making a living with value tools

[Downwindtracker 2]

I'm retired now and one of my hobbies is repairing/restoring/modifying old machinery. Right now I'm working on some lapidary equipment at a rock and gem club, it should be in the vintage section of the forum. I grabbed a handful of combination wrenches. I had a set Mastercraft Maximums from a job where loss was a possibility. You know something ?! They are pretty nice wrenches ! The difference between say Snap-On and Mastercraft is not that much, not like it was 30 years ago.

 

[Shane6377]

Cheaper tools work well in most applications. I choose to buy USA made for other reasons but it's true that many overseas makers are just as good if not better than USA made stuff.

Tool trucks cater to the automotive industry because of the culture in the industry, not because those tools (at that cost!) are needed. The markup is for the 'service' and name.

I have tools from every tool truck from when I thought I needed them for their superior quality and I can tell you first hand there are many other brands, domestic and international, that are as good or better.


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[Shane6377]

I also see a lot of people who have expensive tool truck tools that they baby and use cheap Asian tools for the tough stuff. That seems backwards to me... but I use tools not collect them.


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[coljar]

I keep mostly cheaper tools like Craftsman in my traveling tool bag which I always carry when going out of town with one of the British cars or the Porsche, but the Stanley guy might have Proto and Snap-on in his toolbox at home.

 

[Farmall450]

Is Stanley Door even affiliated with SBD?

Yes, they are SB&D

 

[Moose97]

we pick on my coworker who uses Ryobi power tools...

Interesting. I started buying Ryobi because it was less expensive and money was an issue at the time. I continued with them because the battery interchangeability. I've never been disappointed with their performance except the battery powered circular saw.

 

[Farmall450]

I wouldn’t be surprised at all. I’ve been in or worked at enough food production facilities to know most of them are using Craftsman, Duralast and Kobalt. Some meters and stuff are Fluke and the like, but the cheapest tools that will work are the choice 99% of the time in those facilities. There’s a million square foot facility in Chicago that’s never even seen a tool truck.

On the flip side, others only buy through approved vendors so their "cheap" stuff is overpriced Grainger house brands, and nice is Proto/DeWalt/etc

 

[crerus75]

The last two places I've worked, I've occasionally gone out to do field installs/field service with the service techs. Two totally unrelated fields, but in both cases the equipment being installed was all in the low-mid 6 figures, sometimes 7 figures. Almost without exception, the service techs would use inexpensive HF/Lowe's/Home Depot tools unless they absolutely needed something of higher quality. Reasons were:

-Easy to find one of those stores in the field. If a ratchet or screwdriver breaks at 8 PM on a Friday and the customer's line has to come back up by Saturday 1st shift, there's not much time to waste. There's almost always a big box store somewhere nearby, even in small towns.

-With some exceptions, most budget hand tools are good enough for installation or service.

-Tool purchases can be submitted as a company expense, and it's sometimes tough to justify expensive tools to the accounting department. Nobody bats an eye at a $30 ratchet.

-Lots of tools get lost or grow legs. One of the service guys I was working with had a brand-new set of high-dollar tap sockets that disappeared in the 15 minutes it took us to walk from one end of the plant to the other. Service guys were CONSTANTLY replacing tools.

BTW, I never saw a broken tool getting warrantied. There usually wasn't enough time. Buy a new one and submit an expense report.

I appreciate high quality tools, but I understand the requirements of field service. Still, it was kind of interesting watching a $400,000 machine being installed with an Evolv ratchet and HF wrenches.

 

[measuredtwice]

Most people ALWAYS used cheap tools. That's nothing new. BUT they used to be AMERICAN MADE cheap tools. Now most stuff is MADE IN CHINA. At my local Sears, there are packages of old stock USA screwdrivers on the same hangers with the made in China screwdrivers. Both are priced the same.

If I picked a random person off the street, like a housewife, she'd probably recommend cheap tools just the same as some of you. Everyone knows cheap tools. They're all over. You don't have to be a "pro" to know it.

 

[William Payne]

We also have to factor in the fact that the “buy American” concept only really applies to that country. I live in New Zealand. It would be great to say hey “buy Kiwi made” but nothing is made here as far as tools go.

 

[toddmorr]

You'd be amazed how much HF (and Gearwrench for ratchets at least) is used in factories these days. It's crazy. Also only a recent development too, like in the last 4 years or so.

Bought by corp purchasing or guys bringing their stuff in do you think?

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[Lassen Forge]

We also have to factor in the fact that the “buy American” concept only really applies to that country. I live in New Zealand. It would be great to say hey “buy Kiwi made” but nothing is made here as far as tools go.

