Main Water Valve Question

[magic_garage]

Hi All:

I need to get our main water shut off valve replaced. It currently is a 3/4" gate or globe (hard to see) valve. The plan is to change it out completely to a ball valve. My main question is what material and brand valve should I get? My research has led me to either a Milwaukee or Jamesbury valve. I see stainless and brass but which would be better for me? I'm open to other valve brand suggestions but please provide some extra info/data on the "why".

Thanks in advance.

 

[CNGsaves]

Presume you have copper piping ??? Please don't tell us galvanized steel.

Be sure to get FULL FLOW ball valve.

Post up PIC's of what you've got for GJ guru's to help you out.

 

[magic_garage]

Sorry, its copper.

Pic of existing valve as it is now. The box will get change out.

Presume you have copper piping ??? Please don't tell us galvanized steel.

Be sure to get FULL FLOW ball valve.

Post up PIC's of what you've got for GJ guru's to help you out.

 

[Cyberbear]

I do not have any idea about the amount of salt in your soil where you are at in Hawaii, but a quality US made stainless ball valve should be a good choice.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Along the lines of "If it ain't broke ..."

So why are you replacing it ?

 

[matt_i]

I think you are going to have to call the local utility to get the main turned off from the street (assuming "city water") so you can replace. Good idea to have it all excavated ahead of time. Backup would be hiring a pipefitter with the right equipment to temporarily freeze the line on the city side.

I like Nibco valves, I've never had one go bad on me. You want a "full port" valve which does not restrict flow.

I also don't like to sweat solder ball valves as I think the probability of screwing up the seat is very high. I'd rather sweat male pipe thread adapters on, tighten the valve, and install a union to make it all up.

I would sweat with Sta Brite #8 solder (approved for potable water use, stronger than normal "lead free" big box solder, and the Sta-Clean flux. Its more expensive but worth it.

I think you're wise to open up the size of the irrigation box that the valve fits in, get the soil lower so its not touching the valve or the union, and fill the bottom with a bag of pea gravel.

That's more or less what I would do were it my problem to solve.

 

[magic_garage]

Thanks for the replies.

I'm replacing it because it doesn't work. Also, my contractor is redoing the concrete on the corner section of the lot so the valve will be exposed. So I'd like to get a real quality valve and hopefully not have to worry about it in my lifetime.

I don't think we have much salt in the soil but hawaii in general is pretty humid and the valley I live in is very rainy so it's extra damp.

 

[BillK]

Majic,
I cant help with your choice of valves, but in this area the valve in the ground at the street belongs to the county ( or city ) and is their responsibility. Are you sure this is something you are supposed to work on ? Just making sure ?

 

[Norcal]

I am fond of Apollo ball valves, only failures have had is when not protected from freezing. The only way to change it out is to get the water supply shut off ahead of the bad valve.

 

[nadogail]

Ask your water company for a recommendation.

 

[magic_garage]

The valve is clearly on our property so its ours and it will get changed. Maybe the water company is supposed to shut their valve off so I can service my main valve but I never heard of people calling them for that so we'll do shut it ourselves.

Back to my questions, which material, brass, bronze or stainless?

There seems to be no clear front runner in terms of brand so I'm thinking if I get anyone of the mentioned, I should be safe.

Thanks

 

[rburke65]

I also am of the belief that it's the water companies valve....might want to check.

 

[BillK]

Maybe the water company is supposed to shut their valve off so I can service my main valve but I never heard of people calling them for that so we'll do shut it ourselves.

In my area it is illegal to mess with the county's shut off unless you are a licensed plumber. The main shut off for my house is actually in the house where the water meter is. The one in the ground like yours belongs to the county. It does not matter where it is, ours is in my front yard about 5 ft from the street. Probably still in the county right of way though.

I really think you should call before you fool with it. Might even save yourself some bucks if it is their responsibility.

 

[SJR033]

Let me start with, I work for an underground piping distributor. Well sell to municipalities and contractors.

The typical water service consists of...

1) corp stop- this is used to connect to the main. It is usually buried under the road and never touched again.
2) curb stop- this is the citie's shut off for the service. It is located in the right-of-way. Usually between the curb and sidewalk.
3) Piping to the house with usually a shut off at the house.

The municipality owns and is responsible for the service up to at least the curb stop. Sometimes they will take responsibility up to the meter.

So what I am getting at is...
1) I am not sure that the OP's broken valve is not a curb stop vs his shut off.
2) A home owner is not to operate a curb stop. It is not his.
3) If the OP's broken valve is truly his main shut off. He will need the curb stop shut off so that his valve can be replaced.

TLDR: Call the city.

