Maintaining an Older(ish) Car

[z28snksknr]

As my name and avatar implies, I own a '94 Z-28. I've had it since high school and the car itself has over 264,000 miles on it (replaced engine and 2 ******'s so far in it's life). A bunch of stuff is wrong with it, and it's really starting to show it's age (17 years old ):

- The A/C hasn't worked in 6 years due to an electrical gremlin I've never tracked down. These cars love to fog the windshields since they are almost horizontal so driving it on a humid / rainy day is a no-go usually.
- The driver seat has electrical tape coving a hole in the upholstry so the foam doesn't crumble all over the place.
- There's a few exhaust holes that need to be welded
- Front brakes are toast
- Rear shocks are shot
- The tint job on the rear window is starting to bubble after being on there for 11 years
- It's got various scratches and dents - more from sitting in the garage / driveway and getting bumped into, stuff falling on it, etc.
- Just this morning, I noticed the dash pad is now cracked for some reason
- There is this annoying alternator feedback into the stereo and large bumps make a popping sound in the speakers
- The passenger window motor is shot (takes almost as minute to go up/down)
- The headliner is falling down
- Tires have flat spots from the car sitting so much, one has had a slow leak since 2004

(to name a few)

Thing is, I love the car and want it to be perfect. The last time it was "nice" was when I took my avatar pic 2 years ago when I drove it to my 10 year high school reunion. Now it just puts me in a bad mood when I drive it. Now I dwell on not having the time, money, or energy to address it's needs. I just bought a bunch of parts for it, but I feel like I'm falling further behind everytime I drive it and spot something new. It hasn't been "daily driver quality" for 3 years now.

So how do you guys do it? How do you guys who have had car for a long time keep up on the maintenance? Anyone else feel this way about one of their "toys"? Any suggestions besides changing my tampon and getting to work on the heap?

 

[Buford T. Justice]

Yes, I have been in your situation. Without knowing your financial situation I will tell you my short experience. I used to have a '78 Pontiac Grand Prim with the 301 v8. The car wasn't all that special other then the sentiment I had for it. The body was beautiful but that's as far as it really went. I experienced every thing else with it that you listed and then some more like you said. I tried to keep it alive but it was one thing after another until frustration won. So having been through what sounds similar I would sell it, cut your sentiments to it and get something that makes you happy and maybe has a few less or severe issues. Sure, I know any car can develop stuff anytime but at least you won't feel overwhelmed.

Then, and this is something I also learned from my deal; if you do get something else, get in the habit of checking and fixing anything wrong once a week. That way you won't feel like you are fighting the frustrating losing battle your in now. That my 2 cents, others may disagree but it worked for me.

 

[MoToys]

Sometimes I feel the same about my jeep which is a daily driver and weekend wheeler.
I put time and money into it and the to do list always seems to grow. The deep down love for it is what keeps me going though. It is plenty frustrating at times but the overall enjoyment i get from it is worth it.
If you don't enjoy wrenching on it and driving it then it may not be worth it.

 

[smschriefer]

I feel your pain. I have a 52 Chevy that need tons of things and have had my fair share of cars that just kept having issues. In my case I finally decided to quit the bleeding on most and let them go - only to regret those decisions to this day. My advise is you complete it one system at a time. Sure, knock out the easy things for a sense of accomplishment and to make it drivable, but then focus on areas for improvement. My example would be your front brakes. Are the rotors in need of replacement as well as pads? Change the hoses while you are at it and flush the brake lines. There is nothing worse than going through the effort of changing a good portion of a system and then having another item fail. The good part is when you are done - the braking system is done and you have peace of mind. Same with suspension - replace shocks-struts and then you notice worn bushing and then the tie rods and then ball joints... Many will say it is crazy and overkill, but I can't stand having to do something to a system that I just repaired because my repair exposed and/or create a flaw I hadn't known about before. It destroys my enjoyment in what I do and leads me personally to just get pissed and sell the car.

I have no idea if this helps, but it does remind me that I need to order the remaining pieces for my brake system to reignite my passion for my 52.

 

[ludakris04]

I would agree with the part about fixing an issue as soon as it arises. I dont have anything that old (running) but I know that with my 03' I have put off a few things and it is already starting to feel overwhelming.
On a side note, I worked at a pontiac dealer in 94' and I remember we had an electrical issue with a firebird. I cant remember if it was for the A/C or not. Anyway, it turned out that a screw in the firewall had been installed from the factory and it went right through the center of the wiring harness....

