tried Sharkhide thinking it may dull the high polish-what do you think?

 

[RV77]

I know you were talking about humidity "moisture".I have the same problem when its humid so try taking newspaper or the like and lay it around the wheels so it wont effect your wheels.

No it wont...Sharks-hide it like a clear coat thats sprayed on and last for a few months.Google it....its sounds interesting.

 

[pop pop]

You can put a dehumidifier in the garage. Just make sure it is capable of "low temp" operation. Might help a bit if you're getting condensation on the wheels.
Hate to tell you, but you are loosing this battle. You probably have aluminum wheels (maybe?) rather than magnesium, or mag alloy. Although there are some mag alloy wheels in the market. Aluminum is one of the most reactive metals in common use. It oxidizes chemically very rapidly. Doesn't need water, just O2, and it is everywhere. Mag is more reactive. Aluminum reacts quickly, instantaneously actually, and forms Al2O3, aluminum oxide. It covers the exterior and quickly protects the remaining aluminum substrate. Unfortunately it is not shiny. You might consider anodizing if you're desperate, but it will only slow down the process, but better than clear coat, which will work for a while, certainly better than polishes etc. Chrome plating helps, but then that defeats the look. What you are doing is abrasivly removing a layer of oxide when you buff them to get to the shiny aluminum (with a really thin coating of oxide), but it doesn't last. Sorry for the bad news.
Oh, FWIW, I worked in the al business for 35 yrs.

 

[Carl B]

I have a set of 5 American Racing LeMans mags from the early 70's. Gibbs is the best I've found so far to keep the rough cast spokes and entire non-polished surfaces from corroding. {if you leave them in their natural uncoated form}.

As for the polished rims.... I have to re-polish them about every 3 months here in Florida. At this point the best polish I've found is from Nuvite. They produce about a dozen "grades" depending on how smooth or rough your wheels are... but I only have to use their Grade "S" for final finish if I keep at it every 3 months.

If I let them go until they are quite dull .. then I have to start with their Grade "C".

Using the Nuvite NuShine II Metal Polish, along with their spun fiber pads - it cut the time needed to polish each wheel from about an hour to less than a half hour.

http://www.nuvitechemical.com/categories.asp?CategoryID=1&IndustryID=1

A 1/4 pound jar - will last you about two years. I cut their Spun Fiber Pads down in smaller strips to fit the polished lips of the wheels. Five of them have lasted me about two years now.. They are excellent to use with their polish.

Scroll down to the "Non-Abrasive Spun Fiber Pads"
http://www.nuvitechemical.com/categories.asp?CategoryID=7&IndustryID=2

Other than that - as far as I know - special cleaners, anodizing, primers and paints have to be used.

FWIW,
Carl B.

 

[unioncreek]

I have a set of mags on my 62 Galaxie. When I got them they were in terrible shape. I first used sandpaper then worked my way up to a buffer. We get 60 and 70% humidity during the winter, but summers are fairly dry, 20 - 30 %. The only thing I've done to mine is use Mother's polish on them. I figured I would be doing them every year, but it's been 5 years now and they still look good.

Bobg

 

[Carl B]

Brace yourself; I use 50 grit emery on the backs when they're really bad and work to 150, 00 steel wool, 000 steel wool and then a light polish-this is on the backs.

I don't know why you would polish the back of a mag wheel.. but I'd like to see it in order to understand. After mine were bead blasted, other than the polished rims - I let them turn their natural charcoal gray to black, using the Gibbs to prevent the formation of the green corrosion.

The faces don't get so bad (less brake dust) and generally 'only' need 00 steel wool, 0000, or maybe a gray scuff pad then Mothers white polish and a Powerball. Followed by a '********'...
Never tried Sharkhide thinking it may dull the high polish-what do you think?

Stop - - your making me cry All that steel wool and scuffing has to be taking a lot of material off...

Mother's is just "OK" for aluminum wheels, Billet is far better and does OK on the mags... but nothing comes close to the NuVite..

FWIW,
Carl B.

