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Magnetic Interference

Natas Kapas

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Is it possible for a rare earth magnet to alter the signals being sent between an 02 sensor and the on board pc if it's sitting right next to the electrical wires of the 02?

Thanks.
 
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rlitman

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No.

Since this forum will not accept a post as short as the line above, I will add that magnets do not work that way.
 

MFolks

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I'd think if the magnet was moving,the inductance would affect the signal,not if the magnet is stationary though.
 

Gerald O

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If there is a transformer or a ferrite cored inductor on the circuit board that lies in the presence of a static magnetic field then that can alter their electrical characteristics.

Further, all current carrying wires are surrounded by a magnetic field. If there is an alternating current in the wire that is in the presence of a static magnetic field, Then the wire will be alternately attracted toward and repelled by the magnet. This can set up a physical vibration that can induce secondary unintended electrical currents in the wire as a side effect.

However, O2 sensors have a very slow-changing voltage -- essentially DC, with very little current. So long as the wires are not moving from vibration in the magnetic field then no noise currents will be induced.
 

rlitman

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My comments inline in blue:

If there is a transformer or a ferrite cored inductor on the circuit board that lies in the presence of a static magnetic field then that can alter their electrical characteristics.

We ALL lie in the presence of a static magnetic field. The Earth has a significant one. Driving your car in circles does not affect performance.

Further, all current carrying wires are surrounded by a magnetic field. If there is an alternating current in the wire that is in the presence of a static magnetic field, Then the wire will be alternately attracted toward and repelled by the magnet. This can set up a physical vibration that can induce secondary unintended electrical currents in the wire as a side effect.

The wire will also be attracted to the steel in the car. Being that you've created an electromagnet with ZERO windings, the magnetic forces exerted on the wire will be similar to the electrostatic forces it experiences due to the capacitive coupling with the vehicle frame, i.e. negligible. Each time the driver breathes, the vibration will move the wire more.

However, O2 sensors have a very slow-changing voltage -- essentially DC, with very little current...

I suppose you have never seen the output of an O2 sensor on an oscilloscope. They are most certainly not DC.
 
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Natas Kapas

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If there is a transformer or a ferrite cored inductor on the circuit board that lies in the presence of a static magnetic field then that can alter their electrical characteristics.

Further, all current carrying wires are surrounded by a magnetic field. If there is an alternating current in the wire that is in the presence of a static magnetic field, Then the wire will be alternately attracted toward and repelled by the magnet. This can set up a physical vibration that can induce secondary unintended electrical currents in the wire as a side effect.

However, O2 sensors have a very slow-changing voltage -- essentially DC, with very little current. So long as the wires are not moving from vibration in the magnetic field then no noise currents will be induced.


Rare earth magnets are much stronger than your ordinary ones, as I'm sure you know, and this one was right up against the 02 wires which I'm sure vibrate while the vehicle is running. The reason I'm asking is I just want to eliminate that as a possible cause to a P code.

Correct me if I'm wrong but it sounds to me as if you're saying that it is possible for the magnet to alter the signal.
 
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dogdog

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I am wondering if you bought into some crackScience gadget that save you fuels ?


^^^
(Reason saying that is there are usually no magnets or ferrite rings anywhere along the O2 wiring.)


I think a strong enough magnet will distort the signal... but a magnet in the wiring will never increase gas economy or performance but might increase imaginary horse power.
 
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Gerald O

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My comments inline in blue:
My comments were within the context of an extremely strong magnetic field as asked by the OP, and are simplified to apply directly to the question. Modern "rare earth" magnets commonly have magnetic fields on the order of 30MGOe; your comparisons with earth's magnetic field is laughable. With over 30 years experience as an electronics design engineer I stand by my comments.
 
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Gerald O

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Rare earth magnets are much stronger than your ordinary ones, as I'm sure you know, and this one was right up against the 02 wires which I'm sure vibrate while the vehicle is running. The reason I'm asking is I just want to eliminate that as a possible cause to a P code.

Correct me if I'm wrong but it sounds to me as if you're saying that it is possible for the magnet to alter the signal.
I'm saying that it is possible to affect the signal within the limited circumstances I described, but very unlikely to affect it enough to cause a problem.
 
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Natas Kapas

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I am wondering if you bought into some crackScience gadget that save you fuels ?


^^^
(Reason saying that is there are usually no magnets or ferrite rings anywhere along the O2 wiring.)


I think a strong enough magnet will distort the signal... but a magnet in the wiring will never increase gas economy or performance but might increase imaginary horse power.


No nothing like that. I had a piece of pipe band strap loop around that wires and instead of screwing to the oil pan I used the magnet to hold it in place. I was having issues of the wires getting damaged from off roading.
 
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Natas Kapas

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I'm saying that it is possible to affect the signal within the limited circumstances I described, but very unlikely to affect it enough to cause a problem.

Thanks. And thanks to everyone else for very quick replies. Much appreciated.
 

DSMR

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My friend Maxwell says that yes it could be possible.

If Magnetic flux crosses a conductor, a current would be induced. Same idea for a transformer.

Would have to be a moving magnetic field and such and it would produce a current orthogonal to the moving magnetic vector field.

o2 sensor reading at the processor of your car brain is stoich at roughly 0.5VDC which is not too many dancing pixies to get a reading. IIRC anything over 1/2 a volt seen would read as rich but the sensor (using Nernst Cell) is only accurate at 0.5VDC.

So the answer is... Maybe but not likely (Mythbuster plausible I guess??). Would be neat to check though.
 
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