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Making a living wrenching

KEH

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I've read the posts on flat rate vs. hourly rate, etc., and am dismayed at how difficult is is to make a decent living working at a skilled trade that requires a big investment in tools and equipment. My question is, how well are the independent mechanics doing? I've known any number of one or 2 man shops down through the years and wonder how well they do?

KEH
 
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malodin

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in my area not very well, an autoparts store that has been serving the community for 30+yrs is closing its doors in dec. these guys were the best set of countermen/women you could ever find they knew there stuff no reason they should be going out of business. as well as two local shops that buy from them went from 3-4 person crews with office managers etc. down to the owner only...its kinda scary to think about.
 

NHBandit

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In the part of TN I now live in there are more closed shops than open ones. New car manufacturers make it harder every year for independant shops to survive and it's only going to get worse. What smalltime garage owner just starting out can afford the tens of thousands of dollars in specialized testing equipment the new cars require ? Quick lube places & tire stores are the only ones who are going to be around 20 years from now. Just my humble opinion. I was in the business for 40 years before I retired. If I was a young guy trying to find my way now I'd do something else for a living.
 
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zmotorsports

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I think it depends on what kind of wrenching you are talking about. As far as automotive dealerships around our area, the pickings are prett slim as far as work. I know one lead tech at the local GM dealership and he seems to stay busy but he is probably the exception, plus I think the company takes pretty good care of him as he has been with them for over 20 years now and brings a lot of money in for the company.

As far as independent shops I know of two that are doing pretty well but they have been in business a long, long time and have a pretty good clientele built up. A few other independent shops have come and gone in the past several years.

My side business is doing pretty well and I do not work off of flat rate. I charge time plus materials and work on about anything and everything. The hi-performance/custom work is down a bit but the general repairs and welding jobs are keeping me pretty consistant and busy.

When you get away from the automotive side of wrenching things are much better in our area. Heavy equipment and industrial maintenance are two areas that are paying well and there is plenty of work. No shortage of work or hours with the company I am with in the industrial side of things. Pay is good, benefits are good and the overall working conditions are pretty good, expcept if you listen to a few of my co-workers who are habitual complainers, then things are bad. However, I think it would be bad for them no matter where they were go.

Mike.
 

justanengineer

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I would ask you to define "wrenching" and "big investment" in tools. Compared to a machinist's, an auto mechanic's tools are pretty cheap. Compared to Jiffy Lube, a dealer shop has a big investment in tools. Compared to a cnc job shop, a dealer shop has a tiny investment in tools.

Something Ive always been told and believe to be true, those that are truly good at what they do and work hard rarely need to look for work. People cry about money and the "difficulty" of making it, its something that happens regardless of the economy or time period. People b!^ch bc its what they do. It would be nice if we all could work 40/wk and make $100k or whatever is decent in your area, but very few of us do. In reality, I get paid for 40, work 60-80 and end up making not much more than good tech would. Similarly, those CEOs that many gripe about making millions per year dont enjoy much of a home life, or personal life period in many cases....sorry to burst the bubble.
 

bigbearcraig

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I live in a smallish resort town, and the nearest dealership is an hour to an hour and half away. There are numerous independent shops here that seem to do well and have been here for many years. I'm sure the warranty stuff and repairs that need the high tech diagnostics get flatbedded down the mountain, but there are plenty of other repairs that need to be done, and can be done by good mechanics. I think the secret of the independent shop is to be located far away from the big dealerships.
 

Vinci

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I think it depends heavily on the market. A buddy of mine runs a one-man shop out of his home garage/shop and has a waiting list of customers who ship him cars from around the country. He just happens to be "the" guy for the kind of work he does.

I imagine it would be a lot harder to be a one-man shop that works on anything and everything, since the investment in equipment to service all that large of a market would be gigantic, plus the competition would be a lot higher.
 