 

[38Chevy454]

Well, my old daily drivers are more like 30's and 40's cars although with modern-ish drivetrains in them. Your car is just showing the age and miles, either you need to spend some time and money on it and fix the things, or sell it and get something less used up. Cars are like any other mechanical and electrical device, things wear out and need attention. Even with good preventative maintenance. My much older cars are relatively simple and have a lot less to go wrong. BUt I still have to do work to keep them up.

 

[Falcon67]

His "old" car is 17, mine is 44. Pipsqueak! I've been though the car - and I mean apart in small pieces - at least 4 times. Minor stuff like engine and trans rebuilds - I lost count. Because I like to do it and thats all. They don't take care of themselves and when you beat on one like I do, you have to stay on top of things.

 

[uberhahn]

Time to do some soul searching about this one... I have nothing to add as far as what to do. I was in a similar situation with a Daily Driver that I really enjoyed (4Runner). By the end, it became too much of a time liability, and parted with it. The money really isn't the issue at this point. You know you'll never recover the money you've put in. It's now about the time. Keep in mind, you can buy new parts, a new car, etc. You can never recover your time.

 

[brownbagg]

its all about money, there is no excuse to having bad brakes and bad shocks. those can be replace on a saturday afternoon from local parts house. Now the dent ding dash are different story. The a/c i can understand. I had one that was bad for nine years and once I started looking it was a three minute repair. Just get off your **** and start working on it. think of how much the 69 camero are today, if you let yours good, it never be anyting but a junk heap

 

[eldirector]

There isn't much on your list that can't be done in an afternoon. Prioritize the list, price the parts, save up the cash, and set aside some time once a month or so. Once you get the big stuff done, keep updating the list and setting aside some time. If you keep up on repairs, it doesn't seem so bad.

My old Jeep is starting to need some major work. It seems every time I take it out (it gets wheeled pretty hard) I break something else.

I threw a list up on my whiteboard, and tackled the cheap/easy stuff first. That way it looked like I was making progress! Now I'm on to the more difficult and longer duration stuff, like rebuilding the engine and re-wiring. I just set aside a little time now and then and chip away.

 

[Zeke]

I'd go thru the suspension, steering and brakes. At that point it will drive like a new car. That should motivate you to the next step, which might be to remove the failing tint and get an upholstery kit. New carpets make all the difference, are cheap and make the car smell nice. The stereo should be easy as you do the interior but con't let it drag you down. You get a new one for not much with plenty of features that you don't presently have.

The electrical gremlin you describe for the A/C would not be the pressure switch would it? Is there any gas in the system?

 

[Barquero]

Then, and this is something I also learned from my deal; if you do get something else, get in the habit of checking and fixing anything wrong once a week.

This is excellent advice, I've done this with my daily drivers (10 and 12 years old now) and it pays off. If you let the little jobs accumulate it becomes overwhelming both financially and motivation-wise.

Also don't skimp on maintaining appearance along with mechanical, I've discovered that my wife won't ask for a new car as long as a) her car looks good and b) she doesn't have to call AAA for anything other than a lockout or flat tire.

If you are committed enough to the car to replace engines and trannys, my advice would be to put your tampons back in your purse, that will free up your hands for some tools to catch up on all the deferred maintenance on your heap

 

[sberry]

Were those not pretty much junk when they were new? Let alone nearly 20 yrs and quarter million miles on it.

 

[dirttracker18]

I would say do not sell it. I wish I could get my Z back from my high school days. If your interest is down and this is not your daily driver then park it. Drop the insurance to fire and theft and start the rebuiding process. Have fun with it and set some goals.

If the attachment is there then it is worth the rebuild.

On the other hand I will gladly take it off your hands for all the trouble it is worth and take that burden on for you

 

[Gary S]

It just might be time to let the car go. If it were a '74 instead of a '94, I'd say keep it and fix it. With a '94 you have an electronic mess that fasts costs more to keep running than the car is worth as a driver. It might be time to get a new disposable car and move ahead.
I have a '70 Camaro and an '81 pickup that have far fewer problems than any new car sitting in the dealer's lot today. My vehicles are pre-computer, and pre-EFI, so they are simple and reliable for the long haul. Old ones like mine are cheap to fix. Most repairs are $50 or less while a car like yours would be $500 or more for similar repairs.