 

[Manowar]

Pop,
You're very right-it's a losing battle. I'm just trying to spread the maintenance time out further.
The wheels are Halibrands from the early 90's and are all mag. So they oxidize different than aluminum. You're also right, the abrasive work does remove material-they're getting lighter every year.
Carl,
That's a miracle that you're keeping mag alive since the early 70's!
Once about '96 or so, I had the as-cast centers lightly blasted to get back the gold/green cast of the mag. I then coated the centers with Duplicolor spray clear acrylic, which has held up to this day. The bad news is they turned dark gray anyway under the clear because of the brake heat. The centers and brake dust are very easy to clean however with WD-40 on a toilet paper pad. Secret: toilet paper is great to remove polish from the fronts-very thorough and gets it mirror clean.
You answered my question about Gibbs-good for as-cast, not good for high polish.
Thanks for the links-Nuvite sounds interesting. I will check that and Sharkhide.
My regular action on the polished sides is Mothers white applied with a heavy cotton rag by hand (0000 wool if they're gritty to the touch) or the Mini Powerball and drill. I've used Mr. Buffer and liked it but it did not last as long as the Mothers before clouding. Unfortunately, the more often you polish, the easier it is to get them 'back'.
Catch 22.

 

[Manowar]

I figured I would be doing them every year, but it's been 5 years now and they still look good.

Bobg

Dude,
You HAVE to have aluminum wheels and are calling them 'mag wheels'. Mag never lasts that long. Maybe you have something like the chromed Cragar 'mags' (which are actually steel)?

 

[Carl B]

Pop,
The bad news is they turned dark gray anyway under the clear because of the brake heat.

N0 - Cast Magnesium Alloy wheels - are a dull silver when cast, then they naturally turn charcoal gray, then on to dark gray to almost black. That is their natural state.

Left untreated they will form a light green petina {layer of corrosion/oxide}. If that is left for prolonged periods it wil form pits in the surface. As these pits grow larger over time they can weaken the castings.

If you have them bead blasted - they will come out looking a dull silver again.

If you look at the single wheel show below the picture of the car here - you will see that it looks silver. Then about a year later you see the wheel on the car in the picture of the car.
http://zhome.com/Racing/BahaBREZ.htm

Most Cast Magnesium wheels are cast with a Date Stamp - as they do have a short shelf life. While my LeMans wheels were originally built for competition - I only use them for show today. {certainly wouldn't put them on the track or highway at high speeds}.

FWIW,
Carl B.

 

[Manowar]

N0 - Cast Magnesium Alloy wheels - are a dull silver when cast, then they naturally turn charcoal gray, then on to dark gray to almost black. That is their natural state.
Left untreated they will form a light green petina {layer of corrosion/oxide}.

Interesting Carl-I think we may have had different experiences with our wheels. Here's a front, right after blasting and just before I coated them (same day) Note the gold/green cast. It is NOT spray painted or Dow chromated to look gold. They are raw. Note the lips are not highly polished yet either.

Fast-forward to today, here's the rear and you can see they grayed as you said-but under the clear. I always felt the heat turned them because I did not leave them raw-they were over-coated. Did not think they would turn under the clear so that's why I figured the heat did it.

You're wise to use yours for display only. But I now only street drive these (but hard) but have used them in autocross, road course and drag strip. I inspect them very frequently and they're holding up great. Have changed 6 sets of tires over the years so the bead-to-bead area gets inspected regularly.

 

[JDMopar]

There is a product called RPM, that should do what you need. It's marketed at mostly folks wanting the raw steel look on parts unfinished from the factory, but is supposed to work well on aluminum and magnesium wheels to preserve the shine. I saw a set of old school ET Slots coated with it after being polished, and they looked great. Hope this helps.

http://ecsautomotive.com/rpm.php

 

[Manowar]

Thanks JD-expensive but may be worth it. Some great tips and links coming out. I will research all of them.

 

[Munich77]

Have you looked into some of the recent coatings that are available for car paint - they might work on the wheels.

 

[Manowar]

Have you looked into some of the recent coatings that are available for car paint - they might work on the wheels.

Not sure what type of coatings you mean. I have tried paste wax in the past with no good result. It dulls the shine of high polish and they still oxidize in a short time. Again-I think heat is a factor.

 

[Carl B]

Hi Manowar:
I'm certainly not an expert on casting/forging mag. alloy wheels - or anything else for that matter. My experience is mostly from the use of magnesium alloys for parts in the Aerospace/Defense arena. Even then the guys in our Materials Lab's handled all the specifications.