Perrorojo

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The shops where I live are only open because they have a proven history of quality work in the area. New shops seem to open every few months and close fairly quickly. We have a Midas franchise that has had been reopened and closed 3 times in the last 4 years. As for me, I've never been able to justify going all in. I work on stuff for people I know and take only the jobs I want. I was self employed until my wife got pregnant. Then I went and found work that came with insurance.
 

zmotorsports

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Something Ive always been told and believe to be true, those that are truly good at what they do and work hard rarely need to look for work. People cry about money and the "difficulty" of making it, its something that happens regardless of the economy or time period. People b!^ch bc its what they do. It would be nice if we all could work 40/wk and make $100k or whatever is decent in your area, but very few of us do. In reality, I get paid for 40, work 60-80 and end up making not much more than good tech would. Similarly, those CEOs that many gripe about making millions per year dont enjoy much of a home life, or personal life period in many cases....sorry to burst the bubble.


Couldn't agree more. I feel if a mechanic is good at what he does he will not be hurting for work. Maybe that is a little naive but that is what I have witnessed over many years.

My wife and I make a good living, nowhere near those CEO wages that you talk of but we have a good life together. I see some of our upper management here making fantastic money, however, they are miserable people and have no life away from work as far as I can tell. By the way they treat people you can tell they are not happy individuals.

My co-workers go on and on about how much our mangament makes but personally it is none of my business and I wouldn't trade my life for theirs in a million years. Truth be known my wife and I are probably more financially independent than most of them. It seems like they are always buying new cars or trucks and always complaining about how much things cost.

Mike.
 

thooks

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If I were wanting to work on cars for a living, I'd pick one or two manufacturers (Honda/Acura; Toyota/Scion/Lexus; Hyundai/Kia) and specialize...

I'd imagine it's a whole helluva lot easier to keep up to date on a couple of brands that come out of the same umbrella versus trying to keep up with Ford, Chrapslier, Govt Motors, Honda, Benz, etc...

There's also the trust that is implied if you are an "Independent Honda/Acura Shop"...there's always small, specific procedures that should be followed for each MFG. Knowing these and expressing the knowledge to your informed customers would go a long way.

For example...if I were to take my Hondas to a 'Honda' shop and saw a rack of Honda coolant, PS Fluid, ATF, etc....I would leave there in the morning with a warm fuzzy.

Just an opinion from a desk jockey....that tries to keep up with his cars, versus paying someone to do it.
 
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KEH

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Define "wrenching' and "big investment". Well, I was just using wrenching as the shorthand term others use on here to refer to actually doing the hands dirty physical work on cars, plus the equally important diagonosis of vehicles. As for big investment I've heard various figures mentioned on here and in personal conversations locally. People seem to be concerned/impressed in the $20,000-$40,000 range. I have an idea about how much it would cost for a beginning mechanic to get enough HAND tools to get started, but that's only because I've bought tools and haven't earned money with them very often.

I have no idea about machinists expenses.

KEH
 

barks

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It has to be getting more difficult to make a living at auto work. Some ideas, not necessarily the whole answer---The business has been and continues change rapidly. One, vehicles need much less attention for maintenance and repairs, although the average age of vehicles on the road increases, more people are leasing and turning vehicles in before problems crop up and dealers now make no money on new sales, some on used sales and are turning to the service departments as the only profit center. Their size, volume and close connection with the buying customer gives them an edge in out maneuvering the independent shop. Maybe. Also, many people have no idea how the thing works, so have an affinity for the place where they bought it. Why would they think about or trust an independent? It looks like a tough ride for independents.
 

crewchief888

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Couldn't agree more. I feel if a mechanic is good at what he does he will not be hurting for work. Maybe that is a little naive but that is what I have witnessed over many years.

My co-workers go on and on about how much our mangament makes but personally it is none of my business and I wouldn't trade my life for theirs in a million years.