 

[justanengineer]

I think the thing to evaluate is the time and money in it already, compare that to the cost of what you have to spend to get it fixed, and also factor in the cost of a replacement. Honestly your car isnt rare or valuable, IMHO its got the worst GM V8 ever made if its still an LT1. Ive seen clean examples of those go for <$5k with <100k on the odometer. The upside though is that there are a million of them in just about every junkyard. If it was me and I really was attached to it, take an afternoon or two and visit the UPULLITs for parts and let the work begin. All that being said, I seriously sympathize with you. My Firebird is about to move west to be with me (only been waiting 5 months for it to happen) now that the transmission shop is done with it. The bad part is that it too, needs a lot more work done before I consider it reliable transportation.

 

[slickgt1]

Let it go. If it no longer makes you happy, and there is just not enough time to enjoy working on it, and driving it, you gotta let it go to a better place. I had my last car for about 8 years. Stopped counting after $30k of investments in it. It got to the point of being a pit, and I was enjoying my other "non-modified / great from the factory" cars more. Parted it out, got about $15K back. I feel more bad about all the money and time I dumped into a car that would never be classic. It just took me a long time to realize that I could have had more fun with that money than dumping it into a car.

 

[Killer95Stang]

It's a Chevy... It's supposed to fall apart!!!

Maybe a mullet would get you back in the right mindset!

Seriously.. I'm in the same boat as you. I bought this 1995 GT one year used and have owned since I was 20. 15 years later, it looks better than it did when it rolled off the showroom. Not to mention, I haven't spend more than a few dollars for oil changes and a couple refills of Nitrous in the last five years. This car does have 171K miles on the odometer with original paint (minus hood / front bumper cover).

What I'm getting at. Spend the little bit of time now taking care of the small things, so it doesn't become overwhelming when all the little things add up. I typically wash the car every time I drive it and use a car cover in the garage. Interior has never had a grain of food eaten in it and only water is allowed.. that is.. if I let anyone drink at all... lol..

Please just don't put big chrome wheels on that car!!

 

[larry_g]

As a young man with a wife and few kids I figured out that it costs a few hundred dollars a month to own a rig. Have an old rig and you will pay a few hundred on maintenance and repair every month. Have a new car and you'll pay that out in payments. So you pays your money and makes your choice.

That said I have owned a 66 chev PU for some 30+ years. Each time a small thing failed it was fixed and most of the time with premium parts. Every few years I take a day to open up the door panels and lube the window winders. I oil the hinges doors, hood, and tailgate. I try to keep ahead of it. Its on the third motor, 2 or 3 radiators, heater core 2x, and lots of other items. It is still the rig that will go when others fail.

On your rig it owes you nothing. Its gone many a mile for you. Now what you have is sentiment. What is that worth to you? All the time, money, and effort that you have put off for so long now has come due. You have to make the decision to cut your losses and send it down the road or keep it and bring it back. Nobody here knows your family, finiancial, and work situations. Only you know that and all that weighs into you situation.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[z28snksknr]

Man, lots of varying viewpoints here, all of them valid. I think noticing the cracked dash this morning on my drive in was my tipping point. I just bought several hundred $$ in parts for it to start addressing things on that list and it goes and breaks something (expensive) that should never have broken. Not only that, but I get to stare at it every second I drive the thing because the crack runs right behind the instrument cluster.

I think I need to set aside some time this holiday weekend and just start wrenching on it. maybe I needed to be completely disgusted with it first to motivate me to do something about it.

Anyway thanks for the help. You talked me down from my ledge and back into the garage!!

 

[914forme]

Not a big deal, make a list check them off, start small, and work towards the bigger items. The dash crack, they all do it, I have a Porsche that might as well not have a dash pad. In reality I replaced it, with a cleaner one, it has one small crack. But still it is there and you know it. But you know what when I drive that car it is worth all the pan and suffering I have done.

 

[clutch93]

Glad to hear it! I think it's going to be just like it's predecessors of the 60's and early 70's. Yes they made millions of these cars, but it will eventually become sought after and worth a lot of money. I'm kind of in the same boat as you. My truck has sooo many issues right now, and i've just been putting everything off. It's pretty much to the point that I'm sick of driving it. This thread is going to get me going on it. Good luck with yours!

