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Main Panel Manufacturer Preference and Recommendations

Q

Qualitytools

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I am about to install a 400 Amp panel for an update to my 1935 built home in Southern California.

I have some bids for Siemens and Eaton panels, Is there a preference? And if so why?

I don’t want to have an issue with breakers down the road not being available. Any and all suggestions and recommendations greatly appreciated.

Thanks
 
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N

Norcal

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Any panel other then Eaton BR, which I call "Zinsco II", or GE/ABB, & will be fine, Eaton CH, & SQ D QO, are the premium choices. Leviton panels are a newcomer compared to all others, but I always wonder if they will go away like SQ D Trilliant.
 
U

u2slow

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QO is my preference. In the 'panelboard' format, they accept push-on and bolt-on breakers just the same.

Depending on your arrangement, want to decide whether you want the disco in the meter base, main-disco panel, or a separate disco altogether. Can lend itself to using cheaper 200A load centers.
 
S

sparky 1971

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Of the choices, even though I don't use them, you can't go wrong with a Siemens panel as long as it has a copper bus.

I can almost promise that the Eaton will be a BR which is the cheap line. It will probably perform flawlessly for many years, but I've seen way to many burned aluminum bus stab connections to be willing to risk it.

Someone will be along soon enough to add that a copper bus can burn up as well, but it's nowhere near as likely. Aluminum bus panels probably outnumber copper by 10:1, but burned aluminum stabs outnumber copper by at least 25:1 if not more. In fact, in 30+ years, I don't recall ever having burned copper, but have heard of it happening
 
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T

theoldwizard1

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u2slow said:
QO is my preference. In the 'panelboard' format, ...
Click to expand...
Segue : About 15 years ago, I was doing a kitchen remodel on my daughter's early 50's house. We need more circuit, so I was happy to see someone had already upgraded (1980s?) the fuse box to a Square D QO. Great ! Run the wire for the new circuits, slap in a couple of tandems and I'm done ! NO !!

Sometime between that panel upgrade and early 2000s, Square D changed the design of their tandems ! The (now current) tandems would not fit that panel ! Luckily, I found the part number for the old tandems as was able to acquire 4 NOS units !
 
U

u2slow

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theoldwizard1 said:
Segue : About 15 years ago, I was doing a kitchen remodel on my daughter's early 50's house. We need more circuit, so I was happy to see someone had already upgraded (1980s?) the fuse box to a Square D QO. Great ! Run the wire for the new circuits, slap in a couple of tandems and I'm done ! NO !!

Sometime between that panel upgrade and early 2000s, Square D changed the design of their tandems ! The (now current) tandems would not fit that panel ! Luckily, I found the part number for the old tandems as was able to acquire 4 NOS units !
Click to expand...
I reckon thats a USA peculiarity... CTL something? I hope that's gone by now.

Never ran into that problem on this side of the border.
 
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sparky 1971

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theoldwizard1 said:
Segue : About 15 years ago, I was doing a kitchen remodel on my daughter's early 50's house. We need more circuit, so I was happy to see someone had already upgraded (1980s?) the fuse box to a Square D QO. Great ! Run the wire for the new circuits, slap in a couple of tandems and I'm done ! NO !!

Sometime between that panel upgrade and early 2000s, Square D changed the design of their tandems ! The (now current) tandems would not fit that panel ! Luckily, I found the part number for the old tandems as was able to acquire 4 NOS units !
Click to expand...
You probably got a CTL breaker because those cost less. They only fit certain panels in certain places.

www.menards.com

Square D™ QO™ 15-Amp and 20-Amp 1-Pole Tandem Circuit Breaker

Square D QO 15- and 20-Amp Two-Pole Tandem Circuit Breaker is intended for overload and short circuit protection of your electrical system. This breaker offers two circuits in the space of one and is compatible with QO load centers, CSED devices, and NQO panel boards. The ANSI-certified and...
www.menards.com www.menards.com

The non-CTL will fit, but you're gonna pay for it and it may not be kosher to use it. If I were to be asked about using one or 500 over the years I'd probably plead the fifth.

www.menards.com

Square D™ QO™ 20-Amp 2-Pole Tandem Circuit Breaker Replacement

Square D QO 15/20-Amp Tandem Single-Pole Circuit Breaker features two circuits in the space of one. The breaker has two tandem poles, one rated for up to 15-Amps and the other rated for up to 20-Amps. The unit uses a thermal-magnetic tripping mechanism with a Visi-Trip® indicator that helps you...
www.menards.com www.menards.com

They "only" run about $65 at the supply house with Square D special pricing.
 
