sdowney717
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I suppose using the tree trimmer trick is better?
Making a live service connection?
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I suppose using the tree trimmer trick is better?Jarcese
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I like this thread because it's a pet peeve of mine when people try to play around with the company side of a service and beyond. Without the company's approval, the wire is not the customers property and it's somebody's job to do service work. I know people think of it as one small job, but if everybody did it then there would be no job for the guys who do service work.
I work as a troubleshooter for the power company so I deal with customers who think they know more than they do, which is almost every single customer. Once in a while I run into people who know what they're talking about.
Customers will try every once in a while to call in a fake trouble call on their service so they can get their new service hooked up. Sometimes people will cause intentional damage to the service for the same reason. When I show up and have to run a new service, I always hook it up to the old service entry and I let the customer know that next time he will be left without power because it will be cut clear for the inspector to look at.
Sometimes we have to cut a service clear for safety because there is something wrong with the customer side. In that case I think it's ok in my head for the electrician to reconnect after they make repairs because it's not ok for people to be living in a house without power.
I've seen people do some crazy things to get power to their new service. I saw a guy who had built a house across the street from his own house run an extension cord over the 13.8kv primaries to keep it off the street. I dont know how this guy is still alive, but sometimes you just get lucky when you do something stupid with electricity.
I work as a troubleshooter for the power company so I deal with customers who think they know more than they do, which is almost every single customer. Once in a while I run into people who know what they're talking about.
Customers will try every once in a while to call in a fake trouble call on their service so they can get their new service hooked up. Sometimes people will cause intentional damage to the service for the same reason. When I show up and have to run a new service, I always hook it up to the old service entry and I let the customer know that next time he will be left without power because it will be cut clear for the inspector to look at.
Sometimes we have to cut a service clear for safety because there is something wrong with the customer side. In that case I think it's ok in my head for the electrician to reconnect after they make repairs because it's not ok for people to be living in a house without power.
I've seen people do some crazy things to get power to their new service. I saw a guy who had built a house across the street from his own house run an extension cord over the 13.8kv primaries to keep it off the street. I dont know how this guy is still alive, but sometimes you just get lucky when you do something stupid with electricity.
comedyman809
Well-known member
the pole fuses i see in that link are on the line side.
are there fuses on the load side as well protecting the transformer itself?
are there fuses on the load side as well protecting the transformer itself?
Tscott
Well-known member
Depends on the type of transformer. Some types have internal fused links. Most of the ones we use have a line side fuse that will blow should a sufficient fault occur. For most residential type transformers you are looking at a 3-5amp fuse.
Tom
foolishpride
Well-known member
You probably meant to say a 30-50 Amp fuse link. I've never seen a 3 or 5 Amp fuse link, and I've changed alot of them out over the years. It's just a piece of stranded copper wire. So a 30 Amp fuse link would be about the size of a piece of #10 AWG wire.
VDubJoe
Well-known member
He is correct. On the line side we fuse at 1/5 th the trans kv rating. Most res trans are in the 25 to 50 kva size.
So a 25 would use a 5 amp. and so forth.
Joe
Jarcese
Well-known member
Depends on the primary voltage. Around here we run 25kv, 13.8 kv, and 4kv. For a 50 kva transformer its 5 amp, 10amp, and 30 amp. Most areas run higher voltages so you will have smaller fuses.
Tscott
Well-known member
Yep, I was refering to the line side fuses. We have been converting our system to 14.4 from 7200 for a while now and I think we are almost done after this year.
Tom
Tom
rwhite692
Well-known member
Not trying to argue, but I find that really hard to believe...Did you mean to say that they "refuse to help", for free?
Have you considered hiring a local electrician for his expertise? Sometimes, permits are required any time a change is made to service...Your local electrician will no doubt be familiar with how the process works in your area and also probably knows the right people to talk to at your utility to get this done quickly.
Don't try making a live service connection.
sdowney717
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Is it possible that some areas have some kind of union pressure on industry so when the homeowner would want to do something, they wont move on it unless union people are involved? Or it could be they refuse to work with any homeowner wiring even if inspected and approved?
I seem to recall Chicago or New York had something like that. Had to be licensed, bonded, certified, unionized? electrician doing all the work?
In my area, the service upgrade is permitted by the code office, the work done by anyone, the work is inspected. IF they have to come out for more than one reinspection, they tell you it might cost you more money.
On the permit application, you have to put some information on who is doing the work. It is possible they might deny giving you the permit, if they deem you inept.
I seem to recall Chicago or New York had something like that. Had to be licensed, bonded, certified, unionized? electrician doing all the work?