There is a LOT of truth to that... Most of the stuff in my tool chest in Italy is made in the EU or former eastern bloc... the majority is Italian, German, or French made. Some of the "cheaper" stuff is from Poland or China, but I don't see too much made in the USA stuff over there. Once in a while, but it's pretty unusual when I do.

Then again, I don't see some of those awesome Italian tools over here, either (like my left hand metric bits)... I actually keep a list of stuff from there I want here, and vice versa...

 

[measuredtwice]

We also have to factor in the fact that the “buy American” concept only really applies to that country. I live in New Zealand. It would be great to say hey “buy Kiwi made” but nothing is made here as far as tools go.

The OP's location is "NE Ohio" so he's American. It will be different in different countries, of course. But I think most places in the world have seen more and more imports from China.

 

[William Payne]

The OP's location is "NE Ohio" so he's American. It will be different in different countries, of course.

Absolutely. Yes I did notice his location.

One other thing I want to ad is that for a lot of people their tools mean nothing to them. They do the job, they get paid, tool breaks they buy another.

 

[measuredtwice]

Absolutely. Yes I did notice his location.

One other thing I want to ad is that for a lot of people their tools mean nothing to them. They do the job, they get paid, tool breaks they buy another.

I agree that tools mean nothing to most folks. Most folks don't talk about tools online though. When I first joined the forum, I was surprised by how heavily China/Taiwan is pushed on the forum. China/Taiwan tools even gets romanticized. Some times I wonder if I'm reading ad copy --haha.

 

[Batscat]

I went to a local store yesterday, and a guy with a Stanley hat was working on the electric sliding door -- presumably a Stanley Door employee. He had the door off -- adjusting the rollers or something. I noticed he was using HF and Wal-Mart tools. He had a Hart branded tool backpack (Wal-Mart), some HF tools like Pittsburgh Pro ratcheting wrenches, HF bright orange hook and pick set, Pittsburgh Pro screwdrivers, etc.

I almost felt like joking with him about "why don't you buy Stanley tools since you work for them?" Stanley Door and Stanley tools are owned by SBD I assume. There probably is an employee discount of some sort.

But hey, just goes to show if you carefully pick and choose the right tools, even value brands can work for the tradesman.

The tool does not make the mechanic.

 

[Robinson1]

I dont know any professional that doesnt have a atleast a few cheap tools in their rotation of regular use tool. I'm sitting here looking at my main tool bag and I see a Hyper Tough Phillips #2 stubby screwdriver mixed in with a bunch of Proto and Pratt Reed. A pair of slip joint pliers so cheap they dont even have a brand mixed in with the Channel Lock and Klein. A small pair of MIT vise grips right beside a full size pair of Milwaukee. A no name stiff putty knife that probably came from a flea market. Every hex key in the bag are Kobalt folding sets I bought on some Christmas special buy.

This is my main line general use tool bag that comes off the truck first on every job. Everytool in that bag has earned its place. Truck space is limited. Tools are heavy, and I'm not one to carry in a buch of useless **** just to look impressive.

 

[danielbuck]

Some folks feel that they can't work without expensive tools.

 

[jd_1138]

Some folks feel that they can't work without expensive tools.

Yep, pricey tools are nice when wrenching on vehicles with no space in the engine bay. For a door repairman, not so much.

I was impressed by a fridge repairman a few months back that I saw come into the local supermarket to presumably repair a cold storage unit. He had a Craftsman Pro 5 drawer box that sat on top shelf of one of those plastic utility carts that he pushed into the supermarket. He had some parts/pieces down below in the bottom tray. I bet every tool in that box has earned its place. Could be Pittsburgh Pro to Snap-On/Matco/Cornwall/Matco/Proto and everything in between.

 

[sberry]

I started with a small collection I should have expanded faster. But wanted a bunch now when I needed thjem and didn't want to fugg around a career collecting and bought the Sears super set in 81, It had all the big sockets and wrenches, taps dies in metric too. I have a few specialty stuff, a bit of duplication, added pliers and combo in dupes and bunch of 1/2 impact sockets.
The stuff was junk in 81, I had some older stuff and it was great I was disappointed when it come, mail order in those days. I replaced some sockets mainly, the wrenches are clumsy but tuff. It served its purpose, still use a lot of it today, I am happy if it works, I can reach for something particular if I need to.

 

[Bert_]

I think the average tradesman uses less and/or cheaper tools then the average GJ'er.

Seriously I just want a tool that has the most bang for the buck. Sometimes it's the high end stuff more often it's the Craftsman or equivalent.