M

mm08822

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sparky 1971 said:
You probably got a CTL breaker because those cost less. They only fit certain panels in certain places.

www.menards.com

Square D™ QO™ 15-Amp and 20-Amp 1-Pole Tandem Circuit Breaker

Square D QO 15- and 20-Amp Two-Pole Tandem Circuit Breaker is intended for overload and short circuit protection of your electrical system. This breaker offers two circuits in the space of one and is compatible with QO load centers, CSED devices, and NQO panel boards. The ANSI-certified and...
www.menards.com www.menards.com

The non-CTL will fit, but you're gonna pay for it and it may not be kosher to use it. If I were to be asked about using one or 500 over the years I'd probably plead the fifth.

www.menards.com

Square D™ QO™ 20-Amp 2-Pole Tandem Circuit Breaker Replacement

Square D QO 15/20-Amp Tandem Single-Pole Circuit Breaker features two circuits in the space of one. The breaker has two tandem poles, one rated for up to 15-Amps and the other rated for up to 20-Amps. The unit uses a thermal-magnetic tripping mechanism with a Visi-Trip® indicator that helps you...
www.menards.com www.menards.com

They "only" run about $65 at the supply house with Square D special pricing.
Click to expand...
Other than the notch in the stab physically, the real difference is WHAT???? I've never seen that explained. Sure the panel was tested/listed in that configuration shown on the panel label, but what really is the issue we are being protected from?? One can easily put two 125 CB's across from each other and easily violate the overall stab rating (if stated).
 
T

theoldwizard1

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sparky 1971 said:
You probably got a CTL breaker because those cost less.
Click to expand...
Nope !

I actually called Square D, gave them the model number of the panel. The person there said they no longer sell tandems for that panel, but he did give me the old part number !

A little googling, and I found NOS ! (FYI - tandem 15A breakers and only the bottom 4 slots accepted tandems)
 
M

micromind

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Fernley, Nevada, about 30 miles east of Reno.
My first choice is Square D QO. I like the panel boards more than the load centers because, as noted above, they will accept either bolt-on or stab-in breakers.

There's a lot of Square D Homeline around here, mainly all-in-ones mounted outside. They seem to be good, never seen a problem yet.

I would avoid GE/ABB. I don't know about resi but after ABB bought out GE, the industrial stuff changed quite a bit. Seems presently to be an unstable company.

Note.....The Square D tandem breakers come in 2 types; QOT and QO. The QOTs have a hook sort of thing in the back and will only fit panels designed for them. The QO (QO1515, 2020, etc) have a sort of bulge in the back and will only fit panels designed for them. The QO models can be modified to fit any panel.......you'll need an angle grinder or a coarse file.

Of course, I've certainly never modified any of these breakers.........lol.
 
S

sparky 1971

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micromind said:
My first choice is Square D QO. I like the panel boards more than the load centers because, as noted above, they will accept either bolt-on or stab-in breakers.

There's a lot of Square D Homeline around here, mainly all-in-ones mounted outside. They seem to be good, never seen a problem yet.

I would avoid GE/ABB. I don't know about resi but after ABB bought out GE, the industrial stuff changed quite a bit. Seems presently to be an unstable company.

Note.....The Square D tandem breakers come in 2 types; QOT and QO. The QOTs have a hook sort of thing in the back and will only fit panels designed for them. The QO (QO1515, 2020, etc) have a sort of bulge in the back and will only fit panels designed for them. The QO models can be modified to fit any panel.......you'll need an angle grinder or a coarse file.

Of course, I've certainly never modified any of these breakers.........lol.
Click to expand...
Interesting. I've never had a panel that a regular QO tandem wouldn't fit in right out of the box. I've held QOT's in my hand at the box store, but decided I didn't want to try to figure out how to make that hook thing work so I've never actually tried to use one.

Siemens, on the other hand, has a factory defect on the CTL versions. There's an extra piece of plastic on the stab connection. Nothing that small screwdriver won't break off, allowing them to fit anywhere in any panel. Or so I've heard.
 
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