So I can't say that it is impossible for a magnesium alloy to come out a natural gold/green.

Personally - I've never seen a mag. alloy casting/forging come out anything other than a dull silver to start with, although I have seen several different anodizing process and plating processes applied for different uses or purposes. Machined surfaces will come out very shinny silver almost chrome looking - and can be kept that way via polishing.

I had to put my old mag's on a lathe and take a few thousands off the lips to remove some minor pitting - made polishing them up a breeze as well ;-)

Since most people believe that the original Halibrand mag. alloy wheels were plated/treated with Dow7 to prevent corrosion - I also doubt that the newer production in the 90's would have used that. The old wheels that were treated to Dow7 - also turned gray/black over a short time as well.

Interesting that whatever it is - it survived bead blasting.

Great looking wheels by the way..

Oh yes - for a quick clean up - or quick maintenance before the wheels have really gone DULL - I've always used Nevr-Dull cotton wadding. Another great metal cleaning product - good on stainless and chrome as well.
http://www.nevrdull.com/

Call the guys at NuVite - tell them what you have - and ask them for their recommendations. Or E-Mail them. They have 50+ years of metal polishing experience in the aircraft industry and they really know their stuff. Their products are not inexpensive - about $25.00 for a 1/4 pound.. but it goes an amazingly long way as it takes very very little material to attain great results.


FWIW,
Carl B.

 

[rsanter]

if you have real mag wheels, not just the aluminum with a little magnesium in it alloy they you have several issues to deal with...

1 real mag wheel will degrade intermolecularly. that is that it is not just surface corrosion but the whel will also be corroding from the inside out and you cant stop it.
if this is what you have I would be very carefull in actually using these wheels because if you stress them they can break. you cannot tell the internal condition based on how they look.
I had a set and I could hardly keep air in them. tried several things to figure where it was leaking and then someone tiped me as to how those old racing wheels are so I took one off tire and all and submerged it in the pool. I wasamazed to see bubbles forming on the surface of the metal on the back side. the air was comming right through the metal which is a sure sign of internal deteriation.
I ended up painting the inside and back side of the wheels and clearcoating the front side to reduce the leakage very little

have yo ever seen the old race cars with the mag wheels. they used to paint the wheels silver or gold. that is bacause you cannot keep them from corroding and it was easier for them to just paint them verses them look like ****

bob

 

[abstamaria]

I have had to live with magnesium wheels for several decades and used to go racing (very friendly vintage racing) in two 1960s English cars that used magnesium wheels. The problem with magnesium, as you know, is that corrosion doesn't stop at the surface (as in aluminum) but keeps penetrating. In a badly corroded wheel, one can break chunks off (I know). For racing, I would set the original wheels aside and use new ones. Newspaper might just encourage corrosion. A dehumudifier and WD40 should help. Now regarding treatment -

Here is a process that I used successfully, based on notes I took from an aircraft maintenance book many years ago. In some car chat sites (vintage Ferrari, for instance), the general recommendation is to go to a specialist. I agree with that. If you want to do it yourself, this procedure I set out below might help you.

Andy

"SURFACE TREATMENT FOR MAGNESIUM

1. Remove all WD40, etc., with lacquer thinner.
2. Apply paint remover, let soak, and remove with plastic scrapers. Do not use metal scrapers or wet-and-dry sandpaper.
3. Rinse thoroughly.
4. Wear rubber gloves.
5. Mix Alumiprep 33 (1 part Alumiprep to 5 parts water for light oxidation, I part Alumiprep to 2 to 3 parts water for heavy oxidation).
6. Brush the Alumiprep solution on the magnesium item, scrubbing oxidized parts with synthetic abrasive. DO NOT ALLOW TO DRY.
7. Rinse thoroughly until water sheets and does not bead.
8. While surface still wet, apply Alodine 1201 with a brush. DO NOT ALLOW TO DRY. About 2 to 5 minutes treatment time. Surface should turn gold.
9. Rinse thoroughly with cold water until water sheets and does not bead.
10. Follow with a warm water rinse (not over 140O F).
11. Let dry for 24 hours. Handle carefully at this stage.
12. Paint when dry."

 

[Manowar]

Sincere thanks to posters #17, 18, and 19. Some great insights based on personal and professional experience. I will chew on all those ideas and advice.
Abstamaria-I hope your point #10 should read '140 F'!
1400 is a little above boiling point.

