main breaker in detached garage

[Chris Crow]

Hi,
We bought a burned down house with a detached 3 car garage. We want to restore electrical service to the garage now and then have a shell for the new house erected. We would then use the garage as a workshop to complete the interior room by room, doing as much of the work as we can ourselves. I think this means I would have a 200amp main breaker in the garage and later a 200amp sub-breaker in the house. Is this correct? Thanks for any help you can give.

 

[Falcon67]

I think - JMO - that you'd be better off hanging a meter base off the garage, with two breakers in the meter base. One 100A to feed a sub panel in the garage, the other a 200A for the future house panel.

 

[sberry]

This isn't a bad way to do it. What type of appliances will be in the house and how big will it be? List your location on this page, it helps a lot with load demand calculations. There are several ways to do this.

 

[sberry]

I am tempted to add an extra panel in the chain here, it is some extra expense but can mount a 200 with 8 space and main lug feed thu on the outside of the garage, feed 100 in to it and use the feed thru to the house and any spaces from outside to feed a well or any other outbuildings.

 

[Chris Crow]

We are located in south Jersey more or less on a line with Baltimore. There was previously power running from the former house to the garage through an underground metal pipe. I would utilize this pipe to restore power to the house. We would be running a line to another outbuilding about 50 yards away in the future. We also have two wells, an agricultural well near the outbuilding and a standard well near the house. I would prefer not to have a panel on the exterior as the property is remote and subject to trespassing.

 

[Chris Crow]

The house will be around 2,400 sq' and be pretty standard except we may go with a geothermal system for heating and cooling (and water heater assistance). We will also be adding solar panels but don't know yet ho much that would reduce consumption.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Where is the current service at? The garage?

What is the sq ft on the house?

All electric?

Should do a load calc first that way if u need a larger service than u anticipate u can put it in.

If u do it the other way around, u will have wasted money and time.

 

[Chris Crow]

There's no current service to the garage. But it is wired.

House will be around 2,400 sq'.

Mostly electric with propane stove top. But we'll be putting in a geothermal system and solar panels. We should be good with 200amp service.

You are right about getting it right the first time. The cost difference isn't that much to get it right.

Thanks!

 

[sberry]

I would prefer not to have a panel on the exterior as the property is remote and subject to trespassing.

This isn't as big a deal as one may think, I have several in remote locations and never had one messed with. This is a poster case for an outside disconnect, panel with spaces, nothing easier than to feed it from outside as needed.

 

[justsam]

We are located in south Jersey more or less on a line with Baltimore. There was previously power running from the former house to the garage through an underground metal pipe. I would utilize this pipe to restore power to the house.

Not knowing what the capacity originally supplied to the garage was, you may want to examine that "metal pipe", aka conduit. The conduit may have been sized to accommodate much smaller wire than what you are now proposing by providing the opposite feed of 200 Amps from garage to new home.

 

[Chris Crow]

Thanks for your help sberry and justsam. I'll look into these things.

 

[sberry]

SD makes a panel just for this https://www.lowes.com/pd/Square-D-16-Circuit-8-Space-200-Amp-Main-Breaker-Load-Center/50311173 They make it in a meter main too.

 

[theoldwizard1]

I think - JMO - that you'd be better off hanging a meter base off the garage, with two breakers in the meter base. One 100A to feed a sub panel in the garage, the other a 200A for the future house panel.

This will cost you a bit more, but this is the simplest solution.

 

[sberry]

Yes but no reason to limit it to 4 spaces when 8 and main lug feed thru are the same cost. You can take off other feeds from outside also.

 

[UltimatE]

I'll add a +1 to the external garage panel as it adds a lot of flexibility to the setup. Might cost a little more up front, but down the road it'll be worth it.

 

[79firebird]

I say go 200 at the shop and run 100 amp or more to the house. My place is 125 amp and im at 1500sq. All electric base board, hottub on a 50 amp, 2 mini splits, home workshop etc and never poped the main yet.

 

[yeldogt]

I'm doing the same after a fire. The previous 200 amp service was to the house with 100amp underground going to my 1700sf two building studio. We are now taking the main service to the studio with secondary service to the house. The well pump and maybe one of the two house heat pumps will be coming from the studio. In my case the existing recessed studio panel is 100amp

IMO - The best suggestion was to install a combination meter panel/ distribution panel with main and sub panel load breakers on the exterior - this would give me the ability to simply run back down underground to the house and well pump -- and have an easy connection for a future generator or a second panel for the second building of the studio.