 

[BTC]

I have a 1994 6-speed Z28 that I bought new. I bought a Jeep Grand Cherokee late in 2000, and the Z sat in storage for about seven years. When I got it out, it needed much love. I replaced all kinds of stuff, and also installed Kooks headers and a GMMG exhaust. The car is in my brother's shop in Kentucky, and I live in Michigan, which makes it difficult to work on. The current status is that the fuel pump I replaced in 2007 or 2008 appears to have gone bad while doing nothing more than periodically starting the car and letting it run for awhile, and needs to be replaced again. The car has essentially been on jackstands since I got it out of storage. I haven't even had a chance to really drive it since 2000. I'm looking forward to that day, and plan to keep it under pretty much any circumstances. It's becoming difficult to find some OEM replacement parts.

Check out some Z28 forums on the web. They're handy resources.

 

[mpire]

I don't know much about Chevys, but my 1970 cutlass is still solid. I guess they don't make them like that anymore.

I also have several BMWs that are going on 12 years and older. All rock solid.

Maybe American cars from the 80s-90s just don't have much longevity.

All my cars are on their original transmissions and engines too.

 

[Gary S]

I don't know much about Chevys, but my 1970 cutlass is still solid. I guess they don't make them like that anymore. .

A '70 Cutlass was built simple. Simple translates into reliable because it has far fewer parts to fail. And, the parts that are in it are mostly cheap because they were used for many different models for many years.
Today's cars have too many electronic gizmos, and electronics can't be expected to be around and working 40 years later like the simple mechanical parts in your Cutlass.

 

[mpire]

My BMWs were built simple too. American made and extremely durable pieces of German art.

 

[6768rogues]

I would ditch it. It is not particularly collectible or rare and it will be a long time before it is, if ever. With the mileage and faults, it would cost plenty to bring it back to nice condition. Get rid of it and if you feel bad later, buy another one with low mileage and start over. I always feel bad about getting rid of a car until I get used to the new one.

 

[babzog]

Stick it in a barn and go see it again in 20 years,'when you're ready to turn it into an Ikea project. The dash is fixable - there's an epoxy type filler that'll deal with that.

 

[bentwrench54]

after having one car stolen, and replacing it, i parted ways with my 84 z28 last fall right before i got married. for the most part, i'm glad i did.

it seemed like anytime i had some extra $$$ to put towards the z28, my daily driver broke down, or my wife's jeep broke down. or something with the house.

i took it as a sign that it wasn't the right time to have a play car.

i just bought a 2000 s10 that likely needs an engine. hopefully this one works out because i really need a truck for some upcoming projects with the house.

 

[tcianci]

You're at the point where your car needs to be restored...It's the time where it needs more than a few hours of wrenchin every weekend. I have to disagree with the naysayers about the presence of electronics in automobiles. While I do concede that there's lots of gizmos now adays, your car is not one with an overy strong electronics component. You need to decide if there is enough attachment to warrant the restoration and then commit to the time and expense of doing it. To make this decision work from a dollars and cents perspective, you either have to love that car, or know for sure that it will be worth something when it's done otherwise it may not make much sense to restore it.
Are there any other cars that you like? You have gotten a great service life out of the one you have, maybe it could be time to pick your next favorite and get into driving it right away while picking out the modifications or accessories you may want to try.

 

[Bojans]

Just to add to tcianci's post you also need to realize if you do a full restore and you ever had to sell it you would never get the money, much less time you invested out of it. That being said if you are going to do the restore it may be worth looking for a donor vehicle that is overall in better shape than yours. If you can find a similar model year with 1/2 the miles and maybe a blown engine you would probably come out ahead in cost. Plus, when you are wrenching and find a broken piece you don't have to run to the store.

Good luck

 

[dirttracker18]

I would ditch it. It is not particularly collectible or rare and it will be a long time before it is, if ever.

I would totally disagree there.

I was told the same thing when I let my 80 Z28 go years gone by. I see them for sale now for 10 X the price I sold mine for.

I would love to have another one but there is no way I could afford it now.

Park it and fix when you can. Sounds like it does not need a resto, just some work.

 

[mpire]

Just to add to tcianci's post you also need to realize if you do a full restore and you ever had to sell it you would never get the money, much less time you invested out of it. That being said if you are going to do the restore it may be worth looking for a donor vehicle that is overall in better shape than yours. If you can find a similar model year with 1/2 the miles and maybe a blown engine you would probably come out ahead in cost. Plus, when you are wrenching and find a broken piece you don't have to run to the store.

Good luck

I think you totally miss the point of this entire forum.

Do you think anyone here gets the value out of the garage upgrades we do when the house sells?

The process is good for your soul.