:thumbup:

i agree

i've been wrenching at const eq dealers since '84, the longest i was out of work was 6 weeks, and that was after a 1200 mile move after my divorce.
in 10 years at one ( 18-22 mechanics) dealership i saw over 100 mechanics come and go, some made it 90 days, others didnt make it till the end of their 1st day. my current shop (never more than 5 mechanics) has probably had 50 come through the doors in 13 years.
there have only been 2 or 3 that were worth a damn.

i dont make what my boss makes, but i dont have the headaches of trying to run a multimillion dollar operation, 5 branch stores spread out over the chicagoland area.
but he dont get as dirty as i do :lol_hitti

:beer:
 

atwageman

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The independent mechanic I use is still going strong, despite the current economic realities. Over the years besides the heavy investment in hand tools, he's also invested and kept up with latest diagnostic tools/software so he doesn't have to turn work away. He's eluded to me a few times the assanine amount of money he's spent in diagnostic stuff for various makes and models and my jaw hits the floor.

Because of this investment, he picks up a lot work other independent shops can't deal with or screw up. He deals with a lot of uneducated consumers who come to him after they went to some other independent shop and their BMW or whatever still runs like ****. He asks the customer if their previous mechanic hooked up the car to the appropriate computer/software to tell him what the car may or may not be doing........simply changing the oil, fluids, plugs/wires is sometimes not enough to get the car back to right these days......the looks in the customers faces are sometimes priceless.

Experience and $$$resources$$$ keep him going. He still manages to undercut the dealerships prices and employ 4 full time techs with nice benefits.

Sorry for the long ramble.
 

pipsters

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I work for an airline, not as a mechanic but as a pilot. If you like working on things being an A&P is a pretty good way to go. I work directly with them, all good guys. There is a career progression, and the tool investment is fairly minimal when compared to these huge tool boxes that you see posted here. The companies provide all special tools. You don't make a ton of money starting out. Mid 30's. But that is literally right after you get out of school with ZERO experience. Pay rapidly goes up, overtime can be unlimited at times.

If you really want to make money look into being an avionics tech, you get great money plus even a bonus to come to most of the lower tier companies.

Most guys at my company leave in under a year to Boeing down the street for massive pay raises...
 

echerbst

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I have been running my own operation for 6 years. I am always busy and have a great customer base. However I work on everything from Porsche to gm to BMW. All of them. I have a great amount invested in speciality tools, scanner, smoke machine , ac machine etc. it is not easy working on such a variety of cars. U cannot know everything just impossible. I never have to turn away work because there is nothing I can't handle. U will not make millions running a one man shop just not possible. U will run ragged and be beat all the time. If u have have to fix the cars order parts and call customers time is hard to find. I have a few helpers that come when I need extra help so that helps me out a lot. I have over 100k invested in equipment / tools over the years. Just something to ponder. The industry is making it harder for independents and in 10-15 years gonna be brutual to keep up. So I am sure all u will see is tire and brake shops and dealers.
 

brownbagg

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i went to a tire store to get a flat fix, just a nail. they had a 100 dollar hour mecahnic charge, so they charge me $52 for a nail. next day the same tire was flat, and still they wanted to charge me another $52

so do you think Im going back there, you think Im going tell everybody how bad they are. and you wonder why so many are out of business. walmart $7 dollar plug kit
 

chevy.stroker

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i went to a tire store to get a flat fix, just a nail. they had a 100 dollar hour mecahnic charge, so they charge me $52 for a nail. next day the same tire was flat, and still they wanted to charge me another $52

so do you think Im going back there, you think Im going tell everybody how bad they are. and you wonder why so many are out of business. walmart $7 dollar plug kit

Try Discount Tire next time for free.
 

snowman1981

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i went to a tire store to get a flat fix, just a nail. they had a 100 dollar hour mecahnic charge, so they charge me $52 for a nail. next day the same tire was flat, and still they wanted to charge me another $52

so do you think Im going back there, you think Im going tell everybody how bad they are. and you wonder why so many are out of business. walmart $7 dollar plug kit

we dont plug tires anymore but do patch them and if your a repeat customer its free.

i work at a independent shop in maryland and we have stayed busy but we are for the most part appointment only and we have 3 main mechanics and 2 oil change/tire kids. our labor rate is $99.87. i myself make around 55-60 hours a week flat rate and the other tech thats been there 20 years turns 80+ hours a week . i do side work out of my house on the weekends and charge $60 a hour . i always seem to have a waiting list of someone needing something done.
 
