Making a simple vintage style garden gate

[YesIHaveAHammer]

I was wondering about the feasibility of making a gate in approximately this style. First metal project, go easy on me, got to start somewhere.



There are a few of them in an area I visit often, made by a local blacksmith about a hundred years ago.

My metalworking experience is pretty basic but I think should be enough. I've helped others plenty with fabrication in their shops making things much larger than this, so I'm good with layout, clamping, cutting, drilling, grinding. I've made a few wooden myself gates before. I can't weld (never tried, will in future) but this is a riveted gate anyway. I only have basic homeowner type metalworking tools of my own, and I'm not looking to use this project as an excuse to spend big on equipment. I want to do it myself in my own time, but I could borrow e.g. a cut off saw and mag drill to make things a bit easier.

I have thought it through a bit - what do you think?

Material - made entirely of wrought iron (I think) flat bar, which rusts and weathers beautifully. Wrought isn't available anymore as far as I can see, so might be looking to use a modern steel perhaps with some treatment to promote weathering/rusting for a similar look.

Fastening - it's solid rivets, some with pretty large heads. They're part of the character. I'd need some way of heating these up, anvil, and cup/punches to shape them.

Structural integrity - there's no diagonal bracing, so I'm not sure what beyond simple rivet tension is keeping all the bars from pivoting on the rivets and the whole thing folding up.

Hinge eyes - can buy weld-on ones and rivet them on.


Decorative twisty things at the top each side - can't make these, need something easier. I think they do play a big part in making the whole gate look less brutally basic and ugly.


Thanks in advance.

 

[BigMike782]

It depends on how authentic you want it to be.
If you want it to look like that I would make a welded steel frame from tube and add the uprights from flat stock. Heat and hammer to give it a forged look. You might be able to make some carriage bolt heads look like rivets. Then treat with vinegar or muratic acid to make it rust.
If you want it very authentic then I don’t have much to add.

 

[YesIHaveAHammer]

Thanks.

It depends on how authentic you want it to be.

If you want it very authentic then I don’t have much to add.

It's hard to imagine and hard to put into words. I'd like it to have the same essence. I don't want it to look like a low effort new gate, that someone didn't bother to paint and has rusted in the ugly orangey way that mild steel does.

If you want it to look like that I would make a welded steel frame from tube and add the uprights from flat stock. Heat and hammer to give it a forged look.

Why, given it's made entirely of flat bar? Are you thinking hammer the tubes to make them into flat bar shape?

You might be able to make some carriage bolt heads look like rivets.

I did wonder about this. I'd want it to look good from both sides, so the nut side would be a problem. Dome nuts aren't the right shape.

treat with vinegar or muratic acid to make it rust

I'd want to replicate that smooth dark brown wrought iron as much as possible.

 

[txvwnut]

Looks easy enough to replicate, weld it together then add the rivets afterwards.

 

[MoonRise]

Texvw, he said that he does NOT have a welder.

Yeah, old school actual wrought iron isn't really available anymore.

About the closest thing that I can think of for being similar to wrought iron in weathering character would be some 'weathering steel' like CorTen. I don't know if you can get that in small flat bar sizes though. But I haven't looked either .

Actual hot rivets done well are pounded into the holes, deformed into the hole as the head(s) are hammered, and then when the HOT rivets cool down and thus shrink they lock everything together pretty tightly.

Without a forge or serious oxy-fuel torch or maybe an induction heater Coil tool, there's really no way to do the hot forged rivet construction.

Similarly, without an anvil and forge and some skill, there's really no way to make those forged tapered and curved ends to the end uprights.

Can you make a steel gate similar to that one without being a blacksmith? Sure.

Will it look the same? Probably not.

It looks so simple, but the clean simplicity is the complication if you don't have wrought iron and a blacksmith shop. And some blacksmithing skills.

 

[MoonRise]

Found a place the says that they are the ONLY supplier of actual wrought iron in the world. Located in England.

(Probably not counting artisianal blacksmiths smelting and forming their own actual wrought iron)

Wrought Iron works | Wrought Iron Gates | Topp & Co

With the skills, knowledge and experience of our craftsmen, we restore heritage metalwork and create new ironwork to build on the legacy of decorative wrought ironwork in Britain and around the world.

www.toppandco.com

 

[larry_g]

Structural integrity - there's no diagonal bracing, so I'm not sure what beyond simple rivet tension is keeping all the bars from pivoting on the rivets and the whole thing folding up.



Decorative twisty things at the top each side - can't make these, need something easier. I think they do play a big part in making the whole gate look less brutally basic and ugly.


Thanks in advance.

I think that if you study the long and short verticals that they perform the structural integrity to prevent the racking of the gate. I'd suggest that you get some lath or other strips and build the gate out of them with nails at the intersections and prove the concept.
Also search the internet for 'forged decorative iron' to find bits and pieces of stuff for decorations.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[YesIHaveAHammer]

Can you make a steel gate similar to that one without being a blacksmith? Sure.

Will it look the same? Probably not.

It looks so simple, but the clean simplicity is the complication if you don't have wrought iron and a blacksmith shop. And some blacksmithing skills.