In my area, the service upgrade is permitted by the code office, the work done by anyone, the work is inspected. IF they have to come out for more than one reinspection, they tell you it might cost you more money.
On the permit application, you have to put some information on who is doing the work. It is possible they might deny giving you the permit, if they deem you inept.
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rhastings80
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I had my panel board replaced about 4 years ago. Before my house had old fuses and I needed a upgrade anyways. I hired a licensed electrician and he also pulled a permit and it was inspected. The guy was very nice and I watched as he replaced the wires going through the mast on our roof. I watched him and after he was done I asked him about it. From what he said since he had pulled the meter there was no load on the 3 wires so no current draw. He just climbed up on the roof wearing plain old leather gloves and cut into each wire one at a time and then used a plain old razor blade to trim the insulation on each wire. Then he used some kind of special crimp connections. I watched and there were no sparks or anything. He also appeared very clam do it like it was no big deal. I was quite amazed. I suppose if you understand electricity and there isn't any path to ground or current flowing through you are fine. Still it was quite interesting to watch and not something I would want to do myself. He said where I live the homeowner is responsible for hooking up to your house. IE the local power utility doesn't turn off the power when you need to replace your mast or wires and it up to the electrician to do it.
hofferwood
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You need to go higher up in the DTE food chain, from the meter to the pole and so on is theirs.
Does the fireman say "I hooked up the hose, you put it out"?
Mention MI-OSHA, doesn't really apply to "you" but implications of neglect, on the DTE end kinda opens their ears.
Chuck
sdowney717
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yes, look at the birds sitting on the wires, some of those wires are uninsulated carrying voltage.
When the tree fell and tore the line from the splice, I also used a razor blade to trim off the insulation, wore gloves and lived to tell the tale.
My wife panicked and thought I would be killed.
kenfath
Well-known member
About 40 years ago I helped a friend upgrade his two wire, inside meter, two fuse/circuit 35 AMP home wiring. We located some 3X copper wire SO the new panel was going to be 200 AMP, keep in mind this was a time when upgrading to 100 AMP with outside meters was a big thing. My friend pulled his permit and the clerk gave him a phone number for the POCO to call before starting. They sent a rep out to discuss the job.
I attended the meeting and it was most informative. The POCO rep recommended locating the new entrance and meter on the opposite side of the house along with some other helpful info and tips Then he went on to explain the new service had to be energized before it could receive final inspection. Of course we asked "how do you do that?" He explained you simply jumper the old service to the new. I'm sure the look on our faces convinced the man more explanation was needed. He thoroughly explained "the electrician" in this case the home owner, applied a temporary jumper which was spliced to the existing wires. He gave us some used wire for the jumper. It was the same kind of wire, probably #6, that connected the house.
When the big day came and after several hours of thinking and planning the task (job briefing in today's terminology) and using insulated gloves we cut away about the three inches of insulation and made a wrap around splice. Did one splice at a time and had the first one taped/insulated before starting the second.
To this day I still have a little bewilderment over making the connection. What we did was done safely but it still seems like the POCO should have made that connection. The other concern was the jumper wires strung across the porch roof for about 4 days.
One final note -- the inspection went fine, it really was a good looking job! Inspector pulled on the EMTs going into the top of the new panel then followed the ground wire noting where it connected to the water pipe, then followed the water pipe checking for a jumper cable at the meter. He exclaimed "fine job, I'll call it right in" and in the late afternoon the POCO made the permanent connection. And Yes, they took the loaned wire with them.
I attended the meeting and it was most informative. The POCO rep recommended locating the new entrance and meter on the opposite side of the house along with some other helpful info and tips Then he went on to explain the new service had to be energized before it could receive final inspection. Of course we asked "how do you do that?" He explained you simply jumper the old service to the new. I'm sure the look on our faces convinced the man more explanation was needed. He thoroughly explained "the electrician" in this case the home owner, applied a temporary jumper which was spliced to the existing wires. He gave us some used wire for the jumper. It was the same kind of wire, probably #6, that connected the house.
When the big day came and after several hours of thinking and planning the task (job briefing in today's terminology) and using insulated gloves we cut away about the three inches of insulation and made a wrap around splice. Did one splice at a time and had the first one taped/insulated before starting the second.
To this day I still have a little bewilderment over making the connection. What we did was done safely but it still seems like the POCO should have made that connection. The other concern was the jumper wires strung across the porch roof for about 4 days.
