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Making an Aluminum car under tray

N_Jay

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Crazy question time.
I saw this company that makes aluminum car/engine under trays to replace (enhance) the factory plastic lower engine/cassis covers.
1766004418690.png
They don't make one for my car, so I was wondering how hard it would be to create one (have someone create one)
My plastic panels are in sad shape and Porsche wants way too much for new ones.
There are 5 separate pieces, and none look too convoluted.

Any ideas or suggestions.
 
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Brianf60

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Define “way to much”.
I’m this could easily turn out like every project I do and take way more time and cost more than it would to purchase ready made. Of course there is a lot of satisfaction in making it yourself…
 
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N_Jay

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It adds up to between $1000 and $1300 to replace the plastic pieces with new plastic pieces.
I had thought of trying to do it one section at a time.
Part of the problem is that most of the difficult shapes are where the pieces come together.
New pieces could be mostly flat with fairly simple bends, but trying to make a metal piece that interfaces with the adjacent plastic pieces will be difficult.
I would need to learn a CAD program, or find someone who knows CAD to build a role to send to "SendCutSend" or another fabrication company.
 

phred

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You realize that kind of fab work is expensive right. Typical shops here charge between $75 and $120 an hour for custom work. $1500 is only about 12 hours labor and you still need materials. Unless you can fab them yourself the factory pieces will be much less expensive.
 

danielbuck

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sheet metal and tin snips. skip doing the decorative vent slots. I doubt they are needed. If anything, replace those cut slots with longer bead rolls, will strengthen the piece and keep it from flapping in the wind.
 

RoninB4

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I would need to learn a CAD program, or find someone who knows CAD to build a role to send to "SendCutSend" or another fabrication company.
-The pieces are fairly simple, so are the bends. It would be a simple matter of sending drawings or CAD files to a few shops for a quote. What you may not have considered is the most important aspect, obtaining the dimensions so the panels fit properly. As someone suggested, your existing panels could be used for some of those dimensions but in going from plastic to metal there may be differences because plastic can flex to accommodate inaccuracies from the factory (which do happen even with Porsche) but metal is less flexible.

-Using the existing panels to create Carboard Assisted Design (alternate CAD) is a common practice that's used for test mockup but needs to be rigid or reinforced enough not to sag/bend while doing fitment. A tape measure (called a yo-yo in shops) is adequate enough for many of the less fussy dimensions, +/- 1/16" tolerance is probably good enough. What DOES need to be more accurate is the mounting holes, the tolerance previously mentioned will either not be good enough or the holes will need to be much larger to accommodate the inaccuracies. So even if you could obtain the dimensions for the mounting holes there remains the question of how are you going to accurately locate those holes in the cardboard? Accurate layout on the cardboard? Even the line thickness (line weight) will be adding to the inaccuracy, which doesn't seem like much but it is a factor. Now you have to create a hole exactly where the lines cross. How will you know if you started that hole in the exact location of your layout? When something doesn't fit properly is it your dimensions, your layout, or how you located the hole/feature/bend/radius that's off? The level of fitment is beauty in the eye of the beholder.

-Is cardboard important? If you're not going to use carboard (or some other material) for mockup testing then you better have a lot of confidence in your dimensions. Could all this be done with other methods? Yes, but just by the OP asking the original question it indicates that the OP doesn't have the skills/experience to attempt using those other methods. Learn a CAD program? I always try to encourage this but there's a steep learning curve for most CAD programs and there's plenty of designers/engineers that (admittedly) aren't very proficient with the sheet metal modules in those programs unless they use those modules on a regular basis. I've been using CAD in a professional capacity since 2006 and I still need a few minutes to re-familiarize myself with the module when needed, the rules for sheet metal are different than solid modeling.

-What will the shop creating the panels want? Some use CAD models, some use DXF drawing/files, and some are ok with hand sketches on notebook paper. What will be important with any of those is how professional they look, crude/incomplete drawings get crude/incomplete results. Tolerances also need to be established for every shape, hole, or bend. Failure to establish this will result in panels that may resemble what you want but will likely not fit well. Does that sound overly fussy? The shop doesn't have the responsibility to interpret the vagaries of your intentions, they're only responsible for approaching the numbers provided. How close should that be? That's the point of tolerances, they specify when a feature does or doesn't matter. The shop then quotes the price accordingly. If the OP, or anybody else, would like further info just ask. I'm not the last word on anything but this isn't my first rodeo and I can tell you it's not plug-n-play unless you make it to be so. Apologies for the long winded posting.
 
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gte718p

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It adds up to between $1000 and $1300 to replace the plastic pieces with new plastic pieces.
I had thought of trying to do it one section at a time.
Part of the problem is that most of the difficult shapes are where the pieces come together.
New pieces could be mostly flat with fairly simple bends, but trying to make a metal piece that interfaces with the adjacent plastic pieces will be difficult.
I would need to learn a CAD program, or find someone who knows CAD to build a role to send to "SendCutSend" or another fabrication company.
If you knew CAD, and if you had the equipment, it is a relatively easy project. Since you don't it is going to cost way more than just buying the OEM. I would guess at least 3x the cost by the time you factor in measuring tools, software, shipping, and failed prototypes. It will also take just under an eternity if you are learning CAD from scratch.