 

[99LeCouch]

If it's worth your time or there are other financial considerations factored in, I'd fix it up and drive it until something breaks again. I just went through that with my daily driver, where it started the parts-shedding phase over the winter. $1000 in parts/transmission work later it's running like a top. It also gets driven a lot of miles over crappy roads, so that beats up on the car a lot. I still have to do some cosmetic stuff to it, but the mechanical issues have been addressed.

For me, it was worth the challenge of fixing my daily driver up compared to mindlessly forking over $350 every month for a new car.

The missus has a 2 year old car we bought new (well, technically we're the second owners after the first owners traded it with 350 miles on the odometer) since her then-15 year old car dropped a valve, and was a basket case from years of neglect prior to us meeting. The circumstances made buying her new car much more palatable. We've put 1 set of tires onto it. That's been it for maintenance beyond oil changes, ATF changes, and rustproofing.

 

[z28snksknr]

I drove it home after work yesterday and was planning it's ressurection all the way home. i also had a blast driving it. Now, I come in this morning and everyone is telling me to get rid of it and I'm bummed out again.

I convinced the wife to give me 1 or 2 days out of the long weekend to work on it. I think I'll do what I can for it and see how I feel about it afterwards. She's told me before she won't let me sell it, but it is a ***** of a car to work on and parts are expensive and getting hard to source new. That said, I've always wanted to make it a road course car.

To the ones that think it's not a collectable car, I think I disagree. 10 yeas ago, the 2nd gens were considered a step above junk. Now they are quite popular. 3rd gens are rising in prices now too, with clean Z28's going for $4-5k easily.

 

[mpire]

I drove it home after work yesterday and was planning it's ressurection all the way home. i also had a blast driving it. Now, I come in this morning and everyone is telling me to get rid of it and I'm bummed out again.

I never said you should sell it. It all depends on how much you love it.

The money isn't really all that important. Lets be honest, its probably not worth nearly as much to anyone else as it is to you.

 

[cashishift]

i'd start working on it..

try to tackle one or 2 things every weekend.. you should be able to get it done in a few months.

join a forum, and post up your issues that are puzzling you..

 

[transplant_wi]

Another vote for the 'Keep It' crowd - my '96 Civic has 218k on it and the occasional thing breaks (yesterday the driver side power window quit working). Keep chipping away at the repairs and think of the monthly payments, tax, insurance, etc. that you save. You will or already know your vehicle very well and will have confidence in it because of that, i.e. the devil you know

 

[cdseven95]

Another vote for the 'Keep It' crowd - my '96 Civic has 218k on it and the occasional thing breaks (yesterday the driver side power window quit working). Keep chipping away at the repairs and think of the monthly payments, tax, insurance, etc. that you save. You will or already know your vehicle very well and will have confidence in it because of that, i.e. the devil you know

A 15ish year old Civic is a little different then a 15+ year old gm as far as cost of ownership... I had a 20 year old accord that I bought a 280k and drove it to 440k and the only thing I replaced was the engine because t/b snapped due to having 250k plus the belt.. Only did brakes and fluid on it. (engine costs $150 from the salvage yard)

To the op
If you have the time to fix it up and enjoy working on it I would keep it as a second car..... if you like driving it around...

 

[shopnut]

z28snksknr,

I say KEEP IT, but I'm kind of biased here because I still have my first car, my beloved '70 Chevelle. My dad, brother and I restored it when I was 15, and I've had it since (30+ years). It survived my high school and college years (somehow) and then got a much needed break when it was parked for many years when I bought the Corvette as a graduation present to myself. There was several times when I considered selling it when Dad had buyers for it, but something inside told me to keep it. It was the right decision for me and there's no way I would part with it now.

After all these years, the Chevelle now needs EVERYTHING redone on it to be in the condition I picture in my mind. BUT, it still drives decent and puts a smile on my face when I get behind the wheel. I soon need to make a decision not whether to keep it or not, but whether to dump serious money into it to make it my future dream car or just minimal money into it and let it remain my past dream car. It brings back all those old high school memories when I jump into it, and I'm a bit afraid changing it too much may destroy that feeling.

Even though I had the Corvette nearly as long, I think I could part with it tomorrow if needed - it just doesn't bring back the memories like the Chevelle does. It's a great car, but there's plenty of cars that I wouldn't mind trading it for just to try something different. Plus it wasn't the "first" car.

Just start knocking off the items on that list. They will be behind you before you know it. If you don't need the money, and have other means of transportation while giving her a bit of TLC once and while, just keep it. Although not impossible, it may be very difficult to get it back once it is gone.