 

[nadogail]

Ask your water company for a recommendation.

At the risk of being obnoxious, I will repeat myself, Call the Water Company.

Certainly they have encountered this problem sometime before.

 

[aptdweller]

I used to work for a water utility. Any brass full port ball valve will be fine for your use. I would recommend one made in North America, if you can find one (I can't anymore). Also, steer clear of the sharkbite connections.

What sort of curb stop do you have that you can shut it yourself? Near me, they are 8 feet underground.

 

[SJR033]

I used to work for a water utility. Any brass full port ball valve will be fine for your use. I would recommend one made in North America, if you can find one (I can't anymore). Also, steer clear of the sharkbite connections.

What sort of curb stop do you have that you can shut it yourself? Near me, they are 8 feet underground.

Down south water services are only a few feet deep. It doesn't take much to get under the frost line. Besides anyone can buy a curb wrench.

 

[wayne55]

What Nadogail said!

 

[CNGsaves]

OP is in Hawaii . . . . . . there is NO FROST LINE !!!

Likely will need to work with local authorities anyway to get water shutoff. They may be able to sell you quality shutoff to replace the bad one at affordable price.

 

[redmondjp]

OP is in Hawaii . . . . . . there is NO FROST LINE !!!

Sorry, but not true! As usual, the answer is IT DEPENDS. The highest elevation on the Big Island is 13,796 feet above sea level. I'll grant you that not many people live up that high, but there is most definitely a frost line above a certain elevation on that island.

 

[Brad Beam]

I also am of the belief that it's the water companies valve....might want to check.

^^^^
This
Around here that valve would be the utilities responsibility

 

[BillK]

Any update ?

 

[magic_garage]

Hi:

First off, I appreciate all the replies.

The pic of my valve is definitely ours and it is on our property so lets kill that debate.

The valve before my main shut off I believe is a "curb-stop", as it's on the sidewalk about 12" down in a valve box with a cast iron cover . And if I"m not mistaken, the meter is on this valve and you can use the curb wrench to shut it off. I used a crescent to shut it off in the past….shhhh.

Let me start with, I work for an underground piping distributor. Well sell to municipalities and contractors.

The typical water service consists of...

1) corp stop- this is used to connect to the main. It is usually buried under the road and never touched again.
2) curb stop- this is the citie's shut off for the service. It is located in the right-of-way. Usually between the curb and sidewalk.
3) Piping to the house with usually a shut off at the house.

The municipality owns and is responsible for the service up to at least the curb stop. Sometimes they will take responsibility up to the meter.

So what I am getting at is...
1) I am not sure that the OP's broken valve is not a curb stop vs his shut off.
2) A home owner is not to operate a curb stop. It is not his.
3) If the OP's broken valve is truly his main shut off. He will need the curb stop shut off so that his valve can be replaced.

TLDR: Call the city.

 

[magic_garage]

Haha, someone actually trying to debate whether or not there's a frost line in Hawaii. Not doubting you but c'mon, the only people that live up there are the scientist. I'm a regular home owner (in Honolulu) and I can barely take it when our temperature goes down into the low 60's here.

Sorry, but not true! As usual, the answer is IT DEPENDS. The highest elevation on the Big Island is 13,796 feet above sea level. I'll grant you that not many people live up that high, but there is most definitely a frost line above a certain elevation on that island.

 

[magic_garage]

Ok gang, here's the deal. I decided to hire a plumber to actually relocate the valve so the valve will be above ground and I won't be as critical on the brand and material type since it will be easier to change out myself in the future if needed.

Still would of been nice if you guys focused more on my original question (best brand and material).

Thanks, still a great forum.

 

[SJR033]

Hi:

First off, I appreciate all the replies.

The pic of my valve is definitely ours and it is on our property so lets kill that debate.

The valve before my main shut off I believe is a "curb-stop", as it's on the sidewalk about 12" down in a valve box with a cast iron cover . And if I"m not mistaken, the meter is on this valve and you can use the curb wrench to shut it off. I used a crescent to shut it off in the past….shhhh.

You are probably correct. I have never seen a city take responsibility past the meter. So the valve in question is yours. Now to answer your question, there are 3 main suppliers of water service brass in the US. All three make a good product. Ay McDonald, Mueller, Ford. All three make curb stops. That is basically what your broken valve is. Typically buried valves are either compression or flare. Sweat fittings are a no-no. You should be able to pick up a curb stop at your local underground supply house. A 1" compression curb stop should cost you about $100.

 

[doctordirt]

I agree with SJR. We use mueller compression curb stops. Ford on occasion. And there is nothing wrong with using crescent to operate the valve. Ours are 5-7 ft deep and have to use a curb key.