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ra42mario

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I agree they probably did not plug it, but patched it. To patch a tire you have to remove the valve cover, demount it, clean it, inspect it, patch it, remount it, set the bead, rebalance it, and install it back on the car. A 1/2 hour labor for that sounds reasonable.

I do not do tire patches/plugs at my shop simply for this reason. It takes up too much time, and customers don't want to pay for it without the lip service. I am to busy to deal with it, so I simply don't offer it.
 

rev177

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I agree they probably did not plug it, but patched it. To patch a tire you have to remove the valve cover, demount it, clean it, inspect it, patch it, remount it, set the bead, rebalance it, and install it back on the car. A 1/2 hour labor for that sounds reasonable.

I do not do tire patches/plugs at my shop simply for this reason. It takes up too much time, and customers don't want to pay for it without the lip service. I am to busy to deal with it, so I simply don't offer it.

Industry standards call for a patch plug type repair. You are taking on a hug liability if you plug a tire

We used to plug tires but the risk is now to high we follow all standards by manufacturer so we have a leg to stand on

http://www.tirereview.com/Article/85241/faulty_tire_repair_brings_228_million_court_award.aspx
 

rev177

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I have been running my own operation for 6 years. I am always busy and have a great customer base. However I work on everything from Porsche to gm to BMW. All of them. I have a great amount invested in speciality tools, scanner, smoke machine , ac machine etc. it is not easy working on such a variety of cars. U cannot know everything just impossible. I never have to turn away work because there is nothing I can't handle. U will not make millions running a one man shop just not possible. U will run ragged and be beat all the time. If u have have to fix the cars order parts and call customers time is hard to find. I have a few helpers that come when I need extra help so that helps me out a lot. I have over 100k invested in equipment / tools over the years. Just something to ponder. The industry is making it harder for independents and in 10-15 years gonna be brutual to keep up. So I am sure all u will see is tire and brake shops and dealers.

I really doubt it specialization is the key. There is no way you can PROPERLY work on all makes and models. We have plenty of work and have grown 10% for the last two years. Specializing in three to four car lines that we have proper tools training and equipment for is what keeps us busy.
 

zmotorsports

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I have been running my own operation for 6 years. I am always busy and have a great customer base. However I work on everything from Porsche to gm to BMW. All of them. I have a great amount invested in speciality tools, scanner, smoke machine , ac machine etc. it is not easy working on such a variety of cars. U cannot know everything just impossible. I never have to turn away work because there is nothing I can't handle. U will not make millions running a one man shop just not possible. U will run ragged and be beat all the time. If u have have to fix the cars order parts and call customers time is hard to find. I have a few helpers that come when I need extra help so that helps me out a lot. I have over 100k invested in equipment / tools over the years. Just something to ponder. The industry is making it harder for independents and in 10-15 years gonna be brutual to keep up. So I am sure all u will see is tire and brake shops and dealers.


This is almost identical to my operation other than not a lot of European cars. I work on domestics and quite a few imports less European. I have been wrenching on things for 25+ years and have had my business license since 1997. I end up getting a lot of jobs that other shops either can't or won't fix and don't specialize in one, two or ever three manufacturers. What sets my operation apart from some of the other local businesses is the attention to detail and the customers really respond favorably to that. I treat their vehicles/toys like they were my own.

I play with many of my customers off road with either Jeeps or sand toys and ride Harleys with many of them. They trust me 110% and I appreciate that and don't take that lightly.

Although it is a little more tiresome trying to find information at times I feel a shop can work on many brands models and still be proficient, make money and do the job PROPERLY, unlike another poster that thinks specializing is the only way to run a shop.

Mike.
 

rev177

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This is almost identical to my operation other than not a lot of European cars. I work on domestics and quite a few imports less European. I have been wrenching on things for 25+ years and have had my business license since 1997. I end up getting a lot of jobs that other shops either can't or won't fix and don't specialize in one, two or ever three manufacturers. What sets my operation apart from some of the other local businesses is the attention to detail and the customers really respond favorably to that. I treat their vehicles/toys like they were my own.