 

[abstamaria]

Good catch, manowar! That was "O" typed in superscript (for degrees), but the format didn't translate well. Good luck (and be careful with the chemicals).

Andy

 

[abstamaria]

And don't use steel-wool. The steel particles embed themselves in the magnesium, causing all sorts of problems. Or so I've read.

Andy

 

[kerryt1]

Good catch, manowar! That was "O" typed in superscript (for degrees), but the format didn't translate well. Good luck (and be careful with the chemicals).

Andy

Off topic, but typing ALT+0176 will give you a degree symbol, like so.. °

Now back to your regularly scheduled discussion (which is quite interesting to me).

 

[abstamaria]

Thanks, Kerryt1. I must remember that.

Lovely Hallibrandss, manowar. Unfortunately, painting (and the treatment I suggested) will not be suitable for the look, except perhaps for the backsides. Weren't the centers on GT40s painted?

I used Mothers mag polish on the polished rims of my old race car. I didn't need to polish often, but then I have dehumidifier in my garage that keeps humidity at about 55%.

Andy

 

[Manowar]

Lovely Hallibrandss, manowar. Unfortunately, painting (and the treatment I suggested) will not be suitable for the look, except perhaps for the backsides. Weren't the centers on GT40s painted?
Andy

Some cars went to the races with the Dow chromate gold centers but they led hard lives and tire changes during the races had unfinished wheels put in place. Here is 1016 at LeMans in '66-no finish on them.

Most of the pictures you see today are of (over) restored cars which the owners dress up with gold centers or complete rims.
Thanks for the kind words about mine. The GT rims are slightly different in the webs than the Cobra II's on mine. Thanks for the tip about steel wool. I wish I could do what Carl does and lathe them and take .001" off at a time...

To CarlB: I neglected to answer a question you asked about polishing my rims back sides. I do that to keep the corrosion at bay and preserve their life as long as possible. As said earlier, it's a losing battle. Also the brake dust really attacks the surface and I have to bring them 'back from the dead' to get the surface clean again. Plus, I'm **** about them...

 

[Carl B]

To CarlB: I neglected to answer a question you asked about polishing my rims back sides. I do that to keep the corrosion at bay and preserve their life as long as possible. As said earlier, it's a losing battle. Also the brake dust really attacks the surface and I have to bring them 'back from the dead' to get the surface clean again. Plus, I'm **** about them...

I completely understand

Just as a point of information for anyone following along -
The wheels left completely un-cared for will form a light green patina. I initially had my first set bead blasted to remove it.

Since my car originally had a spare mounted on the same wheels - I needed to find a second set of the LeMans wheels... which took over two years. Also had to buy a complete set of 4 as no one wanted to break up a set. This set had "issues" but I did get one good wheel to use and the other three would only be good for a display.

Nonetheless by then I had learned a little more about them... On the second set - I soaked that light green patina with Gibbs Gun Oil rather than having them bead blasted - - and within a couple days they were returned to their natural dark gray appearance. All corrosion and that green Patina were gone. Then the only thing I had to do was put one on the lathe and turn the lip.

I leave the back side of mine in their natural dark gray - I do have to remove them from the car about once or twice per year to assure they are kept covered with Gibbs.

I do drive the Z on nice weekends - just to keep everything in running order. But I can't go too far as I have to run 110 octane racing fuel - which I can't stop and get anywhere! Nonetheless brake dust isn't so much a problem for me. YMMV

The NuVite Metal Polish - keeps them looking bright and shinny for about twice as long as anything else I've found. According to the guys at NuVite the more highly you polish them with their Grade "S" - the longer it lasts on the wheel.

If you are polishing the entire back side of the wheels - I think you'll be very pleased with the effectiveness of their Spun Fiber pads used with their polish.

FWIW,
Carl B.

 

[Manowar]

I completely understand

Just as a point of information for anyone following along -
The wheels left completely un-cared for will form a light green patina. I initially had my first set bead blasted to remove it.

Since my car originally had a spare mounted on the same wheels - I needed to find a second set of the LeMans wheels... which took over two years. Also had to buy a complete set of 4 as no one wanted to break up a set. This set had "issues" but I did get one good wheel to use and the other three would only be good for a display.