 

[sberry]

I had this debate 40 yrs ago way before the Internet. I bought a handful of good stuff, some good machines. I felt a little different, choices are so much better but with the exception of a few. Common brand name pieces I use with so high frequency that it makes less difference or don't care as much.
I got a little less of the golden arm than I had. The collection is worth more than the parts.
I got no problem using an adjustable, still mastering it and the 440 Channelok.

 

[sberry]

I had this debate 40 yrs ago way before the Internet. I bought a handful of good stuff, some good machines. I felt a little different, choices are so much better but with the exception of a few. Common brand name pieces I use with so high frequency that it makes less difference or don't care as much.
I got a little less of the golden arm than I had. The collection is worth more than the parts.
I got no problem using an adjustable, still mastering it and the 440 Channelok.

 

[sberry]

I meant to say the older I get the less I care.

 

[Vpick001]

I suppose this is as good of place to share this as any.

My grandfather was a guy I looked up to more than anyone. His day job was as a typesetter for a local newspaper, but in his spare time he tinkered like no one else. He would do repairs on the house, his car, landscape his yard, make wind chimes, carve tiki poles from old utility poles, and so much more. The man was a damn wizard, and as a kid I always just assumed that he had a hell of a tool arsenal.

Well, fast forward to a few years back after he passed away. I went through his old tools, and was surprised to find a mishmash of Chinese tools with a few Craftsman USA mixed in. Nothing fancy. In retrospect it seems obvious, but he just used his tools as a means to an end, and had exactly what he needed to get his work done. I can’t say the same for myself, as I seem to be a sucker for buying a near endless amount of variations of the same tool, “just in case I need it”.

Anyway, you can get good work done with just about any budget. At least my grandad did.

 

[sberry]

One of my buds made an auto living in his garage. He eventually bought a couple SK small socket sets. But he was basic, not scared to buy what he needed but not a compulsive collector and had 1 of most stuff, vs 3 or 4. Most of the hand tool fit on a service cart, some more in a used Sears cab.
I remember 1 day said,,, I lost my deep 1/4 drive 8mm, saw the tool truck across the street, 32$ maybe it seems. That was enough. I replaced a couple small wrenches I lost the same way,, 30 a piece. Last time I was on the truck too.
Stick it to me cash pay without a smile and fuss over a couple guys charging up an armful.
When we had auto parts that was SK dealer I bought a few pieces, 7 or 8 dollars as singles. Wasnt bad if a guy needed it right then. I bought some house brand impacts, ATD and Duro, beat a few of them really bad, parts store warranted them at next delivery.

 

[sberry]

I got a **** load of Klein, they are worn out. I bought a couple Hf screwdrivers a while back, like them as good or better and 1.50 for one I like better than one I paid 7 for 25 yrs ago. Only thing I valve a hard time getting away from is 440 and Standard vise grips, 6, 7 10 and 11R. 99E knife, 9 side cutters, the rest doesn't matter much.

 

[The Fall]

Back home, the guys at the cabinet shop all had solid tools. The tools don't make the cabinetmaker, but the real craftsman at the shop -- who'd turn all our legs, do structure welding for heavy floating shelves/bar counter tops -- he'd always buy the best. He had everything.

The guys who had cheap tools didn't last. They'd tend to phone it in. They weren't serious about woodworking; they felt like slipping in a few Harbor Freight power tools was okay. My dad ran the shop and he'd gently suggest they upgrade their tools. I can only think of two guys in a couple of decades who did that. It was understood that we ran a high-end shop and that dodgy HF portable belt sander didn't have the guts to do much of anything. That's not tool snobbery. The shop paid a living wage even during the recession and it was expected that you'd have quality tools to get the job done right.

HF's woodworking tools are bad. I think they do better on mechanics tools, specifically impact sockets. I think you can get away with more as a mechanic.

 

[Motorman55]

When I was a kid 1950/60's, we'd go to Sears all the time for most everything we needed. Clothes, toys, car batteries and everything in between including tools. My mother and father would go about their shopping and they'd tell me not to get lost and I'd tell them I'll be over by the tools and equipment dept.

And it was at the tool area that I would let my imagination go wild as I saw myself using all the cool wrenches and sockets working on my '57 to 62 'Vette in the garage of the big house in the great neighborhood that we never did manage to obtain.

I remember Sears would have the large Craftsman tool combination sets displayed. Select sets would be displayed on a board with the catalog breakdown list, especially around Christmas time. Man did I want to have one of their really large 100 plus tool sets and their special Tune Up gauge sets.

Everything was in those sets from 1/4" to 3/4", breaker bars, screwdrivers, hammers and even a hacksaw with extra blades and you name it. The really small ignition wrenches being my absolute favorite as well as the big 1" sockets and ratchets.

