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Magnetic Starters, what I learned.

Badasssapper67

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Sep 24, 2012
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Molalla Oregon
I have a "project" air compressor. 80gal tank, two stage pump, 5 hp 3 phase motor.
I bought a single phase 5 hp Baldor off ebay, installed it and learned a lot about industria equipment and how things are done in that kind of field. I've worked on a lot of cars and trucks, but not so much industrial.

#1 priority was to see if it run. It didn't run when I bought so I put the motor on and yep, she ran like a champ. But I knew to do it right I should put a mag starter on it.
I hate when I dont know stuff about things because I cant justify spending a lot more money for the stuff with American names. It's like ordering Chinese food at a restaurant where there's no explanation of what the food is.
So I bought a shindinzhou or something starter and crossed my fingers. Now the journey begins......
Before this, mag starters were majic. A little box full of pixies and demons that somehow made machines start. Im glad I saw this through, I love learning new things.
There's numbers all over this thing and all the advice I found on the net was not for a guy at my level which was pretty much zero. The directions instantly made me wish I bought something with a name like Honeywell, wow, they were written for someone that already knew what to do.
I wired it up and ta-da! Nothing. I pushed the button in the middle and it tried to start, but when I removed my finger, nothing. I quickly began asking myself if this starter was necessary but I knew I had to do this right and see it through.
Research, research, videos, forums, anything except asking my Dad, whose an electrician. im old enough to be a grand father but I still do things hoping to make him proud. I guess that means he did one hell of a good job being my dad.
It all comes down to the pressure switch. I had a notion in my head that was wrong and that notion is what kept everything from working.
What I was doing wrong was I was running power from the wall to the pressure switch then to the starter. Which is the only way I had ever known but is wrong.
To wire the starter right, power goes to the starter first, then one wire runs to ONE side of the pressure switch. On the same contact point side a wire runs from that side of the pressure switch BACK to the magnetic starter. When pressure builds, the contact points on the pressure switch open, the current going to the coil in the magnetic starter is broken and the motor stops. When the pressure switch contacts close, power then flows from the magnetic starter TO the pressure switch on that one wire and through the contacts back to the mag starter's coil energizing that coil and closing the circuit sending power to the motor and it runs.
To summarize, when you're done there will not be a total of four wires on your pressure switch. You will not be using TWO legs on the pressure switch. You will have a wire coming FROM the mag starter going TO the pressure switch on one leg only supplying power. You will complete that ONE LEG by running a wire from the same contact point back to the mag starter. This is HALF of what you used to have on the pressure switch.
Once I got that point, all the videos made sense. All the tutorials and forums made sense.
I hope that is helpful.
:beer:
 
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Chris705

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Nov 1, 2012
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The Finger Lakes of NY
Badass - you've help one person understand this concept....I have also scored a really nice 80 gallon industrial air gold 5hp 3p unit at an online industrial surplus auction site. I am on the look out for a 5hp single phase motor and was wondering about the talk on various threads about pressure switches and magnetic starters and if you needed one or not.... What you have detailed above makes much more sense! Thank you for taking the time to write it up as detailed as you have.....

On your new motor....I assume you researched before buying...what did you end up with? Same RPM as the old 3 phase unit? Can I ask were you purchased it from?

Chris
 

Todd.Brock

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Cincinnati
I bought a compressor with a three phase mag starter. It was a little rough but usable. I must have read things fifty times. Finally found a diagram that made sense. The Pressure switch acts as a light switch. I bought a new pressure switch with off/auto on knob. That way I could leave the compressor plugged into the wall and still have a positive means to disconnect the compressor. I do this because I go weeks at a time not using the compressor and the tank has a slow leak. This keeps it from cycling other than when I am using it.
 

wyliesdiesels

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Modesto, CA
I bought a compressor with a three phase mag starter. It was a little rough but usable. I must have read things fifty times. Finally found a diagram that made sense. The Pressure switch acts as a light switch. I bought a new pressure switch with off/auto on knob. That way I could leave the compressor plugged into the wall and still have a positive means to disconnect the compressor. I do this because I go weeks at a time not using the compressor and the tank has a slow leak. This keeps it from cycling other than when I am using it.

What is the HP rating of the compressor?
 

matt_i

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Mar 14, 2008
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SE Michigan
Its sometimes helpful to think of the "control side" of the circuit, meaning those devices which signal the coil by turning it on and off, and then the "power side" of the circuit meaning the heavy amperage conductors which make the motor spin.

Making a wiring diagram always makes a circuit go together easier. If I can understand it on paper, then I can wire it from there.

 

md21722

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3HP does not really need a mag starter. You can use the pressure switch as a 2 pole switch to start and stop the motor. 3HP single phase motor should be wired for 17A X 125% = 21.25A = #10 NM-b (Romex) or #12 THHN (in conduit).

In more basic terms the magnetic starter acts as a relay to take load off the pressure switch.

The mag starter is more technically a specific purpose contacter designed to take the load of starting a motor. When used, the pressure switch is just an in-series switch that powers the coil. When the coil is energized, the contractor closes and the motor starts.

Magnetic starters also offer thermal protection with a heater element that will trip off the motor if they draw too much current. This is why they usually always have a Reset button. In many cases smaller motors <5HP have built in thermal protection (red reset button on the motor). Some 5HP motors have them as well. The magnetic starter heater element must be sized to the motor.