Nonetheless by then I had learned a little more about them... On the second set - I soaked that light green patina with Gibbs Gun Oil rather than having them bead blasted - - and within a couple days they were returned to their natural dark gray appearance. All corrosion and that green Patina were gone. Then the only thing I had to do was put one on the lathe and turn the lip.

I leave the back side of mine in their natural dark gray - I do have to remove them from the car about once or twice per year to assure they are kept covered with Gibbs.

I do drive the Z on nice weekends - just to keep everything in running order. But I can't go too far as I have to run 110 octane racing fuel - which I can't stop and get anywhere! Nonetheless brake dust isn't so much a problem for me. YMMV

The NuVite Metal Polish - keeps them looking bright and shinny for about twice as long as anything else I've found. According to the guys at NuVite the more highly you polish them with their Grade "S" - the longer it lasts on the wheel.

If you are polishing the entire back side of the wheels - I think you'll be very pleased with the effectiveness of their Spun Fiber pads used with their polish.

FWIW,
Carl B.

Thanks for posting some snaps-I was about to ask! They look spectacular-and they're two (?) decades older than mine.
The pics answer a lot of questions I had but leave some too. Yours look very 'solid' and have a new-cast appearance about them. The bolt holes look particularly good.
I'm guessing you and I have different mag alloys. Were yours cast by Datsun in Japan, or an aftermarket supplier like Enkei? May account for our different experiences with them. I think mine were cast in or around Torrance by Halibrand.
If I owned yours, I would not high polish the lips like mine, I would leave them as your picture shows. That Gibbs Gun Oil looks like it's doing just what I want for my wheel backs. I don't have high polish there, more like a Centerline aluminum drag wheel machined look. I've only cleaned all the backs with WD-40 and wiped in a coat of Kroil as you see them here. Last year at this time, they were much worse-crusty dark gray. I had to do major work with the emery wet and wool-I know guys-don't yell at me.
I just shot a couple fast snaps to show. The back of this front wheel is just a touch darker gray than shows here-fill-in flash. You can see very small surface 'craters' (not raised pits) in some areas. Even though coated with anti-seize when mounted, you can see some metal transfer from the steel hub on the mounting face. The front side is as close to mirror polish as I have gotten-will try the new products advised in this thread.

I really appreciate the advice and response to this thread-it's a most helpful discussion.
Now, hijacking my own thread Carl, what is your CR that you need to run race gas? I run 93 octane here (which is loaded with the fed ****) on 10.5:1 at 38 degrees advance. I've run C-14 at the track and it runs much sharper and easily holds 40 degrees advance.
I'm guessing you run big cam and Webers with ported head??

 

[pop pop]

Manowar, my bad. I am accustomed to assuming most "mag" wheels are aluminum or painted steel havind lots of empyt hats bragging on their fakes. You have the real McCoy and they look good! Unfortunately I don't know how to maintain mag alloys, but you have been given some correct metallurgical information above. Keep an eye on them for safety reasons! Seriously consider the dehumidifier as that would help you more than those with aluminum.

Is that an original Shelby? I have one riding by here on nice days. I can hear it is a big block Ford, but think it is a repo. Will flag him down this summer for sure. Us Corvette guys can appreciate your car!

 

[ZRX61]

Another vote for Dow 7.

 

[Manowar]

Keep an eye on them for safety reasons! Seriously consider the dehumidifier as that would help you more than those with aluminum.

Is that an original Shelby? I have one riding by here on nice days. I can hear it is a big block Ford, but think it is a repo. Will flag him down this summer for sure. Us Corvette guys can appreciate your car!

I do Pop, check them all the time. Dehumidifier won't work for me as it gets as low as the mid 30's in the garage and I have to open doors to get the GD snow blower out!
Thanks for the kind words from a Bowtie guy. I built it. It IS a real Sideoiler with real Halibrands however. 550 HP in 2650 pounds is as real as I could get it.

ZRX- X2 on the Dow. I'd do it if they were newer and I could afford it...

 

[Munich77]

Not sure what type of coatings you mean. I have tried paste wax in the past with no good result. It dulls the shine of high polish and they still oxidize in a short time. Again-I think heat is a factor.

Take a look on autopia.org at opticoat. People use it on clear coated wheels to prevent the dust from sticking. It is great stuff.