That was my introduction into Craftsman 'Made in the USA' tools and those memories have stuck with me all these years. I still have US Made Craftsman tools in my boxes and I've used them all my life in multiple career fields and still do in my now 'retired' one man, 1 car garage.

Some guys like to put down the Craftsman brand in praise of SO, but for me Sears 'Made in the USA' Craftsman tools were king of them all.

 

[WittHay]

I have never heard of any one recommending professional mechanics tools to somebody in building trades. No need for it. Easy access and low torque. Usually bought at the most convenient brick and mortar store. The money goes more into trade specific and power tools

The millwrights I have known weren't tool collectors. Wanted the minimum of cheap but good enough tools to do the job. Import industrial brands are popular around here

Value priced tools used in places where a tool truck might stop or a parts store would deliver is a hot topic. Taiwan tools are a good value for the buck but I think North American tools are better. Its seems no matter what cheaper tool you bought, you always wish to replace it with a better version

 

[Rabid Badger]

The human race has advance to the point where we can consistently manufacture quality chunks of metal cheaply.

It was bound to happen eventually; technology advances, prices go down.

 

[Downwindtracker 2]

I started out as a carpenter, even got my trade tickets, Red Seal in all. The wrenches carried in my tool box were really pathetic ('70s) ,an open end little pack, Gedore, made in India, short and thin. I might have used them twice maybe in 10 years.

 

[bwringer]

I have never heard of any one recommending processional mechanics tools to somebody in building trades. No need for it. Easy access and low torque. Usually bought at the most convenient brick and mortar store. The money goes more into trade specific and power tools
...

Yup. That door repair guy probably had his well-worn but trusty Fluke meter handcuffed to his body. Screwdrivers and such... eh.

 

[ChevyEFI]

Could he just have been wearing a Stanley hat and not working for Stanley? I have lots of hats and t-shirts with company logos and I don't have any affiliation with the companies. They were just freebies.

Except for the youngsters, most folks have seen American made tools being replaced by cheap China/Taiwan tools at Sears and our local hardware stores. So it should not be surprising to see people using cheap China/Taiwan tools that have flooded every store that sells tools these days.

Anything is possible, but Stanley has some industrial services I have seen around the Phoenix valley including door services specifically. Based on the logo, they gotta be somehow related to ̶S̶i̶l̶e̶n̶t̶ ̶B̶u̶t̶ ̶D̶e̶a̶d̶l̶y̶; I mean Stanley Black Decker.

 

[jd_1138]

Anything is possible, but Stanley has some industrial services I have seen around the Phoenix valley including door services specifically. Based on the logo, they gotta be somehow related to ̶S̶i̶l̶e̶n̶t̶ ̶B̶u̶t̶ ̶D̶e̶a̶d̶l̶y̶; I mean Stanley Black Decker.

Yeah his hat had this logo. They have a different logo now. This is the same logo on their tools, hardware products, industrial services, etc..

 

[measuredtwice]

I have lots of hats with similar logos (Dewalt, Milwaukee, Porter-Cable, Budweiser, etc) but I don't have any affiliation with the companies. Just got the hats for free. If his hat said, "Stanley Door Repair" that would be different. ...The dude probably wondered why you were checking him out --haha!


I inherited all of the tools from both of my grandfathers. All of the tools had little monetary value. But there was not a single tool made in China. None. People always made a living with inexpensive tools but they were made in the USA back then. Some USA tools were cheap and some were expensive. If you couldn't buy the cheap USA made tools then you bought used. Tools were worn down to the nub... plier teeth were remade with a file... edged tools were sharpened... by hand. Today's culture sees everything as disposable.

 

[bobcatdan]

Where I work, craftsman is considered the expensive tool brand by journeyman millrights and electricians. That said if we break a tool, the company will replace it Proto, Williams or Wright.

 

[Downwindtracker 2]

And that is how millwrights get all those nice Proto tools.

I can speak to what tools carpenters used. I'm old enough to have spanned the time from when portable electric tools were expensive, contractors were reluctant to supply them and when they did, they were not very good. Electric drills, a case in point.

Handsaws were common, every household had one, something like the cheap Disston K-3 , whereas a carpenter would save up for a D-8, or if he was good and made good money, a D-12. The D-12 would have four or five screws, a nicely shaped with carving rosewood handle. A D-8 would still have a nice handle. only it would be applewood. The K-3 would only have three screws and beech handle so poorly shaped as to raise blisters just looking at it.

 

[kctyphoon]

If expensive tools were a necessity to do anything, this country would have never been built..

 

[Downwindtracker 2]

No,all tools were expensive.