Initially, did not like the idea of the panel being outside ... my electrician walked over to my meter and pulled it out of the case in about 10 seconds -- cutting off the power.

The panels have a loop for a lock.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I'm doing the same after a fire. The previous 200 amp service was to the house with 100amp underground going to my 1700sf two building studio. We are now taking the main service to the studio with secondary service to the house. The well pump and maybe one of the two house heat pumps will be coming from the studio. In my case the existing recessed studio panel is 100amp

IMO - The best suggestion was to install a combination meter panel/ distribution panel with main and sub panel load breakers on the exterior - this would give me the ability to simply run back down underground to the house and well pump -- and have an easy connection for a future generator or a second panel for the second building of the studio.

Initially, did not like the idea of the panel being outside ... my electrician walked over to my meter and pulled it out of the case in about 10 seconds -- cutting off the power.

The panels have a loop for a lock.

U cant have more than one feed to a structure so feeding the heat pump as u propose in red is not up to code.

 

[mikegt4]

Check with your AHJ. My AHJ rejected requests for powering garage with no house on property, powering house through garage, 2nd meter for garage (power from existing pole on opposite side of property). Final result was "temporary" power set up like used by contractors when they build the house.

 

[terabitdan]

U cant have more than one feed to a structure so feeding the heat pump as u propose in red is not up to code.

What about secondary meters for interruptible A/C or heat pumps? Why isn't that considered multiple feeds to a building?

Ive been wondering if this is legal: Off the secondary meter can I place a two circuit box, one to the A/C on the house the second underground to a mini split outdoor unit near the detached garage?

Dan

 

[wyliesdiesels]

What about secondary meters for interruptible A/C or heat pumps? Why isn't that considered multiple feeds to a building?

Ive been wondering if this is legal: Off the secondary meter can I place a two circuit box, one to the A/C on the house the second underground to a mini split outdoor unit near the detached garage?

Dan

a second meter on the same structure as the first wouldnt be consider a separate feed since the source comes from the same location.

now say u have a house and a detached shop. Each have their own meter and the house gets a branch feeder from the shop. This would be a separate feed and not allowed.

For your garage example would the garage have 2 feeds? one for AC and another for branch circuits? If so thats not allowed.

 

[Bert_]

Not trying to stir the pot, well maybe. I am aware of the rules regarding multiple circuits to detached structures.

I have on a couple occasions ran two feeders to a detached garage. One for normal power (lights, recepts. ect.) which was fed from the house panel with the standard rate. And I ran a second feeder for an electric heater in the garage from the electric heat panel in the house which has it's own meter with a reduced rate. The panels in the garage were next to each other.

I'm sure I already know the answer but I am curious what others think. Presented with the situation I would most likely do it again, no other way to get the cheaper rate for both the house and garage heat. The utility only allows one meter for the heat/cool rate.

 

[terabitdan]

a second meter on the same structure as the first wouldnt be consider a separate feed since the source comes from the same location.

now say u have a house and a detached shop. Each have their own meter and the house gets a branch feeder from the shop. This would be a separate feed and not allowed.

For your garage example would the garage have 2 feeds? one for AC and another for branch circuits? If so thats not allowed.

In my example, the electrical feed to the compressor would never actually enter the garage. Placing the compressor near the garage, probably with the shutoff on the outside wall, is to meet code for placing in the rear yard and avoid 75' or so of line set.

Would the answer be any different if it's a mini split that serves both the garage and house?


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[wyliesdiesels]

In my example, the electrical feed to the compressor would never actually enter the garage. Placing the compressor near the garage, probably with the shutoff on the outside wall, is to meet code for placing in the rear yard and avoid 75' or so of line set.

Would the answer be any different if it's a mini split that serves both the garage and house?


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Youre kinda in a gray area.

Since it wont be an actual feed to the garage u may be fine. I will have to ponder this scenario a little more.

as far as one mini split to feed both buildings, how far apart are the buildings? How would u run the line sets?

 

[terabitdan]

The buildings are 10' apart and I would bury the line set to the house in conduit.


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