I play with many of my customers off road with either Jeeps or sand toys and ride Harleys with many of them. They trust me 110% and I appreciate that and don't take that lightly.

Although it is a little more tiresome trying to find information at times I feel a shop can work on many brands models and still be proficient, make money and do the job PROPERLY, unlike another poster that thinks specializing is the only way to run a shop.

Mike.


I come from working on Euro car so maybe my perspective is different. However I can say with confidence there is no way a general repair shop can properly fix lat model BMW/Mercedes cars. I see so many hacked up cars from GS shops its crazy. I find it better to find a niche and stay there. I have a shop that doesn't want to work on Euro cars I send all my clients "other" cars to him.
 

uniballer

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If you do it for a living, you still need a second money maker to survive! Recycling, or other trade, wrenching is for me a second money maker.
 

rev177

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If you do it for a living, you still need a second money maker to survive! Recycling, or other trade, wrenching is for me a second money maker.

I have made a living in the Automotive field for 12 years. Never had to do SIDE WORK I never will, its not very ethical and frankly pretty risky.

I have earned a very fair living in this field. Just my 2 cents
 

zmotorsports

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I have made a living in the Automotive field for 12 years. Never had to do SIDE WORK I never will, its not very ethical and frankly pretty risky.

I have earned a very fair living in this field. Just my 2 cents


Just out of curiosity, could you explain the unethical part to me. Maybe I am missing something.

Mike.
 

rev177

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Just out of curiosity, could you explain the unethical part to me. Maybe I am missing something.

Mike.

When you do side work do you have proper insurance and licenses. Gennerly side works involves taking work that "could" go to your employer keeping you employed. Everyone will have different opinions on this I just don't see that as professional or Ethical. I don't see Lawyer and Doctors doing side work. There is no reason if you are good at this profession you can't work M-F 8-6 and earn a great living.
 
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KEH

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Re: Mercedes repair. A friend has a several years old large Merdedes diesel, bought new(don't know model number). He is very good mechanically, among other things, started a alternator-starter-rewinding armature business and has retired from that. He wants to replace the serpentine belt on the car and space between the radiator and the front of the engine is limited. Manual calls for removing plastic dirt guards from bottom of car and maybe removing radiator, don't remember, and working on car from bottom. He did not want to do this or pay the large repair bill. Without seeing one, he designed and made a S belt tool like the Cornwell model HR734. He also figured he would need something like the Cornwell SL94170A, again, never having seen one, and figured a nail in the end of a broomstick would work. Now, the spring loaded tension pulley is held in place by a Torx fastener and the company plan is to put a Torx bit in the fastener and rotate the pully slightly to release tension on the belt. Ok, he built a tool with a Torx bit welded in the end of a flat strap(forget using a breaker bar or ratchet, not enough room), but this started to unscrew the fastener. He has added another pivoting strap to the first one, with a rubber wrapped L shaped end which he says grabs the pulley enough to release tension. I haven't seen this modification and he hasn't changed the belt yet. I expect to see it finished by the weekend. So, my question is, how do Mercedes mechanics do this job?

BTW, the SO guy said in casual conversation with me that a lot of speciality tools were designed by mechanics looking for a short cut and later put into production.

KEH
 

zmotorsports

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When you do side work do you have proper insurance and licenses. Gennerly side works involves taking work that "could" go to your employer keeping you employed. Everyone will have different opinions on this I just don't see that as professional or Ethical. I don't see Lawyer and Doctors doing side work. There is no reason if you are good at this profession you can't work M-F 8-6 and earn a great living.


I would agree that taking work from your employer would not be right. However, doing work on the side if not in the same business as your employer and having all necessary business licenses, tax ID #'s and paying taxes on the money earned is hardly unethical.

Making a blanket statement saying that side work is not ethical is in unto itself not right either.

Personally, I cannot make the kind of money that I want in my full-time job. Therefore I have a side business to make up the difference. I would not be where I am today financially if I merely "settled" for what I make at my full-time job. I take offense to someone thinking that because I am working 14-16 hours a day and providing a service to my customers as well as my family that I am somehow being unethical.