Where it gets confusing is the "extra" wires in the magnetic starter and what voltage the coil runs at. On my Square D magnetic starters, the coil runs at 230V same as the motor. Off the line in, one hot leg is pre-wired through the heater element switch to the coil. The other hot leg you need to wire in yourself entirely through the pressure switch.

It's easiest to remember that switches always go in series with the load. In the case of the magnetic starter and pressure and thermal switches, the switches switch the coil, not the motor. So a 2 pole, 4 wire pressure switch, generally only has one pole, 2 wires.

Keep in mind that magnetic starters are not bullet proof. There are cases where even name brand units from Siemens, etc. will fail to release the contactor and the compressor will run and run and run even though the pressure switch tests OK. In that case, you need to replace the contactor or the entire starter, whichever is more cost effective.

To the OP, Badasssapper67, when I first wired one up I was scratching my hair too. There's definitely a slight learning curve to this.
 
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Todd.Brock

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My champions were bought as a pair. One single phase and one 3 phase. I sold the 3 phase but kept single. It had a 3 HP baldor 1725 rpm non thermally protected motor. It had a mag starter on it. So I go a new box for it, cleaned up the wiring - wired in a twist lock with 10-2. I used a recepticle because I also plug in my 240 v Dayton G73 heater during winter if I need it
 

wyliesdiesels

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My champions were bought as a pair. One single phase and one 3 phase. I sold the 3 phase but kept single. It had a 3 HP baldor 1725 rpm non thermally protected motor. It had a mag starter on it. So I go a new box for it, cleaned up the wiring - wired in a twist lock with 10-2. I used a recepticle because I also plug in my 240 v Dayton G73 heater during winter if I need it

If by 10-2 u mean NM-b wire aka Romex then that isnt code permissable.... Shouldve used 10-3 cordage...
 

md21722

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If by 10-2 u mean NM-b wire aka Romex then that isnt code permissable.... Shouldve used 10-3 cordage...

For building knowledge, what is the issue? Both are 240V loads and don't need a neutral. Are you thinking he put Nm-b/Romex in a twist lock male end to the mag starter? In that case I would agree, that ain't right.
 
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Todd.Brock

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Sorry that wasn't clear- 10-2 Romex down the wall to the 30a twist lock receptacle. Then 10-3 SOOW... Maybe SJOOW. I forget which from compressor to the receptacle
 

md21722

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The code issue with the twist lock comes from the fact that NEMA plugs aren't rated for usually more than 2 HP. Yes, the amperage is there, but they fail the HP specification. The reasoning I've seen for the difference is the induction (motor) load and resulting arcing that can occur if a plug is used as a disconnect...
 

Norcal

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Mar 16, 2008
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For mag starters (Magnetic Starters), Allen Bradley is the one to use if you want American

Furnas (now Siemens) ESP100, SQ D , are good choices, my personal favorite is the now obsolete (since 1994 or so) Cutler-Hammer Citation® line, but I probably have a hundred of them. No starter that uses a definite purpose contactor is worth a ****,which seems to be supplied on factory wired air compressors 'cause they are cheap, also Chicom built starters are even worse.


To the OP, when using a pressure switch to control a mag starter, only 2-wires are required from the pressure switch to the starter, referred to as 2-wire control.
 

manwithtools

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To the OP, when using a pressure switch to control a mag starter, only 2-wires are required from the pressure switch to the starter, referred to as 2-wire control.

Agreed, matt_i has drawn the circuit the way it should be wired. OP, can you post a sketch of the way you have your's wired. Your explanation is hard to follow, but only two wires should be on your pressure switch's normally closed contacts - no other wires required to the pressure switch. Your post is going to confuse other folks.
 

wyliesdiesels

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The code issue with the twist lock comes from the fact that NEMA plugs aren't rated for usually more than 2 HP. Yes, the amperage is there, but they fail the HP specification. The reasoning I've seen for the difference is the induction (motor) load and resulting arcing that can occur if a plug is used as a disconnect...

Standard NEMA plugs and receptacles are actually rated to about 3HP. But the rest of what u said is correct.

Often times people dont realize that for motor circuits everything is sized based on HP NOT amperage, except for the heaters/solid state overloads... Ie D/Cs, starters, wire, and outlets and plugs...
 

DSMR

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To be honest, I would have kept the 3 phase motor and powered it with a VFD. Probably would have been cheaper on parts and you could tweak accel, decel Ect...
 

Norcal

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To be honest, I would have kept the 3 phase motor and powered it with a VFD. Probably would have been cheaper on parts and you could tweak accel, decel Ect...

After 3 HP you go to 3 phase input drives that can have phase loss protection disabled & have to be derated 50%, going to get real expensive doing it that way.
 

DSMR

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After 3 HP you go to 3 phase input drives that can have phase loss protection disabled & have to be derated 50%, going to get real expensive doing it that way.

Not entirely true. It depends on the VFD manufacturer. Yaskawa is good about giving a guide on which VFD to get based on many factors.

That being said, I just searched eBay for 10hp vfd's and found a plethora in the $3-400 range (some being name brand).

You would still want to add a DC link choke but I do believe you could retrofit a VFD for less money (or break even) with huge benefits. Across the line motor starting was cool in 1950 but is simply violent compared to new methods. Single phase motors have more moving parts so they are not as reliable or as rebuildable as it's proper 3 phase counter part. 3 phase motors are really cheap now of days as well.
 
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