Thanks.

I think you may have nailed it with this point. My gate risks looking just like piece of some livestock handling equipment.

Without a forge or serious oxy-fuel torch or maybe an induction heater Coil tool, there's really no way to do the hot forged rivet construction.

I think I might be able to do something with coal, either in the house stove (and run outside quick) or a makeshift small furnace outside.

 

[MoonRise]

I think I might be able to do something with coal, either in the house stove (and run outside quick) or a makeshift small furnace outside.

Please do NOT try to use a house stove as a forge and then run outside with a red hot iron rivet.

Make or buy a coal or Propane forge and use it OUTSIDE.

Right next to the anvil and the prepared workpieces.

And practice. Then practice some more. Once you think that you have it figured out, practice some more.

Then, you try working on your project.

 

[rvieceli]

Depending on where you are, it may be cost effective to find a local or reasonably nearby blacksmith to make that for you. Blacksmithing, like many things, looks deceptively easy but usually requires a bunch of practice and some skills.

I used to kid the painters at our local university that they were the most dangerous people on the campus. Because they made painting look so easy that anyone could do it as well as they did. But they had been painting for decades.

If you require the gate to look like it was made by a skilled blacksmith, then you may want to find one to make it for you.

Ron

 

[YesIHaveAHammer]

Thanks for your advices.

What had me for this gate is that I could easily make it out of modern flat bar, bolted together, and omitting the top decorations. But of course that wouldn't be the same. Aside from the decorative parts, the only blacksmith specific skill that appears to be needed is riveting, which looks within reach as something to learn.

I don't need a gate at all, but I have somewhere I could put one instead of what's currently there. I'm not set enough on it to pay someone to do it. It's the combination of liking it and having the learning and satisfaction of making it myself, that would make it worth it.

It might still happen someday.

 

[LopezBart]

Some tips:

• Don't be afraid to experiment - the parts are relatively cheap and it's worth making test pieces.
• The only "blacksmithed" parts afaict in the image are the end posts. Everything else looks like stock material.
• Steel rivets are readily available. For example: https://blacksmithbolt.com/products..._content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic
• I've upset (fastened) smaller steel rivets many times; a good hammer makes short work of it. You'll want a heavy chunk of steel as an anvil; larger rivets will need a good size hammer.
• A rivet set will really make it look better: https://kensironstore.com/products/rivet-bucking-heading-set?variant=12256378585163
• Citric acid to rust the surface, followed by linseed oil mixed w/ a bit of pine tar (often applied warm) leaves a nice rust-resistant finish that is typical of blacksmithed goods used outside.

 

[MoonRise]

Video of industrial hot Riveting

They make it look easy.

 

[Joemctag]

I think that if you study the long and short verticals that they perform the structural integrity to prevent the racking of the gate. I'd suggest that you get some lath or other strips and build the gate out of them with nails at the intersections and prove the concept.
Also search the internet for 'forged decorative iron' to find bits and pieces of stuff for decorations.

lg
no neat sig line

Forget about tthe rivets. Nobody does that anymore these days.
You can get square tube and square and flat bar from a steel supplier.
A company like King (architectural) can furnish hinges, latches and things like those curved, forged pieces to weld onto the 2 uprights.
Good luck. If you don’t weld; you can. Cut all the pieces and get it welded. You grind and paint.

 

[YesIHaveAHammer]

Forget about tthe rivets. Nobody does that anymore these days.

Oh yes I know, they would be for the aesthetic.

If you don’t weld; you can.

Yes I'm pretty sure I could pick it up, just never needed or got the initiative to learn and get the equipment. Even with riveting this, would be useful to weld on the accessory pieces.

 

[Snip's]

It's going to help if you have some blacksmithing skills, but you can get a similar result with a little fakery...
Looking at your picture you can get A36 hot roll bar stock from a local steel supplier.
3/16" thick stock and under has a pretty smooth surface finish. At 1/4" thick stock and up the finish gets that "Cast Iron" grainy finish...
There are several companies that sell items used in the construction of stair railings (balusters and spindles) ornamental iron etc...
I used Texas Metal Industries, King Architectural, L.J. Smith, but there are a bunch of these companies out there...
A lot of the metal items carried by these suppliers originate from Mexican sources and are quite good...

Got over sized ornamental forged rivets, likely produced in Mexico, for use on the construction of a custom hood built in my shop...

 

[danski0224]

I was wondering about the feasibility of making a gate in approximately this style. First metal project, go easy on me, got to start somewhere.

The curves at the top are probably the only things that can't be made without some heat. They look pretty uniform, so I imagine some sort of form was used, and possibly bent at the same time.

However, there may be an acceptable substitute from one of the several companies that sell "cast iron" ornamental metal pieces, as mentioned in other posts. I have made trellises from parts sourced from these companies and welded them together. Just the parts costs was a few hundred dollars. A piece that is entirely hand made from forged pieces will be crazy money, unless the person doing it is doing it for free.

The riveting can be done cold, using "tinners rivets" and a Pexto rivet setting tool. Note that these tinners rivets are flat on one side. If you search "tinners rivets", you will find places that sell them.