That being said, it is fun. It is not easy, but it is also not hard, especially in the world of photogrammetry and 3D scanning. Depending on how complex the bottom of the car is, I could probably knock it out in a couple of hours. There is still a lot of art that goes into sheet metal bending. It could be a real hassle; it could be very easy.

You should absolutely do it. You will end up with something unique and a new skill set.
 

SusKatCas

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Give careful thought to managing galvanic corrosion if you use aluminum.

Be cautious about choking off cooling air.

You may want to consider using a fiberglass backing to repair your existing plastics. You see people does this with motorcycle fairing panels. What is your goal function? Resto-mod? Restoration?
 
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N_Jay

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My goals are:
1) Replace broken parts.
2) Not have to replace them again.
3) End up with a better solution than factory.
 

gte718p

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My goals are:
1) Replace broken parts.
2) Not have to replace them again.
3) End up with a better solution than factory.
With item three, you just upped the difficulty significantly.

It is absolutely possible to be better than the OEM. They had to design for manufacturing for 100s of thousands of units. However, even a relative minor part has hundreds of hours of design in it. It went through dozens of hours of CFD to determine how it affected noise, aerodynamics, and cooling.
 
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N_Jay

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With item three, you just upped the difficulty significantly.

It is absolutely possible to be better than the OEM. They had to design for manufacturing for 100s of thousands of units. However, even a relative minor part has hundreds of hours of design in it. It went through dozens of hours of CFD to determine how it affected noise, aerodynamics, and cooling.
Well, better in;
Less likely to crack (might dent)
Better protection for the components above.
Similar aerodynamics (Most of the outer surface is flat)
Similar cooling (Have the factory parts to replicate venting) (There is almost none)
 

tarbellb

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The fact that you have the pieces is a huge benefit

Remove them, place on top of the aluminum sheet and trace.

A decent jig saw and grinder can net pretty good results for cutting and shaping

The only tough fab item are the bends, if any. That can be crudely done with wood and weight or rigid slot and leverage

Then you'll just have to tweak for rattles and isolation, could be as easy as rubber grommets
 
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Jacko264

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What thickness of aluminium are you thinking about using ?
you say most of the plastic ones is flat but is there strengthening rigidity above the flat side .
If so you will need strengthening to stop vibration with the aluminium.
Having said that it does not look to bad to make the parts
Graham
 
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N_Jay

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What thickness of aluminium are you thinking about using ?
you say most of the plastic ones is flat but is there strengthening rigidity above the flat side .
If so you will need strengthening to stop vibration with the aluminium.
Having said that it does not look to bad to make the parts
Graham
The company I posted used 0.063" but does not specify the type of aluminum. (I'll take recommendations.)
 

tarbellb

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Its less of a skid plate and more for aero I believe

But if youre going through the trouble, a little added strength isnt a bad idea
 
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N_Jay

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Guessing they have their reasons,
Maybe to hit their desired market price point.

0.063" is very close to 14G
2.3 mm is about 11G

IIs 12G hard to work by hand?
 

Bigblue&Goldie

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You better have it secured and insulated at every contact point or your car is going to sound like a dumpster every time you hit a bump.
 

Brianf60

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You can do a lot for $1,300. As mentioned you should start by making the panels with card or poster board. That will give you a good idea of how the layout with go with only simple bends and cuts. Is it fair to assume that the current plastic ones are more complex shapes than the example you have shown?
 
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N_Jay

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You better have it secured and insulated at every contact point or your car is going to sound like a dumpster every time you hit a bump.
I kind of like the idea of using a rubber gromet at each attachment screw hole.

I think I may take a shot at just replacing the front piece first with a hand formed panel.
Not this one?


cco90v_18-09-32.png
That is in top of the engine, under the rear deck.

If I tear that one up, the car will probably not be repairable. ;)
 
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N_Jay

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You can do a lot for $1,300. As mentioned you should start by making the panels with card or poster board. That will give you a good idea of how the layout with go with only simple bends and cuts. Is it fair to assume that the current plastic ones are more complex shapes than the example you have shown?
Here are 4 of the five pieces.
 
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N_Jay

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Lot going on there. My guess, you can't touch that in aluminum for $600.
The three middle pieces could be one big one, maybe with a removable access panel.
They are mostly flat except where the go up for an attachment point.
I figured I would makes spacers to bring the attachments down to the base level.
 

tarbellb

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Yeah the spacers or stand-offs are going to be the tricky part

Without the ability to weld getting those to stay in place while assembling and disassembling will be very hard

The shapes and sizes aren't terrible, you could probably buy a full 4x8 sheet of 12g and get everything needed

I would say at the end of the day you likely won't save any money over stock, probably spend more. But you'll have potentially more protection depending on your fab skills?

good luck
 
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N_Jay

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Most of the pieces are held on with plastic nuts threaded on to a coarsely threaded stud. Hence why the panels have recessed areas so teh stud is safe from being shaved off.
My spacer idea would be a small "box" tube with the nut inside holding the spacer on, and a hole with a "U-Clip" nut to hold a standard automotive panel screw.

The rest of the attachments are mostly standard auto body trim screws into other U-Clip type nuts. Standoffs form them (if needed) would be on a case by case basis depending on spacing.
 
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