One final note -- the inspection went fine, it really was a good looking job! Inspector pulled on the EMTs going into the top of the new panel then followed the ground wire noting where it connected to the water pipe, then followed the water pipe checking for a jumper cable at the meter. He exclaimed "fine job, I'll call it right in" and in the late afternoon the POCO made the permanent connection. And Yes, they took the loaned wire with them.
cowboyjosh
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Heres the pot calling the kettle black. Just Monday I replaced a late 1970's FPE panel in Highlands Ranch, Co; and didn't kill the utility power, because dealing with XCEL is a PITA; anyways removed the service wires very carefully, reinstalled the new Square D Homeline panel, called in the inspection from the county, it passed of course, and the job was done. In this case the service is underground, and we didn't upgrade the service capacity, which is only 100 amps (smaller house); the HO simply wanted their FPE panel replaced.
sdowney717
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FPE stab lok breakers?
My old FPE stab lok fuse panel had the same design and was arcing off the bus between the bus and fuse holders. Pretty bad design although it did last 35 years. I only noticed because the dryer quit working.
My old FPE stab lok fuse panel had the same design and was arcing off the bus between the bus and fuse holders. Pretty bad design although it did last 35 years. I only noticed because the dryer quit working.
It's easier to have Mr. Paco (read: your ute) connect down the meter, and make your life connection there, where it's much easier to NOT slaughter yourself. The weatherhead and overhead connections have to been done with all our fancy, ball-melting PPE on.. or at least that's how NiMo taught me.
However, I've connected a couple dozen electrical services live in the meter boxen, and somehow still breathe..again, this is how a professional electrical engineer told me to do it, and it has worked so far. It's still weird that they *refuse* to help you, the drop is usually their problem, although there are exceptions in some places.
However, I've connected a couple dozen electrical services live in the meter boxen, and somehow still breathe..again, this is how a professional electrical engineer told me to do it, and it has worked so far. It's still weird that they *refuse* to help you, the drop is usually their problem, although there are exceptions in some places.
burleymike
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cowboyjosh funny you replaced a panel in Hilands Ranch. My parents lived in a subdivision a few miles. The people that bought their house wanted the FPE panel replaced before they closed. The electrician that replaced the panel said the same thing about XCEL being a PITA. The builders in the 1980s in that area all seem to have used FPE panels, I remember as a kid when the fire trucks came racing into the subdivision to put out a panel fire. It took 5 big fire extinguishers before Public Service CO got there to kill the power.
cowboyjosh
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There are still thousands of FPE panels in the Denver metro, especially 1970's and 80's areas like Centennial, Highlands Ranch, Littleton (C470 Bowles areas / Southwest Plaza area). Funny thing ACE Hardware in Highlands Ranch still sells old stock FPE breakers that look like they have been in the package for 10 years.
Yeah some have started on fire, others show signs of arcing. Some people like to cry a tale of woe in HR about their misfortune of having a house with a obsolete and dangerous electric panel, I always like to be more glass half full and say "well at least your house isn't wired with Aluminum wiring like they are down the street in Littleton and Centennial".
DuramaxPowered
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Where you located at? Send me a PM if neccesary, I might be able to help
Sparks4184
Member
As someone mentioned, the utility co should make ANY hook-up on the utility side of the meter and technically, should be the only entity allowed to open the seal on the meter and remove it. I wonder if they would have you climbing the pole and finding spare connectors on the step down transformer to make hook-ups there? No. Something's wrong here.
Every utility co has a service planning department for everything from service upgrades to subdivision planning. Call them. Ask for a supervisor and have them come out and explain to you what they will do, won't do and why. It sounds to me like they might want to hang a separate SE drop to the garage which you mentioned is 120 feet away from the house. Involving the inspector, while not a bad idea, probably won't do you much good as the utility has the say so about what they will wire up on their facilities and what they won't.
Mark
Every utility co has a service planning department for everything from service upgrades to subdivision planning. Call them. Ask for a supervisor and have them come out and explain to you what they will do, won't do and why. It sounds to me like they might want to hang a separate SE drop to the garage which you mentioned is 120 feet away from the house. Involving the inspector, while not a bad idea, probably won't do you much good as the utility has the say so about what they will wire up on their facilities and what they won't.
Mark
rwhite692
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We haven't heard from the OP since 8/14...Hmmmm
comedyman809
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i wonder if he has earned himself a new nickname......SPARKY!!!!
no I'm not dead... I met with my contractor and he told me that's pretty much standard around here that electricians do their own service hook-ups live. So, I had his electrician come out and make that connection for me. Although he explained it to me and it seemed pretty simple, I'm just not taking a chance with that stuff... so 30min worth of work and 75 bucks later I'm all set! Still pissed at my poco though...