 

[Manowar]

Take a look on autopia.org at opticoat. People use it on clear coated wheels to prevent the dust from sticking. It is great stuff.

I searched autopia.org and there are huge warnings that the site spreads malware.
Then i searched Opticoat and found it's a legimate site and product.
Unfortunately it will not solve my situation because it keeps contaminants out-like a hard shell. With magnesium, the contaminants and corrosion come from within the material-not what I need.

 

[abstamaria]

Those are ground-shakers, manowar, Carl! I have quick, little cars with little engines in comparison. Here is one magnesium wheel from two sets I bought new from England for racing about 15 years ago. I immediately treated the wheels as I described and painted them. I was tempted to keep them unpainted; they had a deep brown black finish when new. It is an extremely light wheel, especially with those period competition tires.

Thanks for the GT40 photo, manowar. To digress, my dream at the moment is a Superformance GT40 in Gulf colors. That would come with the BRM wheels with painted centers, yes? Also, a good friend has a real, unrestored 427 Cobra, which up to now has the ability to frighten me. We were lucky to have Carroll Shelby and Phil Hill over for a few days in about 1997. We rolled the Cobra into the lobby of the hotel we billeted them in before they arrived. They were so surprised to see it as they walked in. We had to take down a glass window to get the Cobra in, but it was worth it. Phil Hill put his hand on the Cobra and said "I feel very strongly that I have driven this car."

Now back to magnesium.

Andy

 

[Carl B]

Thanks for posting some snaps-I was about to ask! They look spectacular-and they're two (?) decades older than mine.
The pics answer a lot of questions I had but leave some too. Yours look very 'solid' and have a new-cast appearance about them. The bolt holes look particularly good.

Hi Manowar:
I was very lucky to get that first set. They were actually used by BRE on another car in the 70's. I mentioned that most mag's are date stamped - in the picture below you can see the 6-12-69 date of mfg.

I'm guessing you and I have different mag alloys. Were yours cast by Datsun in Japan, or an aftermarket supplier like Enkei? May account for our different experiences with them. I think mine were cast in or around Torrance by Halibrand.

I would guess that our wheels are alloyed differently as well. My wheels were produced by American Racing and the model name is LeMans. American Racing also made an aluminum four spoke that looks somewhat the same and they are Libras in a four spoke - and Daisy or 200-S in a five spoke.

If I owned yours, I would not high polish the lips like mine, I would leave them as your picture shows.

Agreed that would have been a lot less hassle - but I restored them to the same cosmetic appearance as used/ran on the car by BRE.

That Gibbs Gun Oil looks like it's doing just what I want for my wheel backs. I don't have high polish there, more like a Centerline aluminum drag wheel machined look. I've only cleaned all the backs with WD-40 and wiped in a coat of Kroil as you see them here. Last year at this time, they were much worse-crusty dark gray. I had to do major work with the emery wet and wool-I know guys-don't yell at me.

A couple friends used WD-40 before switching to Gibbs. I love Kroil, but never tried it on the mag.'s. The guys in our Materials Lab suggested Gibbs so I went with that.

As you mentioned - we may be dealing with slightly different alloys - but I'd be tempted to try coating the back sides with Gibbs.

I just shot a couple fast snaps to show. The back of this front wheel is just a touch darker gray than shows here-fill-in flash. You can see very small surface 'craters' (not raised pits) in some areas.

As I understand it - First you will see a white powder that indicates corrosion is taking place. Then if the wheels start to form that light green patina it forms raised pits {your term}, but if you remove the patina the wheels are crater'ed under the raised pits. In other words, that white powder and light green patina grows by eating the mag alloy - and that in turn causes the craters.

The Gibbs seems to dissolve that without leaving craters.

Even though coated with anti-seize when mounted, you can see some metal transfer from the steel hub on the mounting face. The front side is as close to mirror polish as I have gotten-will try the new products advised in this thread.

Other than putting a gasket of some sort between dissimilar metals - I don't know of a way to get around the metal transfer that takes place.

I really appreciate the advice and response to this thread-it's a most helpful discussion.
Now, hijacking my own thread Carl, what is your CR that you need to run race gas? I run 93 octane here (which is loaded with the fed ****) on 10.5:1 at 38 degrees advance. I've run C-14 at the track and it runs much sharper and easily holds 40 degrees advance.
I'm guessing you run big cam and Webers with ported head??