Mike.
 

rev177

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I would agree that taking work from your employer would not be right. However, doing work on the side if not in the same business as your employer and having all necessary business licenses, tax ID #'s and paying taxes on the money earned is hardly unethical.

Making a blanket statement saying that side work is not ethical is in unto itself not right either.

Personally, I cannot make the kind of money that I want in my full-time job. Therefore I have a side business to make up the difference. I would not be where I am today financially if I merely "settled" for what I make at my full-time job. I take offense to someone thinking that because I am working 14-16 hours a day and providing a service to my customers as well as my family that I am somehow being unethical.

Mike.

BTW I hope you carry at least 1 million in umbrella for your side business. I have seen people lose everything.

You are not doing side work then you are running a proper business. Big DIFFERENCE. Sorry my definition of "side work" is doing something off the record without paying proper fees and taxes and having a true COB.

No offense was meant but from your description I would hardly call that side work
 

Perrorojo

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When you do side work do you have proper insurance and licenses. Gennerly side works involves taking work that "could" go to your employer keeping you employed. Everyone will have different opinions on this I just don't see that as professional or Ethical. I don't see Lawyer and Doctors doing side work. There is no reason if you are good at this profession you can't work M-F 8-6 and earn a great living.

This confuses me. Are you suggesting that me working on a Saturday and clearing a fence row for a farmer is somehow unethical when I work in an office for an RV builder? Or, are you referring to a dealership tech working on vehicles after hours unethical? the only way i could see the later being considered unethical would be if the tech was deliberatly refusing work at the dealership and referring it to his/her home.
 

rev177

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the only way i could see the later being considered unethical would be if the tech was deliberatly refusing work at the dealership and referring it to his/her home.

This and it happens alot..... Or posting on craigslist for side work than using company resources as information sources to fix cars
 
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KEH

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Rev177,

Owner of Mercedes diesel changed belt today, plus put in a new water pump, took about 1 1/2 hours, most of time spent on water pump. Car is an 05, 129,000 miles, belt had not been replaced.

He didn't use the tool he made which is like the Cornwell tool. He used the other one which I haven't seen to release the pressure, used a broomstick with a nail in the end to move the belt out of the was, also used it to install the new belt. After the belt was off, he could see how to use a 17mm wrench to release pressure. Belt job took about 15 minutes. Just goes to show the importance of proper tools and prior planning.

KEH
 

rev177

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Rev177,

Owner of Mercedes diesel changed belt today, plus put in a new water pump, took about 1 1/2 hours, most of time spent on water pump. Car is an 05, 129,000 miles, belt had not been replaced.

He didn't use the tool he made which is like the Cornwell tool. He used the other one which I haven't seen to release the pressure, used a broomstick with a nail in the end to move the belt out of the was, also used it to install the new belt. After the belt was off, he could see how to use a 17mm wrench to release pressure. Belt job took about 15 minutes. Just goes to show the importance of proper tools and prior planning.

KEH

he does get points for creativity though!!!
 

wornoutoldman

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Conover WI "God's Country"
This and it happens alot..... Or posting on craigslist for side work than using company resources as information sources to fix cars

I gotta call BS on this one. Saying this happens a lot is not an accurate statement. It is more likely that a tech is approached by a customer who suggests cutting out the dealer, and a tech dumb enough to play along should lose his job for it. As far as company resources go, information is hardly a company resource as information seeks to be free.
 

rev177

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 29, 2012
Messages
118
Location
Lino Lakes MN
rea
I gotta call BS on this one. Saying this happens a lot is not an accurate statement. It is more likely that a tech is approached by a customer who suggests cutting out the dealer, and a tech dumb enough to play along should lose his job for it. As far as company resources go, information is hardly a company resource as information seeks to be free.

Really information is free? So the shop pays for your training classes. Alldata subscription. Access to factory websites. What your saying is your free to use thus information for your own financial gain at home wow.......
 
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