An air hammer and appropriate setting tool can also be used, aircraft tool places have rivet setting punches that fit into air hammers for setting rivets. Using this or a hammer will require a strong backing to hit against. There are a multitude of Pexto forming stakes and holders for metal work and similar tools currently made for blacksmithing.

These tinners rivets will be much easier than trying to replicate a rivet with a half dome on the opposite end, unless they can be purchased pre-formed on one end. Then you will need something with a matching profile to back up the rivet while it is set, just like in that short video above.

The tinners rivets could probably be heated with an air-acetylene torch before setting them. Someone else mentioned an induction heater.

As far as welding goes, if the intent is to have a rusty finish anyways, then you can get set up with a flux core 110V machine relatively cheaply, and much easier than trying to do the authentic forging thing. I would buy a machine that can be upgraded with a gas solenoid relatively easily.

If the gate is primarily viewed from one side, I would just weld it up and try to conceal the modern methods as much as possible. Welding opens the door to those fake stylized rivets or cut off carriage bolts.

I can see that gate easily approaching 4 figures to have it custom made, without forging anything.

 

[gahrajmahal]

Try here for parts: https://www.archirondesign.com/

Or here: https://customironworks.com/

Using my Lincoln stick welder I made these railings for inside the house using cast iron pieces and standard hot rolled steel from the local yard. I purchased special welding rods sold with the cast pieces. I plan to make some more outside railings and will use curly ends and pre made curly welded panels along with standard 2 x 2 x 1/4” square steel tubing.

 

[qdvuu]

What about IMS in San Jose? They say they have wrought iron. Also fence components.

Decorative

www.industrialmetalsupply.com

 

[nadogail]

Locally we have an Ornamental Iron Supply. Hopefully you can locate a supplier near you.

 

[dffay]

is there a Makerspace or equivalent in your area? There are a bunch, by different names maybe, in the US. Join up if possible. Some have forges and tooling and people around ready to assist.

 

[larry4406]

It's going to help if you have some blacksmithing skills, but you can get a similar result with a little fakery...
Looking at your picture you can get A36 hot roll bar stock from a local steel supplier.
3/16" thick stock and under has a pretty smooth surface finish. At 1/4" thick stock and up the finish gets that "Cast Iron" grainy finish...
There are several companies that sell items used in the construction of stair railings (balusters and spindles) ornamental iron etc...
I used Texas Metal Industries, King Architectural, L.J. Smith, but there are a bunch of these companies out there...
A lot of the metal items carried by these suppliers originate from Mexican sources and are quite good...

Got over sized ornamental forged rivets, likely produced in Mexico, for use on the construction of a custom hood built in my shop...

Nicely done!

Looks like you have quite the metal fab shop!

 

[y'sguy]

I believe you could make all this with cold work. It would require some practice and patience. All cold riveted too. It does look like it would need a diagonal but again, just make it. The top scrolls can be cut on a good band saw or maybe a good jigsaw. All the ornamental work is done with a good, heavy hammer. Use some flat stock and practice. It can be a very satisfying experience. The one shown doesn't look welded to me. The correct rivet-to-hole size ratio is possible. I have cold-bent iron with a homemade bending jig, a good bench vice and a jig. Make a paper pattern to follow. The one example you showed is from flat plate and hammered, easy! Here's something I made with little welding experience, but all cold-bent. It was my first time to try this sort of thing too.

 

[PugetDude]

You can replicate that look fairly easily with standard A36 hot rolled flat bar. There are a variety of ways to do the rivets. Easiest way would be to buy dome head rivets the same length as 2x the thickness of your bar stock, clamp the pieces tight and plug weld the back side. You could also buy short 1/4" grade 2 carriage bolts, clamp them in a vise, heat up the heads with a propane torch, drop them into a hole in your anvil (or anvil shaped object )and peen the heads with a ball pein hammer to remove the grade marks. Takes about a minute per bolt, heat one while you are beating another. Now you have hand-forged "rivets" that you can peen hot or cold or just put a thin nut in the back side and peen it bit... Grade 2 is very soft steel. Drill through holes with a 1/4" bit then open up the front pieces to allow you to to drive the square shank in for an interference fit. Or take the corners off with an angle grinder or ******* file. Either way will work.
The ornamental bits can be heated in a temporary homemade forge (propane weed burner and a few concrete patio pavers), or with an oxy-fuel torch. Form the basic shape with a ball pein hammer, then bend the curve in a simple jig (I would recommend a trailer ball mounted on a receiver hitch and a wooden wedge block...refine the shape with a hammer and a piece of 2" pipe clamped in a vise. )

Bodgery at it's finest, with simple hand tools.

Age the finished gate with a mixture of hydrogen peroxide, vinegar and salt, applied with a spray bottle. Instant 20 year patina.

I have done all of the processes described above in my 45 year plus metalforming journey, most when I was young and broke and didn't know what i didn't know...Don't be afraid to try different ways of doing things; you don't need a fully equipped shop full of expensive tools for a simple project like this. And remember you're not striving for historical perfection, just the illusion of historical perfection.

Good luck. Post your progress!


EDIT
Found a couple of pictures...