If you are a Cobra fan - I'm sure you know who Peter Brock is.

The Z was built by BRE {Brock Racing Enterprises} for the Baja 500 & 1000 in 1973. Driven by Peter Brock and Lee Midgley. Compression is 13.5:1 on the L24 {just under 2.5 liter}. Because the Z ran in a "Production Sports/GT" class, it runs the factory S.U.'s {although slightly modified internally}. A lot of head work was allowed so ported/polished/port matched and larger valves etc, - but it ran a relatively mild cam. Endurance was more important than shear HP. The engine produces the best HP at 34/35 degrees of advance.

When I had the original racing engine rebuilt - I actual told the shop to DROP the compression ratio - I had no plans to vintage race it. I wanted flat top pistons installed instead of the pop-ups that were originally in there. Due to a mix up between "management" and the engine builder over time - the engine was rebuilt to "as raced" spec.'s. After waiting for six months to get the engine done - I just took it as it was, rather than have them tear it down again. Have to admit that 225+ HP in a 2200 lb Z is FUN.

BTW - I looked for a side-oiler for years - just wanted one for display! The price on them went out of sight so I gave up on that idea. Amazing engines with a lot of history.. I too have enjoyed this discussion and I hope we didn't get too far off topic.

FWIW,
Carl B.

 

[Manowar]

Thanks for the GT40 photo, manowar. To digress, my dream at the moment is a Superformance GT40 in Gulf colors. That would come with the BRM wheels with painted centers, yes?

Andy-love Elans and Sevens! Great car and can probably out-corner my car!
Yes, the GT has been a fav of mine since they made their legend. Respectfully suggest you consult ERA Replicas about their GT-40 in either MK I or II configurations. Dead accurate and first class engineering and assembly. My Cobra is an ERA and I built it so I'm their biggest fan. Also respectfully, what ever you do don't power it with a Roush-poor value for the price and performance and reliability problems.

Hi Manowar:
I would guess that our wheels are alloyed differently as well. My wheels were produced by American Racing and the model name is LeMans. American Racing also made an aluminum four spoke that looks somewhat the same and they are Libras in a four spoke - and Daisy or 200-S in a five spoke.

I know the brands very well-just can't remember S*** anymore!

If you are a Cobra fan - I'm sure you know who Peter Brock is.

With Phil Remington, one of the 'less-sung' heros of the Cobra saga and a class guy.

When I had the original racing engine rebuilt - I actual told the shop to DROP the compression ratio - I had no plans to vintage race it. I wanted flat top pistons installed instead of the pop-ups that were originally in there. Due to a mix up between "management" and the engine builder over time - the engine was rebuilt to "as raced" spec.'s. After waiting for six months to get the engine done - I just took it as it was, rather than have them tear it down again. Have to admit that 225+ HP in a 2200 lb Z is FUN.

Fascinating story and, having just reviewed your restoration thread, a spectacular inside-out job over many years. Also a rather unusual subject and probably extremely rare. Superb job.

BTW - I looked for a side-oiler for years - just wanted one for display! The price on them went out of sight so I gave up on that idea. Amazing engines with a lot of history.. I too have enjoyed this discussion and I hope we didn't get too far off topic.
.

My thread, remember??
We surely have this in common. Mine is a standard bore 427 so it's pretty rare these days. 2.25" intakes, .633" cam and all the forged parts. Today there is a thriving (but expensive) aftermarket of FE's with three ally blocks and two irons by three manufacturers. Heads, cranks and more with displacements to 527" and power outputs routinely between 600-650HP. If you've got $45K burning a hole in your pocket, a Cammer can be built touching 800 HP.
Here's my now-puny 550 HP :

PS-Carl-you have a PM.

 

[Carl B]

My thread, remember??
We surely have this in common. Mine is a standard bore 427 so it's pretty rare these days.

Hi Manowar:
Oh WOW.. that is just stunning!! I "refreshed" a 1969 428 CJ Cougar Eliminator many years ago. Had to find a correct date stamped, standard bore block for that... That seemed to take forever - I can't imagine looking for a standard bore 427.. Did someone have a NOS crate motor stuck away somewhere? I recall one person about 15 to 20 years ago that had two of them for sale - but it was way out of my price range at the time.

Those are ground-shakers, manowar, Carl! I have quick, little cars with little engines in comparison.

Hi Andy:
In 1964 I visited the "Sports Car Emporium" in Columbus, Ohio for the first time. They had a Lotus Elite sitting on the showroom floor - and it was the first time I had seen one in person. I was HOOKED.. Couldn't afford it at the time {College Student}... and I've wanted one ever since. But never found one for sale that I could afford. I still want that 1963 model.. but that's not going to happen these days!! Seems they wanted about $4,500.00 for it at that time...

FWIW,
Carl B.

 

[abstamaria]

mag wheels from the other side of the pond

I visited ERA several times, Manowar, the last time in 2005. I had decided on a Mark I GT40 then, but it was just so difficult then to close the order. I know ERA has had good customer-relation reviews, but perhaps they were very busy at the time. There was just one fellow, I forget his name, handling the sales. He was very pleasant, but just so difficult to get hold of and took a long time processing paper work. I bought another car instead. Now Superformance is around, promising greater parts interchangeability with the real item.

I do like ERA’s products, especially the Cobras. In a weak moment, I was considering their 289 FIA.

That is a stunning engine, Manowar. You are obsessive-compulsive (in a good way) with more than your wheels!

Carl, Manowar, I’m glad both of you like the little green cars. The Elite remains a dream car for me, but that is probably all it will be now. They are hard to find and getting mighty expensive. One very good example was being offered the other month for US$100,000.

To get back to magnesium wheels, I found this photo of the 23 I had for a decade but have already sold. The magnesium wheels (fondly known as “Wobbly Webs” in Lotus circles) are still the 1960s items in that photo, although I had a new set for safety. The paint has kept them in good condition. The polished rims are courtesy of Mothers mag polish. It may also have helped that this was a California car and lived its later years, before I bought it in ’97, in Arizona.

Andy

 

[pop pop]

I do Pop, check them all the time. Dehumidifier won't work for me as it gets as low as the mid 30's in the garage and I have to open doors to get the GD snow blower out!
Thanks for the kind words from a Bowtie guy. I built it. It IS a real Sideoiler with real Halibrands however. 550 HP in 2650 pounds is as real as I could get it.

ZRX- X2 on the Dow. I'd do it if they were newer and I could afford it...

Nice piece of work there. Only other advice is to move south! We could use you in our neighborhood!

 

[Manowar]

Re: mag wheels from the other side of the pond

I visited ERA several times, Manowar, the last time in 2005. I had decided on a Mark I GT40 then, but it was just so difficult then to close the order. I know ERA has had good customer-relation reviews, but perhaps they were very busy at the time. There was just one fellow, I forget his name, handling the sales. He was very pleasant, but just so difficult to get hold of and took a long time processing paper work.

I do like ERA’s products, especially the Cobras. In a weak moment, I was considering their 289 FIA.

To get back to magnesium wheels, I found this photo of the 23 I had for a decade but have already sold. The magnesium wheels (fondly known as “Wobbly Webs” in Lotus circles) are still the 1960s items in that photo, although I had a new set for safety. The paint has kept them in good condition.

That would be Peter P.-one of the principals of the company. Peter is aging like coarse wine-I MEAN-fine wine. And yes, he's always busy. Ask for Bob Putnam next time-Bob will get you through.
Since you almost swooned for the FIA, they are now producing the Slabside street car. A purists delight, dead accurate and they are very popular. Check their site and hide your checkbook.

Thanks for the kind words on mine-thank you too Pop.

Andy, can you tell me the steps involved in painting your as-cast mags yellow? Some Cobra guys paint their wheels with white centers and matching sidepipes. Think they're only the aluminum Trigo repops, not the mags like mine.
I always wondered how you keep white, rough cast centers clean of brake dust...

 

[Munich77]

I searched autopia.org and there are huge warnings that the site spreads malware.
Then i searched Opticoat and found it's a legimate site and product.
Unfortunately it will not solve my situation because it keeps contaminants out-like a hard shell. With magnesium, the contaminants and corrosion come from within the material-not what I need.

Thanks for the heads up - never had a problem with autopia. Opticoat is great stuff - but I guess it is wrong for your use.